Liverpool FC Forum

by **red_guy** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:01 am

Benny The Noon wrote:Becasue none could of done a better job than Masher

I'm with Dawson here and really.. midfield : mascher > Lucas instead lucas got to play in that position. Mascher to RB. Where's our 2nd and 3rd choice RB? if you're not using them just because they're not 'good enough', why bother having them in the team then...?
Mascher is not a fullback. He has no business there unless ALL of our fb's are injured.

by **Owzat** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:46 am

Owzat wrote:50-11 in favour of us finishing fourth

Now 52-27, two more votes that we'll finish fourth and SIXTEEN more saying that we won't - that in less than 24 hours.

It might require form like we finished last season with, if we can manage that. The mancs are vulnerable, we can beat Chelsea at home, but can we stop performances like Monday's...........................?!!?!?!?

I think Rafa's comments to BBC, the new "headline" as it were that he blames the players' attitudes stinks of desperation. Doesn't Rafa know that part of his job as manager is to instill the right attitude, motivate the players and maintain morale?!? All very well blaming the players of 'the team that Rafa built', taking accolades when the team is doing well but blaming everyone but himself for bad results and bad runs of results.

Is anyone counting what the blame count is at yet? Refs were getting it in the neck for a while, now it's the players which to a degree is true but then he bought them, sends them out etc so the buck will always stop with the manager regardless of how many on here try to make it out doesn't. In some ways reading the defence of various players, the manager etc and the blaming of finances, luck, injuries etc is as if there were Rafas on this forum. I mean some of the members on here could be his PA, APPLY seriously because you say the kind of things that Rafa does! :laugh:

But then some of you may have to keep quiet your views on Kuyt because you'd be out on your ear, then again that's about the only score Rafa is right on because in a season of woe his regular dutchman has scored nine league goals yet gets stick for bad results.

I thought it might be good if Rafa left a few months ago, but now we're stuck with him to the bitter end and that may come very soon. If we don't finish 4th and he stays he'll be forever reminded of his guarantee, he'll look more of a muppet than he does in the media most of the time. I wouldn't be the first person to draw comparisons between media Rafa and Houllier as his days were numbered too. In Houllier's bad season of 02/03 he landed a cup, maybe history will repeat itself, but he was lucky to get another chance.

by **Big Niall** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:49 pm

What are you worrying about? Benitez GUARANTEED 4th ages ago.

by **Big Niall** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:52 pm

I knew ages ago that the manager is uselss but got slaughtered for saying so. I don't want to say I told you so but................

Everyone who campaigned for him to get that massive new contract should be embaressed.

by **club_Levis** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:55 pm

I am sorry we wont make it....clue less manager..

by **LFC2007** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:48 pm

Owzat wrote:I think Rafa's comments to BBC, the new "headline" as it were that he blames the players' attitudes stinks of desperation. Doesn't Rafa know that part of his job as manager is to instill the right attitude, motivate the players and maintain morale?!? All very well blaming the players of 'the team that Rafa built', taking accolades when the team is doing well but blaming everyone but himself for bad results and bad runs of results.

I think you are confused.

As a manager, you know that ultimately the responsibility for effecting change lies with you because that's what managers are charged with; therefore in times of turmoil, you feel the weight of that responsibility.

Against Wigan, Rafa thought that the major problem - particularly in the first half - was the attitude of the players. Given that he knows it is his responsibility to ensure the players are motivated, he knows that he is responsible when said attitude causes Wigan-like performances. That explains why his mood was, and has been, low in his post-match press conferences, i.e. he feels the pressure because he knows it is ultimately his responsibility to turn things around.

You're implying that he isn't accepting the weight of responsibility, as though by describing the cause of the result (attitude) he is also absolving himself of his responsibility for it, where the two are distinct.

by **Avi Cohen** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:56 pm

I voted no.

Up until a few weeks ago I would have voted yes, that we would somehow turn it around, but that would depend on changing things about. But then we have a manager who REFUSES to try something different. Is this because he can't (that he has no ideas how to) or won't (changing things now, this far into his 'regime', would be admitting he was wrong and he's too stubborn for that).

I don't want to be a doom and gloomer, but I think this is the beginning of the end for Liverpool. There is, however, ONE way out - if we sack Rafa in the summer and keep Torres/Gerrard we'll be back in the CL the following season. All we need is a manager who wants to play football...

I don't know what Rafa is like in person, but I certainly don't like the way he wants football to be played. He sees it as a game to lose, rather than to win, and sets out his team accordingly. Imagine if every team played like Liverpool? You'd start seeing kids become uninterested in the game and it would die away.

I've said this before in another thread but I'll say it again:
Every team has 10 outfield players.
4 of those are defenders - 40% sent out to defend
In our case, we have 2 defensive midfielders - 60% sent out to defend
You could argue that Kuyt warrants a starting position for his protection of our right back and his ceaseless harassing of the opposition - 70% sent out to defend.

