Liverpool FC Forum

by **metalhead** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:56 pm

I don't usually start alot of topics on here, but after watching the Manchester United game I started thinking about how we can be more positive and change things.

First of all, Mancs looked really average, they had a couple of shots, but no clear cut chance! That said, you start thinking that why we did not win the bloody game when we had our opposing team not playing to their standard! Well, IMO its a couple of things. First, I disagree to anyone who says that Lucas and Mascherano rise in these type of games because they cover more ground and break up play! I disagree with it because we already have two players who do the samething, and two players who can't keep possession properly. We don't need players who lose the ball, we need players who can keep the ball and string few passes together. Today, in midfield we lost alot of the ball, Lucas and Mascherano were the culprit as well as Kuyt. look at Arsenal for example, they don't have players who cover more ground than Lucas or Mascherano, but they have a very good midfield combination who keep possession and play nicely. Furthermore, I read alot of comments its a good idea to use Kuyt to harrass evra , come on, why can't for once let them think about us harrassing them? lets put a player who causes problems forward not a player who defends and loses the ball everywhere. Moreover, I thought we started seeing more of the ball when Benni and Aquilani came on, we started looking like a unit again, creating space and giving some neat passes, unfortunately for Torres to miss a glorious chance at the end of the 2nd half.

Lets keep it simple, lets play some possession football, drop Kuyt and Lucas, play Aquilani and Benayoun or Babel, play Maxi on the right not on the left, we will definetly play better than way, because it just showed in the last 15 minutes of the game. Babel came on and caused problems, Benayoun the same thing. Aquilani did ok, showed some neat one - twos and kept the ball better than Lucas.

Finally, our back four, we are lacking a leader who can dominate aerially, I remember Hyypia last season dealing with all those floating crosses and got the best out of everyone. Insua, right now is just not good enough, he might mature into a really solid player later on, he won't be top class, but will become a decent player in the future, right now he isn't first team material. Plus, the backfour are vulnrubale in the air. For me, I think what Rafa should do is, play the Greek for a couple of games, I know he is not your cup of tea but he was doing well lately and he would do better if he had carragher or agger beside him.

I don't find anything wrong with our 4-5-1 formation IF we play the right players

if we have a midfield/attack like this
Torres
Babel/Benni Aquilani Maxi
Gerrard Mascherano

Then this is one really good midfield line up, with players who are excellent in the final third and keep possession better than having Lucas and Kuyt in the team. Let us give it a shot, lets tr something different for a change, the ones we are playing right now is not working, plus our season is gone anyways and we unlikely to get 4th place so lets try it for a couple of games because you will see a different Liverpool, a team that played some possession and attacking football against Portsmouth and it can be applyed to any other team.

We don't have a really bad team, we just need to fine tune it, play the right players all the time and keep the average ones as squad players. My only worry is our backfour and that needs major changing in the Summer.

by **Dundalk** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:28 pm

Good post metalhead and I, along with a lot of others on here, agree with what you are saying. I started a thread not so long ago complaining that we are not pleasing on the eye and offer very little going forward.

The fans look frustrated with it all but im beginning to see that the players are also fed up with our system. The body language on some of them - Gerrard especially- would indicate that its not a happy dressing room. Rafa has stuck to his guns and he is not going to change now so when you say its time for a change, your right, a change of manager

by **metalhead** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:32 pm

I wasn't implying a change of manager dundalk mate

I just want him to change a few things, I want to go up to his face and tell him how all fans feel what he is doing wrong and change it. It won't happen anyways but, if you look at it, with the right players and selection we look like a top four team. I know he won't change much, but he should.

by **Dundalk** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:34 pm

I know you didnt mean the manager. I just meant you were right when you said we need a change

But IMO its the change is the manger - he is not going to play the side and the football you are asking in your post. A different manger might with these players, but nor Rafa

by **Kerry07** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:36 pm

agree with that team. (tho Aqua where Gerrard is.. Gerrard is not now, and not ever a central mid where calm composure is a requirement and metronomic passing)

Personally i think Aquilani is now in the first XI... and in for good. Rafa being an ultra cautious manager doesnt have the balls of the top coaches, so went with lucas today. When that inevitably failed and there was zero creativity from midfield, its clear that with "less risk" of now playing Aquilani he will now feature heavily.

