Liverpool FC Forum

by **Owzat** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:16 pm

supersub wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:The lad can't win , it's obviously a different game in the flesh cos the amount of sh!t he's getting is ubfeckinbeievable . He had a crackin game yesterday .Was one of our best players. Breaking up there attacks ,starting our attacks , getting stuck in , sleek passing , always making himself available . Runs into the box , stone wall peno he should have had . Clearances in our box . Give the lad a break ffs.

spot on....sadly the f.ckin halfwits on here will never appreciate the work lucas puts in because they will always refuse to see it...

And with his scapegoat in crime, Kuyt, they will play down the work he puts in as "minimum expectation" even though their favourites do FA and never get the blame. Kuyt didn't have a great game, but made his being on the pitch worthwhile by being in the right place at the right time. Without the likes of Lucas, Kuyt (Mascherano etc) then I think we'd lose games like that, while the much preferred likes of Gerrard, Torres, Benayoun and Riera might do FA literally and never get the same harsh criticism.

You need a balance, I don't believe Lucas and Mascherano is ever going to provide the perfect balance, but there are others in the team FFS.

by **andy_g** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:26 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:The lad can't win , it's obviously a different game in the flesh cos the amount of sh!t he's getting is ubfeckinbeievable . He had a crackin game yesterday .Was one of our best players. Breaking up there attacks ,starting our attacks , getting stuck in , sleek passing , always making himself available . Runs into the box , stone wall peno he should have had . Clearances in our box . Give the lad a break ffs.

nah, well said, igor mate. i notice that the vast majority of regular match goers are the ones that give lucas the credit he often deserves.

as well as the odd regular non-match-goer like myself

by **Penguins** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:37 pm

Well, Lucas is a decent enough player, but he lacks drive and worst of all him and Masch works terrible together. Both sit back way to much and pass it sideways or backwards too much.
Lucas makes very few forwards runs without the ball and is too static. He just has to be dropped so Aquilani can finally play.
Why else did we buy him?

by **Zidane** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:51 pm

Lucas has a lot of improvement to do what I think he is capable of. He has shown ability to win headers, be in good positions for corners/crosses, makes excellent runs at times, wins a lot of balls, every so often makes a great pass and is a very hard worker. Problem is he rarely ever puts it all together in a single game. Misses a ton of open headers I have no f'n idea why I think once he finally hits one right he will do it more often though. Think he's just fragile mentally when it comes to a lot of things like he's scared of letting fans down or doing something bad, he plays way too safe at times.

As for yesterday I saw the game and didn't think he stood out but I was half asleep for most of it so eh. Then again I thought Kuyt played well and everyone is having a go at him too so who knows.

by **loopyliverpool** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:04 pm

I don't think it is coincidental that our poor run has happend while Lucas/Ngog/Insua/Kuyt are all playing regularly. You can carry one or two players in a team but four is stretching it. Lucas has come on leaps since last season but he still aint good enough imo. I'm not solely blaming him he has the distinction of being exceptionally average in a team that is desperate for more from their midfield partnership. The style we are playing is almost encapsulated in Lucas and it is making very dull viewing indeed. If Aqualani still aint fit then there might be a case for playing Lucas as we have little back up (although I would still favour Gerrard in the middle with Mascherano) but we are creating very few clear cut chances and dare I say got lucky yesterday.

by **aCe'** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:49 pm

You know what .. lets try to make things easy for everyone here...

Lucas as a player isnt that bad...

Good enough to make the Brazil squad ? not for me, they have about 10players in CM who are better that i can list, im sure theres quite a few i dont know about too...

Good enough to make the Liverpool squad ? probably a yes if only for the experience hes gained for being here as long as he has and having played so many important games in the league and CL for us... knows the system, knows the players, and you know what to expect of him..

Can we get a better backup ? a yes for me, but not a top priority atm because as things stand we have Aquilani, Mascherano and Gerrard who can all play the CM position, having Lucas as backup for Mascherano and Gerrard as a plan B in-case Aquilani gets injured would do the trick... If money is thin, i wouldnt look to spend much (if any) to replace Lucas, id much rather change the setup or bring in Benny to play Gerrards role..

