Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

"Ideally, you would want 23 or 24 and then have academy players of a *sufficient quality to back them up. If you have more than 25, it is difficult to have a meaningful training session." Mark Hughes, Manchester City manager

"It has become all about resources. Clubs can now buy so many players that 10 or 20 guys who could be top players *elsewhere cannot play." Johan Cruyff

Those comments were made within the past fortnight on a topic that will be much debated over the coming weeks – squad sizes in professional football. Among others who have had their say is Uefa's general secretary, David Taylor, who calls the situation in English football *"ridiculous". England's record cap-holder, Peter Shilton, is "flabbergasted". Gordon Taylor, chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association, accepts that the numbers at Premier League clubs are "very high". Craig Lindfield, a Liverpool forward on loan at Accrington Stanley, finds it "frustrating". His team-mate Jack Hobbs, loaned to Leicester, finds his predicament *"demoralising" and feels "stale".

There is no Premier League rule to stop one club having more than twice as many *players as another, which is the case for Liverpool, who have the most professionals on their books and Bolton, who have the least. "Squad sizes are a matter for the clubs," is the Premier League's official line. Lindfield and Hobbs, both 20, are two of the 62 contracted players assembled by Rafael Benítez at Anfield, while Gary Megson has to make do with 27 at the Reebok Stadium. Even given the relentless, top-speed nature of Premier League football, and the demands of chasing four or five trophies, it seems a gargantuan number for any club to be able to choose from, or want to employ. And, in times of recession, to pay for.

Observer Sport's investigation into the Anfield 62, and the implications for the wider game, was met with bemusement everywhere – even from defensive *Premier League representatives – whenever the figure was mentioned.

"Ridiculous. Sixty-two? You can only field 11 at one time," said Uefa's Taylor, whose employers insist on a 25-man squad limit for the Champions League. "Work it out for yourself. Training would be interesting with all these guys *running about looking for 11 jerseys – you could have two full-size practise games." With plenty of substitutes.

Taylor is right. Even without the 17 players who have been on loan this *season (see panel below) Benítez is left with 45, nearly twice as many as Hughes's ideal number of 24, a figure José *Mourinho also insisted on when he began his *successful tenure at *Chelsea in 2004, while Luiz Felipe Scolari named between 23 and 25 as his ideal squad size when he took over at Stamford Bridge.

Should the Premier League clubs have a limit? "That's what we do in our *competitions," said Taylor. "But that's for organisers of domestic leagues to decide among the clubs. We think it has *benefits, it allows the introduction of other rules – like home-grown *players. It's not just squad size itself, but the *beneficial *effect it can have, particularly on young and local talent. So the two measures go *together.

"Uefa has been in the vanguard of this and we certainly feel it's very useful."

Taylor's comments echoed last week's views from William Gaillard, special *adviser to the Uefa president, Michel Platini. "One proposal, which seems to be gaining a consensus, is limiting [the number of] professional contracts as we already do in the Champions League," Gaillard said. "But we would need to get the backing of the major clubs, of the associations running their domestic competitions."

Taylor was unsure what benefit *Liverpool might gain from having so many professionals. "You'd have to ask them," he said. The club, when asked precisely this question, declined to *comment. "It's an open question as to how many you actually need," said *Taylor. "Is it 20, 25?"

Certainly not 62, then. It is not only Liverpool who have dozens on the payroll. Unsurprisingly, the other members of the Premier League's Big Four, who tend to hoover up all the major trophies, have the largest squads. According to their own official websites Arsenal can call on 59 players, Manchester United 51, Chelsea 46.

Liverpool, though, lead the way. *According to most recent figures from Deloittes, the accountants who *specialise in football, Liverpool paid out more than £77.5m in players' wages for the season ending in 2007.

A professional at a Premier League club, even one who is a long way from the reserve team, would earn a minimum of £1,000 a week, and most earn *considerably more. If 30 players were trimmed from Liverpool's squad to leave 32 – still eight more than Hughes' and Mourinho's ideal number – the saving in wages would be several million pounds. Instead, Benítez has opted for *quantity in his recruitment policy – remember the club are struggling to refinance their £350m debt by a summer deadline – and has to farm out countless players on loan.

