Liverpool FC Forum

by **bunglemark2** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:18 pm

You, sunshine, are most definitely not well in the head. No, really, I think you need help.
Age 28 and you have the wisdom of Yoda, eh ? Good grief, you're a disgrace to the human race... :laugh:

by **Dazzer** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:22 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:You, sunshine, are most definitely not well in the head. No, really, I think you need help.
Age 28 and you have the wisdom of Yoda, eh ? Good grief, you're a disgrace to the human race...

you still can't argue a football point why are you even on the forums ? :no

by **big al** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:23 pm

Dazzer are we graded on Fanny sniffing. no one told me, can you tell me do you need to practise and were can I go to learn. Sounds like a F*cking Brilliant Job. Can you have a sly Lick or is it just noses.

by **Dazzer** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:32 pm

big al wrote:Dazzer are we graded on Fanny sniffing. no one told me, can you tell me do you need to practise and were can I go to learn. Sounds like a F*cking Brilliant Job. Can you have a sly Lick or is it just noses.

I think its just Kudos if you get down there mate it all depends on the girl tbh. :;):

by **Fowler_E7** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:30 pm

Jesus christ, people think that Lucas is good enough for the team, then wonder why we consistently struggle? the lad dosnt possess enough quality to be a regular at a club like Lverpool, to be quite frank its embarrasing that he is a first team regular. He is a completly average player with not one ability that i would even consider at a good level, he cant shoot, pass,header or tackle. He has no physical ability in terms of pace or strength, he's got got decent stamina but so what? its worthless with nothing else to back it up. It seems these days he gets the sympathy vote because he gets a lot of stick, but the bottom line is he is not good enough to play for Liverpool.

Ever wonder why were strugling in mid table? its because we have players like Skrtl, Lucas and Kuyt as first team regulars!

by **Fauxy** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:38 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:Jesus christ, people think that Lucas is good enough for the team, then wonder why we consistently struggle? the lad dosnt possess enough quality to be a regular at a club like Lverpool, to be quite frank its embarrasing that he is a first team regular. He is a completly average player with not one ability that i would even consider at a good level, he cant shoot, pass,header or tackle. He has no physical ability in terms of pace or strength, he's got got decent stamina but so what? its worthless with nothing else to back it up. It seems these days he gets the sympathy vote because he gets a lot of stick, but the bottom line is he is not good enough to play for Liverpool.

Ever wonder why were strugling in mid table? its because we have players like Skrtl, Lucas and Kuyt as first team regulars!

Funny you say Lucas cant tackle or pass because the stats say otherwise.. he is 2nd for tackling and 4th for passing.

Have you not been watching the past 4 or 5 games ?? He made Scholes and Carrick look like absolute sh!te, he has made some nice assists and is doing just as good a job as Mascherano.

Its time to stop giving the lad stick. His role in our team is to break up play and just be a defensive midfielder. I think he is doing that very well at the moment.

And I cant believe people still moan about Kuyt!! He was one of the highest scoring wingers last season for gods sake!! Alright he hasnt had a good few games but to say he is one of the reasons why we are struggling in the mid table is just stupid.

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:45 pm

Lucas has improved there's no question about it, but lets be honest from his early season form that isn't hard. As Fowler says in the previous post, usually when you are mid table and have lost six out of eight or whatever it is there is a reason for that. The main reason for that as far as we are concerned is that our central midfield is disfunctional. When you have two players in the centre of midfield who never score a goal and never make a goal, it is difficult to compete with other teams who aspire to be at the top. I think I'm right in saying that earlier in the season when we decided to play Gerrard in central midfield we won every match. That's not proof in itself but it is an indication what an absolutely huge difference having somebody in there who can make things happen actually makes to the team.

There may not have been much difference between the performances of Lucas and Masherano so far (although Masherano has been better lately), but there is no comparison between them really lets be honest. Until we find some creativity, goal threat and forward momentum in central midfield we will never prosper, of that I'm sure.

by **Fowler_E7** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:51 pm

Fauxy wrote:
Fowler_E7 wrote:Jesus christ, people think that Lucas is good enough for the team, then wonder why we consistently struggle? the lad dosnt possess enough quality to be a regular at a club like Lverpool, to be quite frank its embarrasing that he is a first team regular. He is a completly average player with not one ability that i would even consider at a good level, he cant shoot, pass,header or tackle. He has no physical ability in terms of pace or strength, he's got got decent stamina but so what? its worthless with nothing else to back it up. It seems these days he gets the sympathy vote because he gets a lot of stick, but the bottom line is he is not good enough to play for Liverpool.

Ever wonder why were strugling in mid table? its because we have players like Skrtl, Lucas and Kuyt as first team regulars!

Funny you say Lucas cant tackle or pass because the stats say otherwise.. he is 2nd for tackling and 4th for passing.

Have you not been watching the past 4 or 5 games ?? He made Scholes and Carrick look like absolute sh!te, he has made some nice assists and is doing just as good a job as Mascherano.

Its time to stop giving the lad stick. His role in our team is to break up play and just be a defensive midfielder. I think he is doing that very well at the moment.

