Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:21 pm

tonyeh wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
maguskwt wrote:The squad last season played superb football and challenged for the title all the way.

You know...this just isn't true Mags. Liverpool payed superb football ONLY for a short period in last seasons run in. It generally wasn't THAT great for the rest of the time. We scraped by in a lot of games and drew 11 largely against opposition Liverpool could have (should have) beaten comfortably.

Man U and Chelsea scraped for 1-0 wins all the time...

It doesn't matter what Man U and Chelsea do, though Mags. What matters is the assessment of what Liverpool does and last season, we didn't play that well for the better part of it.

What's truly infuriating is that after the Real Madrid CL game, the team went into a genuine attack minded spell of games that produced some of the best football I'd seen in years from a Liverpool side, proving to everyone that they have it in them and that they could beat the best (with multiple goals) on any given day.

This season Liverpool have reverted back to the ultra boring, conservative, cowardly, one demsional, tedious performances that I thought were a thing of the past.

That's what matters...not what Man U does.

Spot on.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:26 pm

tonyeh wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
maguskwt wrote:The squad last season played superb football and challenged for the title all the way.

You know...this just isn't true Mags. Liverpool payed superb football ONLY for a short period in last seasons run in. It generally wasn't THAT great for the rest of the time. We scraped by in a lot of games and drew 11 largely against opposition Liverpool could have (should have) beaten comfortably.

Man U and Chelsea scraped for 1-0 wins all the time...

It doesn't matter what Man U and Chelsea do, though Mags. What matters is the assessment of what Liverpool does and last season, we didn't play that well for the better part of it.

What's truly infuriating is that after the Real Madrid CL game, the team went into a genuine attack minded spell of games that produced some of the best football I'd seen in years from a Liverpool side, proving to everyone that they have it in them and that they could beat the best (with multiple goals) on any given day.

This season Liverpool have reverted back to the ultra boring, conservative, cowardly, one demsional, tedious performances that I thought were a thing of the past.

That's what matters...not what Man U does.

Yes of course... I was merely pointing out to you that championship winning teams scrape by alot of the times and that's how you tide over the team's bad spells because YOU mentioned that we scrape by at times last season. I then pointed out to you that we had a goal difference in the end higher than the championship winning Mancs, in the process countering YOUR POINT about my claim about the team playing superb football not being true. No team ever could play superb football all throughout the season. Considering that it can be said that we played superb football last season. Gosh one has to keep reminding people what they have said on here unbelievable...

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:30 pm

I agree we did at times.

So why doesnt he set out to do it again this season ?

We have played a system and a formation that is mostly intent on controlling the game and stopping the opposition playing.
We worry far too much about other teams and disregard the fact that we have better players than most of them.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:39 pm

Like LFC use to say I refer you to my previous post...

by **tonyeh** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:41 pm

maguskwt wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
tonyeh wrote:
maguskwt wrote:The squad last season played superb football and challenged for the title all the way.

You know...this just isn't true Mags. Liverpool payed superb football ONLY for a short period in last seasons run in. It generally wasn't THAT great for the rest of the time. We scraped by in a lot of games and drew 11 largely against opposition Liverpool could have (should have) beaten comfortably.

Man U and Chelsea scraped for 1-0 wins all the time...

It doesn't matter what Man U and Chelsea do, though Mags. What matters is the assessment of what Liverpool does and last season, we didn't play that well for the better part of it.

What's truly infuriating is that after the Real Madrid CL game, the team went into a genuine attack minded spell of games that produced some of the best football I'd seen in years from a Liverpool side, proving to everyone that they have it in them and that they could beat the best (with multiple goals) on any given day.

This season Liverpool have reverted back to the ultra boring, conservative, cowardly, one demsional, tedious performances that I thought were a thing of the past.

That's what matters...not what Man U does.

Yes of course... I was merely pointing out to you that championship winning teams scrape by alot of the times and that's how you tide over the team's bad spells because YOU mentioned that we scrape by at times last season.

It still remains meaningless though Mags. Title winning teams don't win by playing boring predictable football, with a "try not to lose" attitude. It just doesn't come off, even with scrappy 1 nil victories and huge amounts of luck on one's side, like Liverpool had last season. It was Liverpool's to lose last year and they did so, because by and large, their attitude was wrong. "Wait and See" may work well over two legs, as we saw last week against Benfica, but in the Premiership it's a fools game.

We NEED a bit of the Man U "Gung Ho" in our game, instead of the wishy washy kicking up dust take we have at the moment.

It's the attitude instilled in the team by the manager that has been the number one undoing in this Liverpool side and the infuriating thing, as I've said earlier, is that it doesn't HAVE to be that way.

You talk about goal difference, but that difference came about from the two or three months of great footy that Liverpool played in the good period that I mentioned. before that we were losing out on GD to both Chelsea and Man U all the way.