For some, the dream of performing in front of a packed Anfield has translated into a grimmer reality of almost zero *contact with Benítez and disillusionment about the future. "I haven't spoken to Rafa in a while," confirmed Hobbs, who was 17 when he signed from Lincoln and said he played 18 matches during a season in Liverpool's reserves. Hobbs wanted to play competitive football and is, he said, happy to be now closing in on 50 Football League appearances following loans at Scunthorpe and Leicester.

Gordon Taylor, head of the players' union, said: "Remember, there's only one first team and clubs are not always *totally committed to reserve football. That means a heck of a lot of good players on the bench. We've just done a survey on the number of players loaned out. While some are successes it doesn't always work out that way."

Godwin Antwi is a 20-year-old Ghanaian defender who is concerned that his career is at a crossroads. Alongside Hobbs and Lindfield, he was a member of the Liverpool team that won the first of successive FA Youth Cups in 2006, defeating Man*chester City 3-2. He has just finished a loan spell at Hereford, his fourth club since being signed by Benítez from Real Zaragoza in 2005. This season he will play no more professional football. He is finished with Liverpool. In the summer Antwi hopes his agent, who is based in Spain, can find him a fifth and, this time, permanent club. He is desperate to play regularly.

"There's no chance of me accepting a new deal as I won't play in the first team at Liverpool. I don't know why. When I signed, Rafa and [former chief scout] Paco Herrera told me, 'Do your best.' But I can't remember the last time I spoke with Rafa, not properly *anyway."

Did he ever think the breakthrough might come? "When we won the FA Youth Cup – that was the time. City's team had Micah Richards, Michael Johnson, Ched Evans and Daniel Sturridge, all first-team players now. But Liverpool signed Daniel Agger and Martin Skrtel in my position."

Meanwhile, Lindfield is playing for Accrington Stanley, having started the season at Bournemouth after previous loans with Chester and Notts County. "I've been at Liverpool since I was seven – it's all I've known," he said. "Most young players who want to learn their trade would do it better in the lower leagues than in the reserves." This view was echoed by all the Liverpool loanees Observer Sport spoke with.

"You learn a lot more playing with people's livelihoods on the line. And it helps you mature as a person."

Lindfield, who has made 10 League starts since joining Stanley in January, was also a member of the Liverpool FA Youth Cup side and talks of it being considered a golden generation within the club. "The so-called Dream Team – Steve Heighway called us that. He was the academy head, but took a liking to our age group who were pretty much together all the way through. The under-18 coach usually does the Youth Cup, but Steve *Heighway thought that highly of us he took over."

Lindfield, like Hobbs and Anwti, mentioned the City players in the 2006 final who had gone on to establish themselves. What of that Liverpool team? "Jack Hobbs has made a few appearances, and recently there's been Jay Spearing and Stephen Darby."

The three have made a grand total of nine appearances. "That's the *difference between Liverpool and other clubs, young lads get more of a chance elsewhere," Lindfield added.

Is this because of the numbers at the club? "Yeah. It's a massive squad. All the professionals at Melwood [the club's training complex] – there's about 50 players in total," Lindfield said, somewhat underestimating the number. "There's only about nine or 10 English lads so that speaks for itself, doesn't it?"

Does that make it more difficult to get a chance? "With Liverpool *having a Spanish manager he's got a lot of *knowledge of Spanish football so he's brought in quite a lot of Spanish lads," said Lindfield. (There are nine on the books.) "Getting off to Melwood from the academy is supposedly the hardest step but you're in the reserve team of about 30 lads, and really you're as far away as you have been. It's not like the old days when there were six or seven reserves and the rest were filled by first-team players."

While Robbie Threlfall, another member of that victorious Youth Cup team, has just returned from a trial with Swedish club Djurgardens, Adam Hammill is at Barnsley having previously played on loan with Blackpool, Southampton and Dunfermline where he experienced the Scottish FA Cup final two years ago.