And I cant believe people still moan about Kuyt!! He was one of the highest scoring wingers last season for gods sake!! Alright he hasnt had a good few games but to say he is one of the reasons why we are struggling in the mid table is just stupid.

those stats are meaningless, so what if lucas does 300 5 yard passes in a match, the guy couldnt contribute to an attack if his life was on the line. He never scores or assists, his tackling is a joke, your into your stats find out how many fouls he commits in a match, its ridiculous.

Look the fact of the matter is we struggle to score goals and its little wonder when we 3 of the 5 members of our midfield have little attacking ability, u cant have a midfield that consists of Lucas, Mascherano and Kuyt and expect to go out and beat teams. The fact is Lucas isnt good enough defensively to be a holding midfield and not good enough at attacking to be a offensive midfielder, he tries but fails on a consistent basis, the sooner Aquilani replaces him the better.

As for Kuyt, he has a place in the side as long is there is other quality around him but with Lucas and Mascherano in there we have three players with very limited footballing ability and the team suffers because of it. My choice when the team is fully fit would be a midfield of:

Rw. Benayoun Cm.Aquilani Cm.Mascherano Lw.Riera
Am.Gerrard

with these players we would have balance, attacking abilty, skill, strength, passing ability, stamina, hardwork and be strong defensively. we might actually score a few more goals too. Doubt Rafa would ever go for it though, i think he'd be too cautious for that.

by **Fowler_E7** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:52 pm

bigmick wrote:Lucas has improved there's no question about it, but lets be honest from his early season form that isn't hard. As Fowler says in the previous post, usually when you are mid table and have lost six out of eight or whatever it is there is a reason for that. The main reason for that as far as we are concerned is that our central midfield is disfunctional. When you have two players in the centre of midfield who never score a goal and never make a goal, it is difficult to compete with other teams who aspire to be at the top. I think I'm right in saying that earlier in the season when we decided to play Gerrard in central midfield we won every match. That's not proof in itself but it is an indication what an absolutely huge difference having somebody in there who can make things happen actually makes to the team.

There may not have been much difference between the performances of Lucas and Masherano so far (although Masherano has been better lately), but there is no comparison between them really lets be honest. Until we find some creativity, goal threat and forward momentum in central midfield we will never prosper, of that I'm sure.

nail on the head

by **kunilson** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:18 pm

Right my take on Lucas, at the moment.

He tries hard....he isn't the most talented of payers but i believe he has a good positioning sense. He may be a good passer of the ball but he doesn't pass further than 10 yards often enough for me to really judge. He makes runs now and then but he doesn't seem too comfortable in the final third....

i think his tackling is his main strength, but he does foul at the wrong time/place at times, but that will improve with experience i think.

Overall i feel that with confidence he will push himself more and maybe we will see a better player out of him, in terms of the risks he takes. He does try, but he needs help at times. i dont think he started the season that well but he has improved as it has gone on....

by **Dazzer** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:27 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:
Fauxy wrote:
Fowler_E7 wrote:Jesus christ, people think that Lucas is good enough for the team, then wonder why we consistently struggle? the lad dosnt possess enough quality to be a regular at a club like Lverpool, to be quite frank its embarrasing that he is a first team regular. He is a completly average player with not one ability that i would even consider at a good level, he cant shoot, pass,header or tackle. He has no physical ability in terms of pace or strength, he's got got decent stamina but so what? its worthless with nothing else to back it up. It seems these days he gets the sympathy vote because he gets a lot of stick, but the bottom line is he is not good enough to play for Liverpool.

Ever wonder why were strugling in mid table? its because we have players like Skrtl, Lucas and Kuyt as first team regulars!

Funny you say Lucas cant tackle or pass because the stats say otherwise.. he is 2nd for tackling and 4th for passing.

Have you not been watching the past 4 or 5 games ?? He made Scholes and Carrick look like absolute sh!te, he has made some nice assists and is doing just as good a job as Mascherano.

Its time to stop giving the lad stick. His role in our team is to break up play and just be a defensive midfielder. I think he is doing that very well at the moment.

And I cant believe people still moan about Kuyt!! He was one of the highest scoring wingers last season for gods sake!! Alright he hasnt had a good few games but to say he is one of the reasons why we are struggling in the mid table is just stupid.

those stats are meaningless, so what if lucas does 300 5 yard passes in a match, the guy couldnt contribute to an attack if his life was on the line. He never scores or assists, his tackling is a joke, your into your stats find out how many fouls he commits in a match, its ridiculous.

Look the fact of the matter is we struggle to score goals and its little wonder when we 3 of the 5 members of our midfield have little attacking ability, u cant have a midfield that consists of Lucas, Mascherano and Kuyt and expect to go out and beat teams. The fact is Lucas isnt good enough defensively to be a holding midfield and not good enough at attacking to be a offensive midfielder, he tries but fails on a consistent basis, the sooner Aquilani replaces him the better.