That's 70% of our team whose job it is to stop the other team playing. That doesn't strike fear in other teams, that encourages them - "Liverpool are worried about us so let's give them something to worry about"

We have the best striker in the world starved of service. If he had a feeder striker, someone to toe-poke a scrappy ball through a melee of defenders, or spot a gap, he would be scoring more freely. But having another striker would mean taking away 1 of 7 players whose instinct it is to defend. (What if Fifa changed the rules and teams could field 12 players - would Rafa field another defender or a striker?). All you have to do is look at our set-pieces to figure out Rafa's mentality - he'll sacrifice the bare minimum in attacking corners and bring EVERYONE back to defend them. I never see the point in that - once you clear it, it will just come back and there's no chance of hitting anyone on the break.

The Scum have had their poorest team in years but Fergie knows how to play them to the best of their ability. He encourages movement and positive thinking - get the ball forward, use it well. Watch the next Scum game and notice how many of their players - midfielders/defenders - get themselves into scoring opportunities or positions to create. (Cue comments like "well :censored:

off and watch them then - I have and they play football the way it's supposed to be played. Arsenal too.)

Rafa is the opposite - he doesn't trust his players to play football, to win games; he sees going forward as a liability because we could lose it and they could hit us on the break. This is why "controlling games" is so important to Rafa. He likes the endless passing back and forth and back and forth across the box because if we spend a lot of time doing that, the clock runs down and they have little chance of scoring - in the midst of this we MIGHT grab one. There doesn't seem to be a plan of attack - just a case of 'if we spend time in and around the box we're bound to score at some stage'.

Encouraging players to think outside the box, to utilise their talent, is an X factor that Rafa can't risk, he has to control EVERYTHING a player does and if a player doesn't do what Rafa wants him to do, he finds himself on the bench. Some of us wonder why the likes of Kuyt and Lucas (and now Maxi) start every game... it's because they do EXACTLY what Rafa wants, no questions asked. Yes men.

And let's look at the likes of Lucas, Babel and Kuyt - A Brazilian footballer of the year asked to sit in front of a back four making 4/5 yard square passes; a Dutch right-footed striker (and a promising talent before he arrived here) played on the left wing; and another Dutch striker who had no trouble banging them in in his home league, employed solely to protect our right back. I remember reading about Pennant's comments that Rafa was telling him to hang on to the ball, to do this, that, etc when he wanted to play the early ball (not that I'd take Jermaine Pennant's word). The evidence is there to suggest that Rafa stifles, not nurtures, talent. Aquiliani sits on the bench, as does Pacheco.

Thoughts?

by **LFC2007** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:00 pm

Avi Cohen wrote:I don't want to be a doom and gloomer, but I think this is the beginning of the end for Liverpool.

'kinell

by **Avi Cohen** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:05 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Avi Cohen wrote:I don't want to be a doom and gloomer, but I think this is the beginning of the end for Liverpool.

'kinell

Disclaimer: I'm a pessimistic person in life. Not just football.

What did John Cusack once say? Something like: "If you start out depressed everything is a pleasant surprise"

by **kunilson** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:32 pm

It'd be different if we were competing with one team for fourth.....even tho i think Man City are the main rivals for the spot....its difficult to say still.

We're not playing as if we will finish fourth. havent in a while, although our results have been getting better (apart from the last one of course). Think the home form is absolutely crucial and no more points can be dropped at home.....and the away form cant get much worse so a huge improvement there is needed, thank god we only got United away next :;):

Its not in our hands....Need to grind this one out somehow and hope city, villa and spurs bottle it. Any hope that we will actually start playin the football we know we can is all but lost at the moment, and may not even matter.

Im an optimist by the way.

by **Emerald Red** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:37 pm

To be honest, we don't even deserve fourth, or should I say, some of the players don't. Not making the CL spot could actually be a good thing, because it will clear out the disloyal players, and the post Istanbul pleb fanbase. Liverpool rebuilds from there.

by **Avi Cohen** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:56 pm

kunilson wrote:Im an optimist by the way.

What's that like?

by **Greavesie** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:13 pm

Emerald Red wrote:To be honest, we don't even deserve fourth, or should I say, some of the players don't. Not making the CL spot could actually be a good thing, because it will clear out the disloyal players, and the post Istanbul pleb fanbase. Liverpool rebuilds from there.

I dont mind it when you put it that way Ste

Every cloud...

by **Kash_Mountain** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:21 pm

I'm very worried about the way things are going this season for LFC. There just seems to be many factors (which are staring to bite) contributing to the slide down (owners, money to buy quality players, to some extent Rafa' tactics- one up front, no player seems to be able to take the reins, no fire in the belly etc etc).

I think we may finish below 4th this season but miracles do happen....

by **Fowler_E7** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:30 pm

Emerald Red wrote:To be honest, we don't even deserve fourth, or should I say, some of the players don't. Not making the CL spot could actually be a good thing, because it will clear out the disloyal players, and the post Istanbul pleb fanbase. Liverpool rebuilds from there.

Yeah and then we can keep the loyal rubbish ones! how could failing to qualify for the champions league possibly benefit us in any way? we will be even worse of financially and if Man City take 4th spot that would be the launch of something big, as they will have access to all the worlds top talent. If that happens it could possibly make it incredibly difficult to get back in to the top four again.

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