"At 18 you'd be naive to think you're going to break into Liverpool's first team. You'd have to be a Gerrard, Owen or Rooney. It's also a hell of a lot of pressure to be playing for your home-town team," said Hammill, a 21-year-old midfielder who has made seven League appearances since arriving at Oakwell last month.

"Darren Potter and Danny Guthrie were ahead of me [in age] and did well on loan. They ended up playing a few games for the first team. So if I do well I might get my chance. I'm a Liverpool player and want my future there. If not, well, the only way is down but you can try and work your way back up that ladder."

How do Liverpool monitor a player's development while he is on loan? "They evaluate you at the end of the season and send scouts to watch in certain games. But you don't get much feedback. The only feedback is off the manager you're playing for, your agent and your family."

Gordon Taylor and the PFA have done their own evaluation of players' careers. "Six hundred players each year join Premier and Football League clubs at age 16. Of those, 500 will be out of the game by 21. It's a big wastage and not good enough. We have got to look at improving the success rate of academies and centres of excellence.

"Those who don't make it at the top don't necessarily make it lower down. That can be a tougher set-up where skills and technique don't always count as much as strength and competitiveness. We're finding a big black hole between 19 and 21. That's a big worry to us, it's why we have to think seriously."

Taylor stressed that he was not in the business of limiting employment *opportunities, but he was keen to see some adjustments. "There's a great deal of money invested. That's why we're very much in favour of a system whereby out of a squad of 25, for example, you'd have at least eight to 10, irrespective of nationality, come through a development programme at that club or in that country."

Regarding Liverpool, he was refreshingly frank. "From the sides that won the Youth Cup, I don't know if a player was given an opportunity at first-team level. It's amazing we focus on *Stevie Gerrard and Jamie Carragher because they are just the last two homegrown players now in that team."

For central defender Hobbs, as with all those on the periphery hoping for a way in at Liverpool, this is a live issue. "I was talking to an old school teacher the other day. Look at our Youth Cup side – not one has broken into the first team. You get to a decision where you think, 'Is it worth playing reserve games and getting a little bit stale waiting for your chance? Or do you go out and get the experience?'

"He [Benítez] brought in Skrtel, and there's Agger, Carragher and Hyypia so I was down the bottom. I'm really grateful I went out on loan now and am chasing 50 League games."

Hobbs has the most first-team appearances of that 2006 side – all five came last season, including a lone Premier League start against Reading – yet the breakthrough never came. "I was thinking I could be involved a bit more. But then he [Benítez] went out and bought Skrtel for a record signing for a centre-back. It's quite demoralising when you're working to get your chance and they just buy in multi-million pound players.

"But Liverpool are one of the top clubs in the world. You wouldn't expect it to be easy. The way I look at it is if I play every game as well as I can I'm going to end up where I deserve. Ideally, I'd love to be playing for Liverpool every week, but the truth is it's going to be very difficult."

Ricky Parry, Liverpool's outgoing chief executive, is thought to have fallen out with Benítez over player recruitment. Apparently, it was a major reason why Parry was forced out. So how Parry's replacement deals with Benítez's penchant for stockpiling players could be interesting to watch. Given the background of the club's owners, the new man may be an American.

Uefa have followed the model of American sports. Major League *Soccer insists on a season-long roster of 24 players, while American football and *basketball have squad limits of 53 and 15 *respectively. With Liverpool flying in the Premier and Champions League, Benítez is all-powerful. But a trophyless season added to the dire financial climate – and who knows if Tom Hicks and George Gillett will still be in control – might at least prompt a discussion about the Anfield 62. After all, Sunderland's Texas-based owner Ellis Short was so upset on discovering he was bankrolling 47 players that it caused the departure of Roy Keane.

And any wide-ranging debate over squad size and finances might, in the long term, be good for the health of football.
LINK

I think now there is no longer any need for a dual academy with the departure of Parry, its time our squad was cut to a more manageable size. Hopefully some of the players we have signed or who have come up through the ranks will start to make an impact over the next few years, but with huge transfer budgets more the norm than the exception these days, I wouldn't bet on it.