If Liverpool had played all last season like they played the last three months of it, they would have stormed the Premiership. they may have lost more games, but they would have won teh premiership with relative ease...of that I have no doubt.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:46 pm

s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:you know what... I give up on this place... I don't even care if Rafa walks or gets sacked and we get a new manager anymore... let's just see what this new manager can do with the current squad under our current situation next season, shall we?

I am sure that whoever we get (even fat sam) will do better in the league than we have achieved this season. Heimdall on a bad day could have got more out of this squad in the league mate

The problem is not can we improve (because I have no doubts that we can), the problem is how much will our rivals improve BECAUSE they have CL FOOTBALL the money it generates and the prestige it brings to attract better players.

and our rivals improve because they can spend money...(City wasn't in the CL and they out-attracted us on Barry and Tevez).. we have to look for new investors/ buyers, refinancing the loan or whatever :censored:

that's happening. It's like we were saying Tevez/Barry won't go to City they don't got CL football... and lo and behold... they didn't want to come to us and instead went to City. The owners have really screwed us big time... not only have they not provided the funds, they are now only interested to make a profit by the sale of our club... God knows what kind of new owners we will end up with... so yeah please go ahead and practice blaming the manager because you guys will be doing that alot from now on for years to come...

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:56 pm

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:you know what... I give up on this place... I don't even care if Rafa walks or gets sacked and we get a new manager anymore... let's just see what this new manager can do with the current squad under our current situation next season, shall we?

I am sure that whoever we get (even fat sam) will do better in the league than we have achieved this season. Heimdall on a bad day could have got more out of this squad in the league mate

The problem is not can we improve (because I have no doubts that we can), the problem is how much will our rivals improve BECAUSE they have CL FOOTBALL the money it generates and the prestige it brings to attract better players.

and our rivals improve because they can spend money... we have to look for new investors/ buyers, refinancing the loan or whatever that's happening. The owners have really screwed us big time... not only have they not provided the funds, they are now only interested to make a profit by the sale of our club... God knows what kind of new owners we will end up with... so yeah please go ahead and practice blaming the manager because you guys will be doing that alot from now on for years to come...

It's funny you can't see what everyone else sees, even Arbeloa said in a recent interview (ESPN Soccernet) -

"Former Liverpool defender Alvaro Arbeloa has branded Rafa Benitez's management style as "a bit robotic" and maintains that the Spaniard is not keen to take risks...saying that Benitez's style as a manager is one of containment and believes that he is unwilling to take risks when the side need it."

In your world his bad selection, man management and decision making is all down to the owners lack of cash.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:59 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:It's funny you can't see what everyone else sees, even Arbeloa said in a recent interview (ESPN Soccernet) -

"Former Liverpool defender Alvaro Arbeloa has branded Rafa Benitez's management style as "a bit robotic" and maintains that the Spaniard is not keen to take risks...saying that Benitez's style as a manager is one of containment and believes that he is unwilling to take risks when the side need it."

In your world his bad selection, man management and decision making is all down to the owners lack of cash.

It's funny you can't see what our key players are saying... both Gerrard and Torres were saying we need more investments in players...

And it's also funny that alot of you couldn't see the root of the problem...

by **tonyeh** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:02 pm

But that is FAR from the be all end all of Liverpool's problems.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:07 pm

maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:you know what... I give up on this place... I don't even care if Rafa walks or gets sacked and we get a new manager anymore... let's just see what this new manager can do with the current squad under our current situation next season, shall we?

I am sure that whoever we get (even fat sam) will do better in the league than we have achieved this season. Heimdall on a bad day could have got more out of this squad in the league mate

The problem is not can we improve (because I have no doubts that we can), the problem is how much will our rivals improve BECAUSE they have CL FOOTBALL the money it generates and the prestige it brings to attract better players.

and our rivals improve because they can spend money... we have to look for new investors/ buyers, refinancing the loan or whatever that's happening. The owners have really screwed us big time... not only have they not provided the funds, they are now only interested to make a profit by the sale of our club... God knows what kind of new owners we will end up with... so yeah please go ahead and practice blaming the manager because you guys will be doing that alot from now on for years to come...

How much did the mancs spend this season?

How much did Arsenal spend this season ?

How much did Chelsea spend this season?

They are still all up there challenging, we spent more NET as all the rafapologists seem to want to talk about, than the Mancs or Arsenal.

Chelsea bought one player
The mancs lost Ronaldo and Tevez and replaced them with a winger off Wigan and a freeby.

Arsenal lost their star striker and Toure

We lost Alonso and Arbeloa, replaced them with a £20million player and a £18million player ...... and we are now 15 points BEHIND Arsenal, a team we finished 14 points INFRONT of last season. Thats a 29 point swing in one season! Feck all to do with money and ALL to do with the manager not getting the best out of the team.

