Liverpool FC Forum

by **Sabre** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:16 pm

I can understand that a fellow red is worried by too many players in the team. I too hope that Rafa sorts it out now he has set new rules in the new contract.

However mates, UEFA talking about it is outrageous. I'll explain why, the point is simple:

In my country there are hundreds of Segunda B and Segunda and even Valencia players without getting their wages due to the economic crisis. It strikes my attention that UEFA worries about the players that are paid in Liverpool, and says nothing about the situation of those unpaid players.

We're talking about serious problems, players with not great wages and with mortgages. UEFA should defend those professionals and punnish the clubs that are not paying them, but no. They talk about Liverpool. I mean, come on. It's outrageous.

by **Fowler_E7** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:11 pm

Scottbot wrote:
heimdall wrote:
Fowler_E7 wrote:We have a scandalous amount of players on the books, I wouldn’t mind but how many of them are actually any good? why these kids want to sign up to top four premiership teams is beyond me, that have almost no chance of making it, they should go to a team where they will get an opportunity to play, if there any good a big club will sign them later in there careers for a transfer fee.

Totally agree, these kids must have some fecking terrible advisors.

They are blinded by the lights, wouldn't you lads be? I know I would. One of my college football academy lads has just been scouted by Chelsea, he's only 16 and currently plays left-back for Winchester City. Reading have also come in for him but he is going up to London for the final 6 weeks of the season on trial. The chances are slim but who can blame these kids for chasing their dream.

very true, i know if Liverpool came in for me as a kid it would be tough to turn down, but you have to think logically. How many kids make it through a big clubs academy these days?

by **Fowler_E7** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:12 pm

Sabre wrote:I can understand that a fellow red is worried by too many players in the team. I too hope that Rafa sorts it out now he has set new rules in the new contract.

However mates, UEFA talking about it is outrageous. I'll explain why, the point is simple:

In my country there are hundreds of Segunda B and Segunda and even Valencia players without getting their wages due to the economic crisis. It strikes my attention that UEFA worries about the players that are paid in Liverpool, and says nothing about the situation of those unpaid players.

We're talking about serious problems, players with not great wages and with mortgages. UEFA should defend those professionals and punnish the clubs that are not paying them, but no. They talk about Liverpool. I mean, come on. It's outrageous.

isnt there a players union in spain like the PFA to deal with these types of problems?

by **Sabre** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:24 pm

Yes Fowler, there is. And there are also legal holes the clubs use that I don't have the English language level to explain

. The point is, UEFA seems too busy commenting on England teams as a whole as of late.

Now the squad size. The other day about the economic power. Yesteryear about our fans.

by **fivecups** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:52 pm

simolonge wrote:But if, at 20, like Lindfield, you’re only good enough for a struggling side in the bottom tier of English football, I don’t see how you can complain at not getting enough chances at one of the five best teams in Europe.

At the same age, Paul Anderson is doing very well in the Championship. Adam Hammill is at Blackpool in the same division. Jack Hobbs, who played five times for the Reds in his teens, is excelling for Leicester in League One.

Of course, players develop at different rates. But by this age Lindfield should be at least tempting loan deals from far better clubs. He is miles behind others of the same age, as well as someone like Daniel Pacheco, just 18, or Lauri Dalla Valle, 17.

62 players seems far too many to me - even if many of them are youth players who will hopefully be investments for the future.

Surely this point from Tomkins says it all (although not the point he's trying to make). Lindfield is never going to make it with Liverpool so why is he still on our books?

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:24 am

Ace Ventura wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:I notice that the journalist compares Bolton's first team squad to our first team squad AND reserves...

It's awfully easy to come up with figures when you quietly add untruths to the mix.

Still - they can't moan about our play at the minute, so it was to be expected that they'd try and find something else...

You may be right about the comparison with Bolton but what do you think about how many players we have registered etc ?

I'mnot particularly bothered either way. So what if we've got 30 16-18 year olds on less than £10k between them, with a view to a couple of them coming good?

It only takes one Danny Guthrie to pay for all the others.

by **yolz** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:07 am

It's not a case of hoarding young players and hoping one of them turns out to be the real deal
A youth system is in place to cultivate talent, not an investment to make money
All being said, the youth systems in the past have brought in players like owen, gerrard, carragher
At the present moment, not only are there no new faces from the youth system making any impact,
Rafa has opted to buy players instead of promoting them
Granted that there might be no young players good enough, or that instant results are required and thus players with proven records are brought in.
However, a good manager should be able to groom talent, not just buy it
A squad of maybe 40 would be understandable, but 62?
That's just a little over-board

by **RobinHood6969** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:00 am

I think Rafa should field our youth teamers atleast in carling cup n all. For example Darby could have been played when arbi was injured. That never happened.
And UEFA moaning about our squad size is rat :censored:

. As Sabre mentioned why not criticise Valencia whenthey dont pay the salariesfor ages, instead focus on our squad size?

by **DanAn** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:59 am

I agree our squad is too big. We should have enough to players to field a senior team, reserve team and U18 team. Including bench that's about 50 players.