NOW

The problem that I have with Lucas, is not that i dont think that hes a good player, its not that i dont think that he gives it his 100% on the pitch, its not that i think hes an absolute waste of space when hes played, MY PROBLEM WITH LUCAS IS THAT HIS STYLE OF PLAY JUST DOESNT FIT OUR SYSTEM !

He's something of a box-to-box midfielder, something like essien except about 20 times worse... What they have in common is that they both popup if you will all around the pitch and do their best work when theyr not on the ball (Essien is one of the most complete players in the world if not THE most complete player so naturally some of his good work comes when hes on the ball too)..
What we need in the side, is not a hard working, somewhat cultured CM, we need a ball playing CM playmaker... Some sides dont rely on that... Aston Villa being the prime example.. They have the likes of Milner and Young who are exceptional at carrying the ball from deeper, thus eliminating the need for someone to spring the ball around connecting play until an impact player does something with it...

Lucas to me has been one of the main reasons why we've struggled this season... Not to make him a scapegoat or anything, i just geniunly believe that his style of play leaves us lacking in the middle, and having to deal with added presssure more often than not as a result of us not being able to dictate play, or the tempo of the game....

by **ConnO'var** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:07 pm

s@int wrote:Just for you Conn' ..... a Lucas showboat

Mesmerising he is!

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:08 pm

aCe' wrote:You know what .. lets try to make things easy for everyone here...

Lucas as a player isnt that bad...

Good enough to make the Brazil squad ? not for me, they have about 10players in CM who are better that i can list, im sure theres quite a few i dont know about too...

Good enough to make the Liverpool squad ? probably a yes if only for the experience hes gained for being here as long as he has and having played so many important games in the league and CL for us... knows the system, knows the players, and you know what to expect of him..

Can we get a better backup ? a yes for me, but not a top priority atm because as things stand we have Aquilani, Mascherano and Gerrard who can all play the CM position, having Lucas as backup for Mascherano and Gerrard as a plan B in-case Aquilani gets injured would do the trick... If money is thin, i wouldnt look to spend much (if any) to replace Lucas, id much rather change the setup or bring in Benny to play Gerrards role..

NOW

The problem that I have with Lucas, is not that i dont think that hes a good player, its not that i dont think that he gives it his 100% on the pitch, its not that i think hes an absolute waste of space when hes played, MY PROBLEM WITH LUCAS IS THAT HIS STYLE OF PLAY JUST DOESNT FIT OUR SYSTEM !

He's something of a box-to-box midfielder, something like essien except about 20 times worse... What they have in common is that they both popup if you will all around the pitch and do their best work when theyr not on the ball (Essien is one of the most complete players in the world if not THE most complete player so naturally some of his good work comes when hes on the ball too)..
What we need in the side, is not a hard working, somewhat cultured CM, we need a ball playing CM playmaker... Some sides dont rely on that... Aston Villa being the prime example.. They have the likes of Milner and Young who are exceptional at carrying the ball from deeper, thus eliminating the need for someone to spring the ball around connecting play until an impact player does something with it...

Lucas to me has been one of the main reasons why we've struggled this season... Not to make him a scapegoat or anything, i just geniunly believe that his style of play leaves us lacking in the middle, and having to deal with added presssure more often than not as a result of us not being able to dictate play, or the tempo of the game....

Thats a good post that mate.

When we have a midfield that consists of Aurellio, Lucas, Masher and Kuyt there is always going to be a lack of someone carrying the ball forwards and linking the midfield with the attack.

There is also a major lack of options when we are in posession.
I know Everton where tiring but we looked a far better side when we got Benayoun and Riera on the pitch.
Players that are comfortable on the ball and can carry the ball up the pitch - like you were saying.

by **ConnO'var** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:14 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:The lad can't win , it's obviously a different game in the flesh cos the amount of sh!t he's getting is ubfeckinbeievable . He had a crackin game yesterday .Was one of our best players. Breaking up there attacks ,starting our attacks , getting stuck in , sleek passing , always making himself available . Runs into the box , stone wall peno he should have had . Clearances in our box . Give the lad a break ffs.

