Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:55 am

Just a question for Sabre.

Do you think Daniel Guiza would be a good choice for us? I haven't seen a lot of him but everytime I have seen him he looks decent to me. I also don't think he'd cost the earth.

by **stmichael** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:35 pm

LegBarnes wrote:Apart from that if we got the cash go for someone like villa ?

Doesn't work well with Torres anyway.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:40 pm

stmichael wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Apart from that if we got the cash go for someone like villa ?

Doesn't work well with Torres anyway.

? didn't they win euros ? together ? now ya just being picky. :no

by **GYBS** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:24 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
stmichael wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Apart from that if we got the cash go for someone like villa ?

Doesn't work well with Torres anyway.

? didn't they win euros ? together ? now ya just being picky.

Torres had his best game for spain in the euros when villa couldnt play in the final and Fabregas played behind torres- villa and torres dont work well in the fact that you loose a lot of torres main game when he plays with villa or in fact a strike partner.

by **Sabre** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:30 pm

heimdall wrote:
Sabre wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
I think "Premiership experience" is a massively over-rated factor

Not suggesting that Prem experience in the "be all and end all" , Torres and Keane are would debunk any such assertion that no prem experience invites failure whilst previous prem exp guarantees success. However a player that is already acclimitised to the rigors of english football , life in the uk, and speaks the language surely has a better chance of succeeding than a player of equal ability who has never played in england , lived here or speaks the language ? .

Yes, but given the amount of foreign players this league has, which I think it has the highest foreign ratio in Europe, then we can't really say it's especially difficult to adapt.

It's not the Torres or Keane the ones who debunk the theory, but the Luis Garcias, the Bellainis, the Benayouns, some of these players, small physically or coming from small leagues like Belgium are the ones who prove that it's an overrated factor. Note the overrated, it's a factor, but it's given too much importance.

Sure some players will fail to adapt, but that may happen to Rush in Italy, or to Finnan in Spain, or to Morientes in England.

I disagree, if it is so over-rated a factor then what is the reason for the English clubs dominance in Europe the last few years. Is it just a case of having more money? Personally I think it's becuase of the increased physicality of the English game combined with quality players and management. A lot of legendary prem players needed a while to settle down, for example Henry and Drogba to name but two.

But Heimdall, the English dominance is a different matter I think?, it was not what I was discussing

English teams are dominating because when you add a base of good English footballers, with a good portion of the best players of the planet, the result are super strong teams.

My point wasn't that ANYONE can adapt. To adapt to a strong league you have to have some quality. My point is that the physical or cultural part of the league, as a factor is overrated, because players that don't seem adapted to this factor have adapted well because they're good enough. As a factor IT EXISTS, but maybe it's given too much weight?

That is, not discussing that English league is the strongest one at the minute. But beware of saying things like "Oh, Silva is too small, he won't adapt".

Arbeloa for instance? you watch his naiveness, he's not an aggressive player, is he?, yet, he has done a job for one of the best clubs of the league!

There are some stereotypes that are overrated. What it's not overrated is the strength of the premier league, which right now is the best league of the World, and only Spanish one can pose competition.

by **Sabre** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:31 pm

St Michael: He's good, but not good enough for what we need. Not in the league of Etoo and he'll never be.

Better than Ngog? yes of course.

by **Rorschach26** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:39 pm

stmichael wrote:Just a question for Sabre.

Do you think Daniel Guiza would be a good choice for us? I haven't seen a lot of him but everytime I have seen him he looks decent to me. I also don't think he'd cost the earth.

not in our league jesus were one of the best teams in the world were not in the mid 90s anymore aim higher people

by **Rorschach26** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:44 pm

bavlondon wrote:As I said in the rumors section Sturridge is available on a free. He would make a good backup striker. But otherwise we still need an established striker to partner Torres. Someone who can act as a target man and hold the ball up. Someone like Crouchy, I was thinking Fernando Llorente.

Two great shouts

Sturrigde on a free would be a cert 4 me

by **Rorschach26** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:49 pm

bavlondon wrote:
Alex G. wrote:
bavlondon wrote:As I said in the rumors section Sturridge is available on a free. He would make a good backup striker. But otherwise we still need an established striker to partner Torres. Someone who can act as a target man and hold the ball up. Someone like Crouchy, I was thinking Fernando Llorente.

Fernando Llorente is an amazing player, and perfect for the english league. He´s tall, good header, strong, and very skilful with the foots.
He´s from my city and he´s the local hero here, but I think he wouldn´t cost more than 10-14 millions.

Crouch is worst than him but probably cheaper.

Yeah he could play the same role Crouch played but obviously as you say he is a better player. I wouldn't want someone like Torres like for like as that would mean he probably couldn't fit in the current system when Torres is in the first team.

Rafa likes big men too, he had Carew before, then Crouch....

lol yeh imgaine havin 2 Torres up front.......2 world class strikers with Gerrards & Alonsos passing ability r thatd be a nightmare scenario

wed be relegated 4 sure

by **Rorschach26** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:01 pm

bunglemark2 wrote:Crouch, no bleedin' way....he wasn't happy playing second fiddle to Torres before he left, so he certainly won't come back.
Owen....hmmmmm....dunno - he's a bit of a Darren Anderton sick-note, isn't he ?
Reyes.....interesting, but where is he now ? And would he come back to the Premiership ?

I'd still like to see one of the Reserves thrust into the limelight. Many have stepped up to that level in the past. It'd cost thing and could be a stroke of genius...