Take a look at the No. of Keeper we have
Pepe Reina
Diego Cavalieri
David Martin
Nikolay Mihaylov
Martin Hansen
Péter Gulácsi
Charles Itandje
Dean Bouzanis
Hakan Duyan
Deale Chamberlain
Chris Oldfield

That's 11 keepers at Liverpool and quite frankly I don't understand why we need more than 6 and we're probably better off with 4 or 5. WTF do we need 11 for? It's rediculous, we should let go of Martin, Mihaylov, Hansen, Itandje and Duyan at the very least.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:19 am

DanAn wrote:I agree our squad is too big. We should have enough to players to field a senior team, reserve team and U18 team. Including bench that's about 50 players.

Take a look at the No. of Keeper we have
Pepe Reina
Diego Cavalieri
David Martin
Nikolay Mihaylov
Martin Hansen
Péter Gulácsi
Charles Itandje
Dean Bouzanis
Hakan Duyan
Deale Chamberlain
Chris Oldfield

That's 11 keepers at Liverpool and quite frankly I don't understand why we need more than 6 and we're probably better off with 4 or 5. WTF do we need 11 for? It's rediculous, we should let go of Martin, Mihaylov, Hansen, Itandje and Duyan at the very least.

Itandge is still here?

anyway who are the last 3 - Hakan, Deale and Chris? never heard of them.

by **JoeTerp** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:53 am

keepers for the U18s

We bought Deale this summer, I believe he has played for England at youth level.

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:58 am

yolz wrote:It's not a case of hoarding young players and hoping one of them turns out to be the real deal
A youth system is in place to cultivate talent, not an investment to make money
All being said, the youth systems in the past have brought in players like owen, gerrard, carragher
At the present moment, not only are there no new faces from the youth system making any impact,
Rafa has opted to buy players instead of promoting them
Granted that there might be no young players good enough, or that instant results are required and thus players with proven records are brought in.
However, a good manager should be able to groom talent, not just buy it
A squad of maybe 40 would be understandable, but 62?
That's just a little over-board

On the size of the team, fair enough.

But in what you say that a good manager should groom talent not only buy it, yes, but it's not easy.

Barcelona has had some managers in the past 8 years, but none of them were responsible for the Messis and Bojan Krcics, the reason of those players was a very good infrastucture with very good scouts. The lads there have education, school, are paid their studies. Imagine Arteta was removed off my town and he was not good enough for Barcelona's first team! they really were able to gather the best.

Also consider how are the historical youth systems of Europe, Ajax in Holland or Nantes in France. Those are difficult days to compete, because competing with money is very difficult. It's not an easy job to have a succesful youth system.

My point is mate is that you need more than a manager's good eye to achieve that, it requires an infrastructure and a work well done. It's very very difficult in a top team to see youth these days. Sure, it's Rafa's task to get that being done, but that cannot be done in little time, and you normally have to wait for results.

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 8:58 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:I notice that the journalist compares Bolton's first team squad to our first team squad AND reserves...

It's awfully easy to come up with figures when you quietly add untruths to the mix.

Still - they can't moan about our play at the minute, so it was to be expected that they'd try and find something else...

You may be right about the comparison with Bolton but what do you think about how many players we have registered etc ?

I'mnot particularly bothered either way. So what if we've got 30 16-18 year olds on less than £10k between them, with a view to a couple of them coming good?

It only takes one Danny Guthrie to pay for all the others.

Its not all about money though Lando.

The way we treat these supposed young startlets is poor by the sounds of it.

And it may affect our ability in the future to attract young players.

by **simolonge** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:15 am

Ace Ventura wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:
Ace Ventura wrote:
Lando_Griffin wrote:I notice that the journalist compares Bolton's first team squad to our first team squad AND reserves...

It's awfully easy to come up with figures when you quietly add untruths to the mix.

Still - they can't moan about our play at the minute, so it was to be expected that they'd try and find something else...

You may be right about the comparison with Bolton but what do you think about how many players we have registered etc ?

I'mnot particularly bothered either way. So what if we've got 30 16-18 year olds on less than £10k between them, with a view to a couple of them coming good?

It only takes one Danny Guthrie to pay for all the others.

Its not all about money though Lando.

The way we treat these supposed young startlets is poor by the sounds of it.

And it may affect our ability in the future to attract young players.

What sound of what Ace ?

If you mean the comments of Antwi then he isnt the first and wont be the last player to have not made it at a club and bemoaned his lack of opportunitites or dismay at the mamnagement of his career.

These kids are treated like royalty - I know this because I have a family friend that has been through the system at Liverpool. He was paid handsomely, trained expertly, and despite not making it has nothing but good things to say about his time at the club. He was also given the chance to take his pro licences from UEFA (at no cost by the way) and has since been reemployed by the club working within hte academy as a trainer.

by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:20 am

Simolonge it would be very interesting that provided you have that family friend you made a post developing what's like going through the ranks. That is, a bit what you wrote, but with more details!

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