If he does (tho it is rafa so expect the bizarre) then i see our play being transformed, but too late to grab 4th (likewise when it was too late to win the league last season when in early February rafa suddenly declared we now have to go for 3 points after a series of draws due to cautious line ups/substitutions - when top managers have that mentality from August)

by **liverpoolusfan** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:04 pm

Hopefully Rafa recognizes the situation the club is in ( he did when they played Portsmouth). They need wins. They don't need draws. They need max points from the remaining schedule to stand any chance of fourth.

If he plays Lucas and Masch again then he's basically saying Aqualani can't hold his own against the likes of Hull, Sunderland, Birmingham etc., in which case why the hell is he here? If it's fitness issue then start him til he's out of gas then bring in Yossi or Babel of whomever else. If it's the pace of the game issue, how's he suppose to learn sitting on the bench?

I can see why he isn't confident using him against Man. U but he knew could handle the Portsmouth midfielders and started him then. Surely he can handle the pace against the lower half teams that they now have to play against. If not, did he just pay 20 mil for a player to only play against the Cellar dwellers and cup ties?

If he doesn't start him in the next stretch of games then he either a) overpaid for aqulani b) overestimated how good he really is.

I don't recall Alonso being treated with such kid gloves in his first year here.

Babel, Yossi and even Maxi all need to start over Lucas at this point because playing "not to lose" has gotten this team in the predicament that they are in, starring up at the table and hoping for some serious help to help get back to the Champions league.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:04 pm

Kerry07 wrote:agree with that team. (tho Aqua where Gerrard is.. Gerrard is not now, and not ever a central mid where calm composure is a requirement and metronomic passing)

Personally i think Aquilani is now in the first XI... and in for good. Rafa being an ultra cautious manager doesnt have the balls of the top coaches, so went with lucas today. When that inevitably failed and there was zero creativity from midfield, its clear that with "less risk" of now playing Aquilani he will now feature heavily.

If he does (tho it is rafa so expect the bizarre) then i see our play being transformed, but too late to grab 4th (likewise when it was too late to win the league last season when in early February rafa suddenly declared we now have to go for 3 points after a series of draws due to cautious line ups/substitutions - when top managers have that mentality from August)

Forgive me for saying this but you are living in a Fu*king dream world if you think that Rafa will play a creative midfielder for the rest of the season.
As I have said before he is the navigator on his own journey and we are passengers on the way to a car crash.
He is clueless, but the most astonishing thing is that he is adamant in his foolishness.
Lucas had a good first half against Lille but he was back to his pointless best today. Kuyt did his usual headless chicken routine giving the ball away and frustrating everyone except the opposition.
Rafa is like a stubborn old woman who cant or wont change his ways. If his system and team selections work why arent we at the top of the league? Those people who sing his name after we win a game are quite simply sheep who know fu'ck all. I have never been so angry and frustrated with a Liverpoool manager in my life. Even Souness didnt make me feel this bad.
There is absolutely no need for us to persist in playing like we did today. Mondays game should have been the start of a good run and the proof to the manager that creative, forward, attacking play is the way to win league games. Sadly he chose to ignore the evidence.

by **damjan193** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:08 pm

Very true, I've always said that - we have great players, all we need to do is play them at the right position, at the right time.I totaly agree with you, and with the guys who say that we should drop Lucas.What I dont get is WHY dont we play Aquilani, I think that he is ready and playing a creativ passer in the middle is just what we need.Lucas sucks the whole season... actully he sucks his whole carear in Liverpool.The only thing that I dont agree is the thought about playing Babel insted of Benny... Benny is a far better player if you ask me.Babel, along with Kuyt should stay on the bench, Lucas as well.Kuyt is not all that bad, but id play Rodriguez more often, on as A RIGHT winger.Where does Rafa get these ideas about playing him left anyway.He would have done a better job if he played Benny insted, since he wants someone on the left.

by **sully0182** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:13 pm

spot on, we're not goin anywhere with rafa at the helm, the time for patience and faith is over imo, theres only so much of these daft decesions and incoherent rambling you can take

by **Kerry07** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:16 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
Kerry07 wrote:agree with that team. (tho Aqua where Gerrard is.. Gerrard is not now, and not ever a central mid where calm composure is a requirement and metronomic passing)

Personally i think Aquilani is now in the first XI... and in for good. Rafa being an ultra cautious manager doesnt have the balls of the top coaches, so went with lucas today. When that inevitably failed and there was zero creativity from midfield, its clear that with "less risk" of now playing Aquilani he will now feature heavily.