Next year i reckon well see Nemeth & Pacheco more

Nemeth has had an injury ravaged year thats stopped him from gettin afew outing this year like Spearing & afew others & Pacheco was always gonna be held back longer just because of his stature same as Bruna but theyve both come on alot this year

Thatd be what id do get Hernandes 4 about 20 million & have Nemth & Pacheco make up the 4 forwards keep Babel on the left side as back up 2 Riera

by **Rorschach26** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:19 pm

john craig wrote:I'm gonna mention Eto'o again here. I don't think he's unrealistic to be honest. Contract's running down and Guardiola's already tried to offload him once.

If it doesn't happen I don't think it'll be because of us not willing to pay the fee (which would be 15-20 million bracket probably), or because of Barce not wanting to sell. It'll come down to the player and where he wants to go.

Years ago Houllier tried to sign him before he joined Barce and he turned us down making some comment about English weather. I'm sure he also had some non-complementary things to say about English football.

The fact is though that our stock has risen so much throughout Europe now that attracting these types of player is not beyond us anymore. Anyway, my take on it is if Eto'o fancies this move it'll happen. Watch City try and hijack it though.

Personally I don't give a feck what people say about Eto'o's attitude, he's a world class striker perfectly suited to English football imo. If we signed him and nobody else this summer, I'd be happy.

Didnt know all that about his contract i thought Barca would be shovin a new contract in his face

1 who should be looked at by Raffa 4 sure

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:37 pm

GYBS wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
stmichael wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Apart from that if we got the cash go for someone like villa ?

Doesn't work well with Torres anyway.

? didn't they win euros ? together ? now ya just being picky.

Torres had his best game for spain in the euros when villa couldnt play in the final and Fabregas played behind torres- villa and torres dont work well in the fact that you loose a lot of torres main game when he plays with villa or in fact a strike partner.

na they do well together 100% sure on it few international games won't prove to me they can't do well at club level.

Its all a matter of time and they both have loads of that to spare.

Villa likes to drop off and torres likes the ball over top so seems good ballance to me.

by **aCe'** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:41 pm

lets see... mmm..

- ANTONIO CASSANO... plays the gerrard role and the torres role... been compared to maradona and pele recently by a Brazil legend (a one man team basically)

- Adriano... get him interested and he could very well become one of the best forwards in the world.. doubt inter would mind selling

- Owen...

- pavlyuchenko(sp?)... no idea why they arent playing him at spurs but he definately has the ability to be playing at the very top level..

- podolski ... good player with a brilliant left foot... shouldnt cost much i wouldnt think

those should be within the 10mill or so bracket... if we spend anything more than 12, 13mill on a forward and stick with the 4-5-1 with Torres upfront alone it would be a waste,,, if we decide to go 2 upfront we shouldnt have a problem spending a little more... Etoó, Villa, Aguero, RVP and the likes would then become the better options... if i had to pick one it would have to be Owen though... Cassano a close 2nd..

by **Owzat** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:11 pm

Sabre wrote:
woof woof ! wrote:
I think "Premiership experience" is a massively over-rated factor

Not suggesting that Prem experience in the "be all and end all" , Torres and Keane are would debunk any such assertion that no prem experience invites failure whilst previous prem exp guarantees success. However a player that is already acclimitised to the rigors of english football , life in the uk, and speaks the language surely has a better chance of succeeding than a player of equal ability who has never played in england , lived here or speaks the language ? .

Yes, but given the amount of foreign players this league has, which I think it has the highest foreign ratio in Europe, then we can't really say it's especially difficult to adapt.

It's not the Torres or Keane the ones who debunk the theory, but the Luis Garcias, the Bellainis, the Benayouns, some of these players, small physically or coming from small leagues like Belgium are the ones who prove that it's an overrated factor. Note the overrated, it's a factor, but it's given too much importance.

Sure some players will fail to adapt, but that may happen to Rush in Italy, or to Finnan in Spain, or to Morientes in England.

Nail on the head. Besides anything else it would be daft to limit your "search" to the confines of the Premiership rather than look at better quality elsewhere. Premiership is ONE league, even if it is "dominant" in Europe doesn't mean there's more talent in ONE league than all the other European leagues.

And where did Vidic, Agger, Skrtel, Evra, Ronaldo, Fabregas, Santa Cruz, Torres, Adebayor, Eduardo, Sanli, Robinho, Zaki etc come from? Some people wax lyrical about the Premiership, "best", "most exciting" etc league in the world, irony being that it gets talked about like that by a lot of people yet all that's happened is the clubs have pilfered the best from the rest. While our club sides may be dominant, our national side reflects the quality of English players and the importance of foreign imports to our domestic league. It isn't that they are signed and learn to be excellent players while here, they are already excellent players. Key point from that should be that it's down to each individual how long it takes them to adapt, can be an age thing, can just be an individual thing.

If Torres hadn't settled straight away, should we have sold him or trusted that he was quality and persisted?

To be perfectly honest we're not likely to sign top quality, Premiership experienced strikers from Chelsea, Arsenal or Man Utd as they probably won't sell to us. So that doesn't exactly leave huge amounts of quality to choose from. Citeh will soon look to snap that up, I doubt Hughes has the experience of fergie or Wenger when it comes to tapping the talents of Europe. There's also the small matter of fees, the over-pricing effect of Premiership (experience) Pay £18m+ for a Barry, Santa Cruz, Keane or the like, or seek better value or pay that bit extra for European quality?

But I guess all the top flight managers must be wrong. Around 50% of the Premiership players come from outside the home nations. Even the English players (about 36%) don't necessarily get signed with Premiership experience.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:04 pm

aCe' wrote:- ANTONIO CASSANO... plays the gerrard role and the torres role... been compared to maradona and pele recently by a Brazil legend (a one man team basically)

Dear Sir
In respones to your comment I can only say one thing no fecking way.
All the best Common Sense

PS. watch this to see why
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ9k_U7zWS8&feature=related

Ronaldo is a man who acts like a girl
CASSANO is a girl who acts like a Ronaldo

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