As for Kuyt, he has a place in the side as long is there is other quality around him but with Lucas and Mascherano in there we have three players with very limited footballing ability and the team suffers because of it. My choice when the team is fully fit would be a midfield of:

Rw. Benayoun Cm.Aquilani Cm.Mascherano Lw.Riera
Am.Gerrard

with these players we would have balance, attacking abilty, skill, strength, passing ability, stamina, hardwork and be strong defensively. we might actually score a few more goals too. Doubt Rafa would ever go for it though, i think he'd be too cautious for that.

Or fact 4 out the 5 you just put down are out by lack of fitness or injury. Not Rafas bigget fan but he can't turn water to blood.I agree with your point tho and its one I made earlyer today funny enough in masch thread.

But its Rafa sumed up isn't it squre pegs in round holes he plays 2 DM and expects them to make goals never gonna happen.He was blessed with Alonso who could do both but to find such a player for 30 mil is a nightmare.Hence why I say selling Alonso for 30 mil was bad buisness.It all comes down to thinking ahead and I can't see how Rafa has done that.Lucus isn't a bad player he is making his way in a hard league and doing an ok job in role he is given.But like I said before expecting Lucus to turn into Alonso is just madness its hard to live up to that status.

by **andy_g** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:29 pm

bigmick wrote:Lucas has improved there's no question about it, but lets be honest from his early season form that isn't hard. As Fowler says in the previous post, usually when you are mid table and have lost six out of eight or whatever it is there is a reason for that. The main reason for that as far as we are concerned is that our central midfield is disfunctional.

don't agree with you there, mick. while i'll admit that our central midfield isn't as good as it was last season, despite the fact that lucas is doing a much better job than most give him credit for, i think our problems are at either end.

the attack without torres is pretty toothless even if we create a hatful of chances. the game against birmingham was the perfect example - we spent the whole game camped in their half mounting attack after attack. the number of times we got into their box and behind them was amazing (thanks at times to lucas who passed forward, into the box, contributing to attacking moves) but as soon as it fell to anyone in a goal scoring position it all went t!ts up... air kicks, slices, misses and various other forms of comedy.

at the other end they get a couple of chances and score a couple of goals thanks to a largely disfunctional defence. this is the more worrying aspect as we can't attribute it to the lack of one influential player - though if anyone knows where the real jamie carragher is i'd like to know.

so no - i don't think the centre midfield is the real weak link, and i don't think lucas is doing especially poorly as a part of it.

by **stmichael** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:52 pm

bigmick wrote:when you are mid table and have lost six out of eight or whatever it is there is a reason for that. The main reason for that as far as we are concerned is that our central midfield is disfunctional. When you have two players in the centre of midfield who never score a goal and never make a goal, it is difficult to compete with other teams who aspire to be at the top.

tell me who in the united central midfield scores goals?

midfield isn't our problem. there's still only arsenal and chelsea who've scored more goals than us. our problems lie at the back pure and simple where we've been giving away daft goals.

by **Rush Job** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:04 pm

big al wrote:Dazzer are we graded on Fanny sniffing. no one told me, can you tell me do you need to practise and were can I go to learn. Sounds like a F*cking Brilliant Job. Can you have a sly Lick or is it just noses.

Did seem like a strange thing to call a bloke.

by **bigmick** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:05 pm

stmichael wrote:
bigmick wrote:when you are mid table and have lost six out of eight or whatever it is there is a reason for that. The main reason for that as far as we are concerned is that our central midfield is disfunctional. When you have two players in the centre of midfield who never score a goal and never make a goal, it is difficult to compete with other teams who aspire to be at the top.

tell me who in the united central midfield scores goals?

midfield isn't our problem. there's still only arsenal and chelsea who've scored more goals than us. our problems lie at the back pure and simple where we've been giving away daft goals.

Well Giggs scores occasionally, Scholes when he plays scores occasionally even these days, and Carrick chips in now and then and so does Fletcher. Also, all of those mentioned do get up and support, and do have a hand in creating things. Really though, if you are looking at the best two teams in the Premiership then both Arsenal and Chelsea are very potent from the central midfield area.

I hear what Andy is saying too about our problem being at either end rather than in the middle, but my contention is that it's at either end largely because of the pronblems in the middle. We don't defend the spaces in front of the back four well enough with Lucas and Masherano, and we don't attack with enough precision because of Lucas and Masherano.

The Birmingham game was a good example in many ways. True, we "battered" them, but how many actual cast iron clear cut chances did we create? How many desperate saves did their keeper have to make? Most of our half chances were hurried snap shots from ricochets inside the box, and it says it all really that by far our most potent player in the build up was our right back. Then we conceded two goals. True it would be hard to pin the blame on the midfield for that, but they did slice us up on a couple of occasions, the fella Benitez got himself one on one with Reina not five minutes before they scored.

For me our passing and movement in the central area is too considered, not fizzy enough. There is insufficient appreciation of angle, little subtlety of direction, and for those who are screaming at the monitor "you mean like Alonso used to provide you c... when you never appreciated him :angry:

!!!!!!", precisely. It will be interesting to see if Aquilani can go some way towards filling the hole, but our middle duo at the moment are absolutely nowhere near managing it. Like I say, you don't keep getting beat for no reason.

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