[JoeTerp]

yes squad sizes should be smaller, and we have a lot of fat to cut, but its still a sh.ite article and terrible jorunalism. Tompkins wrote a nice reply.

[account deleted by request]

yes squad sizes should be smaller, and we have a lot of fat to cut, but its still a sh.ite article and terrible jorunalism. Tompkins wrote a nice reply.

I am not defending the article, but I find your post of  Tomkins and a nice reply totally incongruous. Each to his own I suppose.

[stmichael]

totally incongruous.

 

[JoeTerp]

well I am just saying he did a good job of pointing out how the article in the observer wasn't exactly a "fair" piece of journalism

[Ace Ventura]

Not a bad article imo.

Its one of my biggest grievances about modern day football.
Not just our club either.

To have that many players on our books is ridiculous, about half of that 62 dont have any chance of establishing themselves anyway.

There are a few young players that should be getting more time on the pitch as well, but due to the sheer size of the squad even games where you would usually play some of the kids like the league cup, they cant get in then either.
Spearing and Darby should have featured a lot more this season.
Especially seeing as though Darby plays in a position where we havent got many options.
Signings like Degen and Ngog were bizarre and must have been a real kick in the teeth to the young lads who had just won the reserve league.
The other player is Nemeth, he has had a nightmare season with injuries but looked great last year, rather than promote him to the first team as a squad player we gamble on Ngog.

Again i will say it, the squad size is a joke and Rafa is stockpiling players and treating them as commodities, they have their careers to worry about and must be incredibly disallusioned.

[Lando_Griffin]

I notice that the journalist compares Bolton's first team squad to our first team squad AND reserves...

It's awfully easy to come up with figures when you quietly add untruths to the mix.

Still - they can't moan about our play at the minute, so it was to be expected that they'd try and find something else...

[Ace Ventura]

I notice that the journalist compares Bolton's first team squad to our first team squad AND reserves...

It's awfully easy to come up with figures when you quietly add untruths to the mix.

Still - they can't moan about our play at the minute, so it was to be expected that they'd try and find something else...

You may be right about the comparison with Bolton but what do you think about how many players we have registered etc ?

[simolonge]

UEFA: take your oars and stick them where the sun doesn't shine

It wouldn’t be UEFA if they weren’t having a pop at the top English clubs. Ever since the top sides became Europe’s elite, it seems that they are scrabbling to rewrite the rule book.

Now, with UEFA sticking their mighty oars in once more, Liverpool are being criticised for having a squad of “62 professionals”. Nothing is said about top Spanish clubs running two different professional sides, with a reserve team that competes in the lower leagues.

In slating Liverpool, UEFA are ignoring that the vast majority are teenagers who are only too happy to have a professional contract at that age, even though most know that their future will ultimately lie elsewhere.

No-one forces them to sign pro terms at such a great club, the poor lambs. And no-one promises them first-team football. And if their maths is any good, they will see how many players stand in their way of success. That’s modern football.

That so many of those players blocking their path to the first team are top internationals may be dispiriting. But does this mean Liverpool should only sign mediocre players instead?

If Torres being so good is off-putting to a youngster, that’s hardly the manager’s fault; it’s not like he’s going to swap Torres for Kevin Davies instead, to make the kids more optimistic.

And anyway, the very best will know that they will break through regardless. They will aspire to partner Torres, or if they really fancy themselves, displace him.

With less money to spend (Liverpool’s squad cost £80m less to assemble than United’s or Chelsea’s, and far less than even Spurs’ and Manchester City’s), Benítez is playing a percentage game with the young talent on the books.

And anyone who knows about players like Pacheco and Nemeth knows that there is some real quality about to come through into the first team.

These two, and Lauri Dalla Valle (whom Chelsea offered £1m to sign for them aged 16), are the best young striking talents I’ve seen coming through since Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler. Nemeth and Dalla Valle are supremely natural goalscorers, and Pacheco is a little magician: a young Luis Garcia, but with pace.