Nothing to do with the manager my ar$e. When Hicks or Gillett start picking the team, training them and deciding on the tactics I will blame them ..... until then I blame the manager.

The fecking truth is that its not Citeh/Villa/Spurs that have come up to our level, but that we have slipped down to their level.

by **maguskwt** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:14 pm

Like I've said Ferguson have spent 100 million NET in a 6 year period from 2000-2006 AFTER they won the treble... we as a rebuilding team spent less in 6 years... no need to get emotional about it really...

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:20 pm

Not getting emotional mate, just trying to knock some sense into you.

We finished 3 points behind the mancs last season, since when they have lost two of their best players (one was World player of the year) so talking about things that happened TEN FECKING YEARS AGO isn't quite as relevant as what has happened this season imo.

by **Penguins** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:23 pm

s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:
s@int wrote:
maguskwt wrote:you know what... I give up on this place... I don't even care if Rafa walks or gets sacked and we get a new manager anymore... let's just see what this new manager can do with the current squad under our current situation next season, shall we?

I am sure that whoever we get (even fat sam) will do better in the league than we have achieved this season. Heimdall on a bad day could have got more out of this squad in the league mate

The problem is not can we improve (because I have no doubts that we can), the problem is how much will our rivals improve BECAUSE they have CL FOOTBALL the money it generates and the prestige it brings to attract better players.

and our rivals improve because they can spend money... we have to look for new investors/ buyers, refinancing the loan or whatever that's happening. The owners have really screwed us big time... not only have they not provided the funds, they are now only interested to make a profit by the sale of our club... God knows what kind of new owners we will end up with... so yeah please go ahead and practice blaming the manager because you guys will be doing that alot from now on for years to come...

How much did the mancs spend this season?

How much did Arsenal spend this season ?

How much did Chelsea spend this season?

They are still all up there challenging, we spent more NET as all the rafapologists seem to want to talk about, than the Mancs or Arsenal.

Chelsea bought one player
The mancs lost Ronaldo and Tevez and replaced them with a winger off Wigan and a freeby.

Arsenal lost their star striker and Toure

We lost Alonso and Arbeloa, replaced them with a £20million player and a £18million player ...... and we are now 15 points BEHIND Arsenal, a team we finished 14 points INFRONT of last season. Thats a 29 point swing in one season! Feck all to do with money and ALL to do with the manager not getting the best out of the team.

Nothing to do with the manager my ar$e. When Hicks or Gillett start picking the team, training them and deciding on the tactics I will blame them ..... until then I blame the manager.

It isn't what you spend in 1 summer, it is

!) what you spend over several years
2) what you are able to spend up front on each player, ie getting 1st choice players
3) it is what squad you have built up over several years

IMO the squad Rafa inherited was pisspoor and I'll stand by that in wet and dry. I believe more in the 5th place after 38 games to decide if we had quality in the side than a magical cup competiton we were out of so many times just to get back in.

Yeah, Gerrard was there but not much else to build on. Owen had made up his mind to leave and he wasn't changing his mind.
Carra wasn't even close to the player he became after Rafa arrived. Hamann, Hyppia, Finnan, all around 30.
Dudek, Traore, Smicer just awful not to mention all the deadwood in Cisse, Diouf, Cheyrou, Diao and sicknote Kewell.

Arsenal had the invincibles when Rafa came.
Manure still had a great spine which had won so many trophies
Rooney, Ferdinand, Keane, Scholes, Ronaldo etc were all there.
Chelski had just got a new manager with 200 million to spend.
Rafa got 8 million to spend...

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:32 pm

There comes a point where you have to say WE HAVE SPENT MORE THAN THE MANCS NET since Rafa took over. That was 6 fecking years ago. In twenty fecking years are you still going to be moaning that the mancs outspent us in the year 2000 ?

We finished 3 points behind them last year we are 17 points behind them now. That is not because they have spent a fortune in 2000 its because our team has not played to the standard it should be able to. That is because Rafa has not got the best out of our players...... not because the mancs have spent £300million this fecking year, last fecking year ot 10 fecking years ago.

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:35 pm

s@int wrote:There comes a point where you have to say WE HAVE SPENT MORE THAN THE MANCS NET since Rafa took over. That was 6 fecking years ago. In twenty fecking years are you still going to be moaning that the mancs outspent us in the year 2000 ?

We finished 3 points behind them last year we are 17 points behind them now. That is not because they have spent a fortune in 2000 its because our team has not played to the standard it should be able to. That is because Rafa has not got the best out of our players...... not because the mancs have spent £300million this fecking year, last fecking year ot 10 fecking years ago.

Its as straight forward as that.

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