I agree he had a very good game Igs. I don't doubt his ability at all..... never have.

I just don't think that him and Masch are a creative enough pairing or perhaps more accurately, they don't provide sufficient forward impetus against the lesser lights of the league when we have to find a way through the "park-the -bus-ers". These 2 guys in tandem won't put the fear of god in the opposition from an attacking standpoint.

Individually they're both very good... but as a partnership, they'll do better against teams that press us..... not against teams we have to press.

by **Kerry07** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:37 am

Mascherano is a world class defensive midfielder, captain of Argentina, rated at 30million and Barca have been on his tail since May.

As a destroyer, Masch needs to have a classy creative partner beside him for him to give the ball to... the perfect balance of ball winner + creator. We had that last season and Masch stated we simply couldnt lose Alonso...and thus break up the combination. Having lost Xabi (due to rafas notoriously weak manmanagement - the baby disgrace/then a summer hawking him around Europe) Masch then became disillusioned... he still is. Equally Gerrard looks down, and stated 2 weeks ago he was "devastated" Alonso had gone and made note of how clever Xabi was controlling midfield by making a pass, and then immediately ran into space to be open to recieve it again.. controlled midfield possession, as the pivot between defence and attack. Thats completely gone.... and its why pisspoor everton (1 win in 12) CONTROLLED midfield in the derby for the 1st time in over a decade.

If you dont control midfield, theres no platform, no connection, team is loose...defence and attack suffers bigtime.

While lucas gets pilloried by all the neutrals, more than because of his lack of talent and not having any real attribute (ie. no vision, no creativity, no passing range, slow, doesnt score, weak at tackling, gets over run and dominated) my biggest qualm with lucas is that he hides in not making himself open after making his customary short pass, and puts team mates in trouble who are then isolated and have no option. Possession breaks down, we lose the ball... hence our team possession stats have nosedived this season, the opposition now get far more of the ball, far more chances, more through balls... Reina and the back 4 have never been busier, as our midfield is loose and no longer have any composure or control.

From 86 points and QF of the CL... to out of the League race and CL in November, the devastation of losing the pivot in midfield, the link between defence and attack who sat as the deep playmaker infront of the back 4 and always took the ball off them, then pinged the ball to wide men/attackers, has been catastrophic for us.

The link player is THE most important on the field, and right now thats missing for us... Aquilani was the man to replace Alonso while his stop gap lucas has filled in, we must hope the Italian can deliver.

by **made in UK** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:46 am

My grandad is Scouse and he said Lucas is average, so it must be true.

by **Igor Zidane** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:31 am

made in UK wrote:My grandad is Scouse and he said Lucas is average, so it must be true.

Well he's obviously a blue ,going by that statement.

by **devaney** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:06 am

Igor you don't have a good word to say about our owners and yet you expect us to suddenly give Lucas a break? He is just a very very poor player and deserves all the :censored:

he gets! Just read the Rafa pre season hype and some of Lucas's own overblown comments and compare them with the reality of a player who has clearly shown over the last three months that he is not up to the job.

To suggest that he played well against Everton is nonsense. Before Mascherano's fluke goal Everton looked more likely to score and just take a look at their team sheet. We were playing a very poor team and we were still utter s.*i*e!

by **Igor Zidane** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:18 am

devaney wrote:Igor you don't have a good word to say about our owners and yet you expect us to suddenly give Lucas a break? He is just a very very poor player and deserves all the he gets! Just read the Rafa pre season hype and some of Lucas's own overblown comments and compare them with the reality of a player who has clearly shown over the last three months that he is not up to the job.

To suggest that he played well against Everton is nonsense. Before Mascherano's fluke goal Everton looked more likely to score and just take a look at their team sheet. We were playing a very poor team and we were still utter s.*i*e!

If YOU had as much to say about the owners as YOU do about Rafa and Lucas things might change . YOU AND YOUR ILK need to get YOUR priorities right mate.

by **made in UK** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:50 am

Igor Zidane wrote:
made in UK wrote:My grandad is Scouse and he said Lucas is average, so it must be true.

Well he's obviously a blue ,going by that statement.

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