They all look the part, even if they can’t all become first-team regulars, particularly if Fernando Torres is still around; you can’t play four strikers at once. But if they develop as hoped, they can all stake a claim.

Craig Lindfield, complaining to the Observer (who ran a large piece on the situation), said: "That's the difference between Liverpool and other clubs, young lads get more of a chance elsewhere."

Do they at Chelsea?

And at Manchester United?

These are the teams Liverpool are competing with.

It’s a long time since United brought through scores of youngsters, and their strongest XI contains no home-grown kids from this decade, although Brown and Fletcher are important players. Yes, their younger players, like Rafael, get opportunities, and some have become valuable squad players, but that’s also the case at Liverpool.

Lindfield, 20, is on loan at Accrington Stanley. In many ways that says it all; he was a decent youth player, but a million miles from where Liverpool need a striker to be in terms of quality.

Godwin Antwi has had enough of being farmed out, moaning that the Manchester City players beaten in the 2006 FA Youth Cup Final have had more chances than his Liverpool team-mates.

Micah Richards, Michael Johnson, Ched Evans and Daniel Sturridge are those he names, and yet to me, each, bar Evans, looked like great players. Liverpool, by contrast (and as I said at the time), appeared to have eleven very good players, and a better team spirit.

There was no-one of Richards’ ability in Liverpool’s XI. It’s great to win the youth cup, but better to lose it and have three outstanding players instead. And even then, Manchester City were a mediocre mid-table side when these lads broke through to the first team; they didn’t have players like Gerrard, Torres, Alonso, Carragher, Mascherano, et al, in their respective positions.

For me, Adam Hammill, also talking to the Observer, hit the nail on the head:

“At 18 you'd be naive to think you're going to break into Liverpool's first team. You'd have to be a Gerrard, Owen or Rooney. It's also a hell of a lot of pressure to be playing for your home-town team. Darren Potter and Danny Guthrie were ahead of me [in age] and did well on loan. They ended up playing a few games for the first team. So if I do well I might get my chance. I'm a Liverpool player and want my future there. If not, well, the only way is down but you can try and work your way back up that ladder."

Jack Hobbs felt dispirited, but realistic: “[...] But Liverpool are one of the top clubs in the world. You wouldn't expect it to be easy. The way I look at it is if I play every game as well as I can I'm going to end up where I deserve. Ideally, I'd love to be playing for Liverpool every week, but the truth is it's going to be very difficult."

This is key: do the best you can and you will end up where you deserve. A manager just wants the best players with the best attitudes; he has no agendas. He can’t afford to have any.

Loan deals are important to the development of players; they are not, as many suggest, a precursor to a sale unless that player is older and on big wages (like Pennant). They are an education. But only so many can graduate with honours.

But if, at 20, like Lindfield, you’re only good enough for a struggling side in the bottom tier of English football, I don’t see how you can complain at not getting enough chances at one of the five best teams in Europe.

At the same age, Paul Anderson is doing very well in the Championship. Adam Hammill is at Blackpool in the same division. Jack Hobbs, who played five times for the Reds in his teens, is excelling for Leicester in League One.

This is the route to success taken by David Beckham, Frank Lampard and John Terry.



Of course, players develop at different rates. But by this age Lindfield should be at least tempting loan deals from far better clubs. He is miles behind others of the same age, as well as someone like Daniel Pacheco, just 18, or Lauri Dalla Valle, 17.

I don’t like this idea that young players don’t get a chance at Liverpool. Rafa Benítez has a background in youth development and has only now got full control of the Academy. He is very keen on bringing through top talent, particularly with less money to spend than some of his rivals, and the situation unlikely to change.

A problem for him dates back to a lack of really special young players in the system when he took over; in recent years that situation has improved, but mainly thanks to the scouting department.

However, it takes time for those scouted to develop, and Liverpool’s first team is not very old to start with; there’s only one regular in his 30s, and that’s Jamie Carragher. And in reserve, there are no 30-somethings beyond Sami Hyypia.

