Liverpool FC Forum

by **lakes10** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:19 am

the thing is this.

ok we are doing goingto make 4th....but do we need 5th and the EL

Its something like 20 games, we dont have the team that can take another 20 games, it just too much.

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:07 am

Scottbot wrote:Mags, where I struggle in this whole debate, and i'm not gonna use words like pro's and anti's and all that bollo..x coz it does my head in but answer me this. I've watched us play time and time again again this season and thought 'what the fook is he doing', Why have we started with this line-up, it's ridiculous, what's he doing in there? I've lost count of the amount of times i've been watching a game (on my own!) and I'm sat there shouting at the box at the top of my voice "make a sub Rafa, NOW! What are ya doing!?". Now i'm not talking about money available, transfer budgets, owners this or owners that, or even whether Rafa has spent wisely with the money he has. I'm talking about basic and often blatant errors (in my opinion) from the manager with the personnel he has available, with his tactics at the start of the match, with his adjustments during the game and most importantly with the style of football we are playing. SURELY YOU HAVE FELT SOME OF THE SAME THINGS WATHCING FOOTBALL THIS SEASON? I don't fully understand why posters who are fans of the manager seem to feel (for the most part) like they cannot criticize the manager, it's almost as if they are refusing to acknowledge problems that are there for all to see, (facts if you like!) and I think that contributes to many of the rows that happen in this place. We've gone completely stagnant mate, it's the spitting image of Houllier's last season at the club, and while Rafa still has the benefit of the doubt from many fans (it is the Liverpool way after all, I have still sung his name at the games i've been to this year, and will do so again with others around me regardless), I think it is likely his rep will reach the lows of Geds should he have another season at the helm. It feels like he is stubbornly clinging on (much as Houllier did) with no real clue as to how to turn things around. If feels and looks like the players have lost faith and I don't honestly believe that we can bounce back next season with an effort to rival (or get close to) the last time around.

I know my patience has run out with Rafa. I respect the views of those that still want him here as manager but I think the time for making excuses is long over. We must expect much more from our manager than we are getting this season, bottom line.

by **tonyeh** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:25 am

Scottbot wrote:I don't fully understand why posters who are fans of the manager seem to feel (for the most part) like they cannot criticize the manager, it's almost as if they are refusing to acknowledge problems that are there for all to see, (facts if you like!) and I think that contributes to many of the rows that happen in this place.

It's fear Scott.

Fear of what may be next.

Fear to rock the boat too much.

Fear to admit that things just aren't working out with Benitez.

Fear of making a clean break.

And probably a little of bit fear to admit that the opinion once held of Benitez wasn't that correct after all and that, in fact he just isn't the strategic and tactical genius some thought him to be.

...and I mean none of the above in a disrespectful manner. It's difficult to make the break when the horizon is cloudy.

Personally, I've lost count of the WTF moments I've had when watching Benitez at work. Over the years he has made some truly bizarre decisions (decisions a 10 yr old playing FIFA wouldn't make!), as you have rightly pointed out and I cannot believe for a second that even the most ardent Ra-Ra-Rafa fan hasn't had multiple WTF moments too.

The guy's an incredible liability AFAIC.

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:42 am

Scottbot wrote:I don't fully understand why posters who are fans of the manager seem to feel (for the most part) like they cannot criticize the manager, it's almost as if they are refusing to acknowledge problems that are there for all to see, (facts if you like!) and I think that contributes to many of the rows that happen in this place.

A lot of the rows come from the fact that a lot of posters on here simply don't like the man. Some of the names that the manager has been called on here and some of the things that have been said about him have been nothing short of a disgrace at times.

Listen I've criticised the manager a lot this season. He's had a bad season but that doesn't mean that I want the man to go. Its obvious he has made mistakes and he will do in the future but to my mind he will get more right than wrong and will act with the club s interest in heart. That in a nut shell is why he has my support. Unfortunately there's a whole generation of people now who have never seen Liverpool win the league. Perhaps this plays a part in the lack of patience for some of them but I do believe in our current situation he is the best man to push us forwards.

The worst thing about this season for me is that the performance of some our 'support' has been even worse than some of those on the pitch and more agenda driven than the media.

by **lakes10** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:55 am

stmichael wrote:
Scottbot wrote:I don't fully understand why posters who are fans of the manager seem to feel (for the most part) like they cannot criticize the manager, it's almost as if they are refusing to acknowledge problems that are there for all to see, (facts if you like!) and I think that contributes to many of the rows that happen in this place.

A lot of the rows come from the fact that a lot of posters on here simply don't like the man. Some of the names that the manager has been called on here and some of the things that have been said about him have been nothing short of a disgrace at times.

Listen I've criticised the manager a lot this season. He's had a bad season but that doesn't mean that I want the man to go. Its obvious he has made mistakes and he will do in the future but to my mind he will get more right than wrong and will act with the club s interest in heart. That in a nut shell is why he has my support. Unfortunately there's a whole generation of people now who have never seen Liverpool win the league. Perhaps this plays a part in the lack of patience for some of them but I do believe in our current situation he is the best man to push us forwards.