If he does (tho it is rafa so expect the bizarre) then i see our play being transformed, but too late to grab 4th (likewise when it was too late to win the league last season when in early February rafa suddenly declared we now have to go for 3 points after a series of draws due to cautious line ups/substitutions - when top managers have that mentality from August)

Forgive me for saying this but you are living in a Fu*king dream world if you think that Rafa will play a creative midfielder for the rest of the season.
As I have said before he is the navigator on his own journey and we are passengers on the way to a car crash.
He is clueless, but the most astonishing thing is that he is adamant in his foolishness.
Lucas had a good first half against Lille but he was back to his pointless best today. Kuyt did his usual headless chicken routine giving the ball away and frustrating everyone except the opposition.
Rafa is like a stubborn old woman who cant or wont change his ways. If his system and team selections work why arent we at the top of the league? Those people who sing his name after we win a game are quite simply sheep who know fu'ck all. I have never been so angry and frustrated with a Liverpoool manager in my life. Even Souness didnt make me feel this bad.
There is absolutely no need for us to persist in playing like we did today. Mondays game should have been the start of a good run and the proof to the manager that creative, forward, attacking play is the way to win league games. Sadly he chose to ignore the evidence.

Agree with all of that... and maybe i'm being too generous to rafa in thinking he will now belately adopt common sense and put Aquilani in..

I personally am not a rafa fan.. i also detested Houlli in his last season and his arrogance of dismissing fans opinions in watching the expensive garbage he churned out, but our off field problems are so huge that Rafa is a secondary concern. Ordinarily i'd want rafa sacked, but the off field mess means we cant appoint a top coach (Hiddink/Mourinho).. so for now hes the best we got.

by **Penguins** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:18 pm

Agree with what the topicstarter says but Rafa probably won't change his philosophy.

The root of it all is his love for "haaaard work". It wins all.

0 creativy? 0 skill? Got hard work?
Then you start!

Lucas and Kuyt just has to play which limits the options and I am tired of it.

by **7_Kewell** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:22 pm

I'm firmly in the Rafa out camp, he's been given 5 years and a ton of cash and he's failed time and again to deliver league sucess. The closest we got was last season, and then he fecked it up by cracking under the pressure.

by **tubby** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:22 pm

If there is one thing Rafa is, it's stubborn. I doubt after 5 years he will change is strategy on the pitch.

by **Sir Roger** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:30 pm

Penguins wrote:Agree with what the topicstarter says but Rafa probably won't change his philosophy.

The root of it all is his love for "haaaard work". It wins all.

0 creativy? 0 skill? Got hard work?
Then you start!

Lucas and Kuyt just has to play which limits the options and I am tired of it.

The league table doesnt lie. Rafa has gambled and lost this season. People can go on about refereeing decisions, freak goals, bad luck and injuries as much as they want. The buck stops with the manager.
He picks the teams specifically for the games. He picks specific players to play in the formation he decides.
He analyses everything down to the last detail we are told and his preparation is second to none.
Well guess what? This approach is not working.
Look at the table. Its not working. Watch the games. Its not working.
Wanting it to work doesnt mean it will. His philosophy is flawed. Look at the table.
I am frightened for the future of LFC without Rafa because we dont know who will replace him
I am just as frightened for the future with him.

by **liverpoolusfan** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:39 pm

bavlondon wrote:If there is one thing Rafa is, it's stubborn. I doubt after 5 years he will change is strategy on the pitch.

Unfortunately, you're right. And there in lies the long term problem for this club. With the exception of last season where this team got off to a rocket start and then came back down to reality with Rafa ball, his tactics don't seem suited if the end goal is to win the Prem.

He'll probably get this team back in the top four next season ( assuming we don't finish theret his year and he's still around next season). But will his philosophy of destroyer instead of creator football ever lead this team to a Prem title?

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