The worst thing about this season for me is that the performance of some our 'support' has been even worse than some of those on the pitch and more agenda driven than the media.

my views on Rafa haveonly ever been based in football things and there about the man himself, he seems a nice guy who is very good at his job overseas.

but when it come to him being the manager of our club he falls down in some big areas, subs, buying players, talking to the media, not talking to players, view on the prem, putting the CL first all the time, team tactics.
all the above it what i base my views on and due to that he should ot be our manager, in fact he should not have been our manager about 3 years ago......in fact he should never have been given the job in the first place due to his lack of understanding of the prem.

GH got the sack due to not winning the prem, Rafa was given the job, in a interview the day before Rafa was put in place as the manager, Perry told us that GH said he need another two years to win the prem, as a club liverpool could not wait that long and that is why Rafa was givein the job as thel feel he could win it sooner.

by **Ben Patrick** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:55 am

Where are these people that are just dont like the manager ?
Heimdall is the only one i know.

Mick the reason people are unhappy with Rafa is because of results and the way we are performing.
Nothing to do with the man as a person.
I wouldnt care if he was a horrible c'nt if he was getting results.

He seems like a decent enough fella if i was asked, but i genuinely dont care about that.
Just the way he is mismanaging our club.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:01 pm

What happens when Rafa is here for next season ? People talk as if he is going to go where as IMO I think next season he will be our manager still . Will people let him start the season fresh and give him a chance or will some still demand the sack even before first game has finished

by **Greavesie** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:04 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:What happens when Rafa is here for next season ? People talk as if he is going to go where as IMO I think next season he will be our manager still . Will people let him start the season fresh and give him a chance or will some still demand the sack even before first game has finished

Benny there's six years to judge the man on. It's pretty difficult to wipe the slate clean after this season and season's passed and go into the season with re-newed optimism. To be perfectly honest even after transfers and things I just don't trust Rafa to take us further. I do not believe he will ever win the league so it's a bit of a non-starter for me.

by **lakes10** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:06 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:What happens when Rafa is here for next season ? People talk as if he is going to go where as IMO I think next season he will be our manager still . Will people let him start the season fresh and give him a chance or will some still demand the sack even before first game has finished

not sure if he will be here next season or not, if you had asked me 2 weeks ago i would of said he is 100% gone......not saked but walked to another job.

but now some of the things i am hearing is that he might not now have another job lined up and talks have ended.

so unless he is sack there is now every chance he will be here.

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:10 pm

So greavsie your going to ignore the improvements on previous seasons then or just concentrate on this season and your not going to support him if he is our manager next season.

by **Owzat** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:13 pm

I don't believe he should be here, for me it may just take us further away from where we want to be than we are already if he stays. But I do appreciate he may still be here, that said is there any point continuing as we are? My last PC worked, I had to switch the switch off at the back for 10 seconds before booting it up and it was an old version of windows so I decided it was time to buy a new PC rather than try to upgrade Windows or muddle through and put up with it. At the end of the day it's been grief since up until the last 3-4 months when I'm now anticipating more grief at the slightest noise or problem - like when the fusebox tripped off and I thought the PC had just shut itself down instantly. So for me sticking with Rafa might be like that, out of date, struggling to work, useable but not ideal and frankly had to be replaced as it was never a long term solution

by **Greavesie** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:14 pm

dont get me wrong Benny, I'll always support him while he's here and if he moves on I hope he wins the lot, I really do. I just don't think he's suited to the English game and that's his downfall. Last season was absolutely incredible and if he could do that consistently then great, but he hasn't has he? Last season was one in six, that season is actually the anomalae in his tenure at LFC. I actually think when Rafa sets up to win a game and attack the oppo he can win and win well, but he insists on not taking risks to win games too often, 2 DMs all the time and one striker. One game that really springs to mind last season was against Wigan, we had 8 or 9 attacking players on the pitch at one time and eventually won the game, absolutely incredible and something Rafa should so more often when the oppo are camped, but he doesnt.

The tactics stink Benny, he won't win the league playing like that. His stubborness will see him out of the door.

If he is here next season then he will still have my support but when things go wrong it won't be unexpected and that's probably what hurts the most

by **lakes10** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:16 pm

i think you have got to aslk yourself why every fan of every other club in the prem would love us to keep Rafa as our manager.

at the end of the day it comes down to this.........would would you like us to win the most

The Prem

or

CL

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:22 pm

Every fan of evey other club ?! Are you sure lakes ? Or are you hyperboling when it's prob just the mancs as I'm sure the BS don't like him at the club as he regulary finishes above the bs and beats them on a regular ocassion

by **account deleted by request** » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:23 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:What happens when Rafa is here for next season ? People talk as if he is going to go where as IMO I think next season he will be our manager still . Will people let him start the season fresh and give him a chance or will some still demand the sack even before first game has finished

I support the team not the manager, so it will be business as usual as far as I am concerned if he stays. I will praise him when he gets things right, criticise him when I think he is wrong and support the players.

I don't have any sort of grudge against Rafa, I think he is a good manager, but like Houllier just not quite good enough. I WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY DELIGHTED IF HE PROVED ME WRONG and we won the league next season, but I don't believe he will.

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