With players like Torres, Arbeloa, Reina, Alonso, Mascherano, Riera, Babel, Skrtel, Lucas and Agger all mid-20s or younger, it becomes harder to throw in a load of kids, particularly when the pressure to win the title is as great as it is now. Once you’ve already won it, it becomes easier to blood the youngsters, as you have a bit of breathing space.

In a year or two, these kids will be older, as will the aforementioned first-teamers. Their chances will come.

And let’s face it, Benítez doesn’t have time to go down the Arsenal route. The Gunners are famed for giving young players a go, but it’s a process that has arguably held them back from winning trophies in recent years. And the problem with it is that the best players, like Cesc Fabregas, can grow impatient.

It takes years to achieve what Wenger is trying to do, but it can be undermined if, before the group matures, its key figures are lured elsewhere. That way, the team never comes of age, and we’re always talking about “in three or four years’ time...”, as we were four years ago with Arsenal.

What Benítez is trying to do is mix that long-term planning with the ability to compete in the here-and-now; after all, he doesn’t have the goodwill in the bank that three league titles have earned for Wenger (although the natives grow restless).

The other end of the spectrum is Chelsea, with a bigger squad of established professionals and a far, far higher wage bill; but with all of their best players either edging towards their 30s, or already in the twilight years of their careers, their squad now looks horribly unbalanced. They can still field an exceptional side, but you sense major surgery is required before too long.

Liverpool cannot afford such a weighty, ‘senior’ squad. It has to be more of a mix of established players and young hopefuls. And at this stage of their careers, I’d guess that 30 of Liverpool’s squad of 62 can probably be employed for a combined weekly total amounting to less than what Michael Ballack earns.

The problem with young players, however, is that some will fail to develop (either physically or mentally), others will lose their way and think they’ve made it after a couple of first-team games, and some will get held back by injuries. So you need a large pool to choose from, and wait for the strongest to survive.

This season, Emiliano Insua, who has just turned 20, has made the first-team breakthrough, getting a run of important games before Argentina called him away to an U20 tournament. We knew he was special when he arrived as a 17-year-old.

Nabil El Zhar, 22, has featured far more than expected, and had some very good cameo appearances.

David Ngog, 19, has played a lot of football for the Reds; he’s not the finished article, but he’s scored in the league and the Champions League. Against Sunderland he showed great technique, with some lovely bits of skill, and is definitely one for the future, who, at the very worst, can do a job in the present.

Jay Spearing, 20, has made his Champions League debut and come on against Real Madrid. Damien Plessis, just turned 21, has played several times in the first team. Stephen Darby, 20, has played in the first team this season, as has Martin Kelly, 18.

And by first team, I do not mean in the Carling Cup. I mean the league and the Champions League.

Krisztián Németh, 20, was due to make the breakthrough this season, but missed the first five months with injury. Already called up for the Hungarian national team, he then went to Blackpool on loan but had his cheekbone broken 60 seconds into his debut.

This is a player who was excelling in the Hungarian top league at the age of 17, and who was sensational for the Reds’ reserves last year. His loan to Blackpool was for just one month, to get him fit for Liverpool’s first-team squad. But he got clattered by some hairy-arsed centre-back.

Francisco Durán, a very gifted midfield playmaker aged 20, is possibly the most naturally talented of the lot, but has had terrible luck with injuries. If he gets fit, watch this space....

Many of these players are the future of the club. Each is getting a great education by training with the first team at Melwood. Those who don’t make the grade can take what they’ve learned from Europe’s top coaches and apply it elsewhere. They get a good move, and Liverpool might get a handy fee.

If only two or three of these players are regular starters for Liverpool in 2011, that’ll make it all a big success.

But it seems to me that if Liverpool went out and bought a load of £20m players, UEFA would moan.

Now, by giving squad numbers and basic professional contracts to lots of kids, and looking to bring youth through, UEFA are moaning.

Seems that’s what UEFA does best.

[heimdall]

So is wasting money a good thing then? 63 players!! WTF is the point in that when we still don't have an out and out right winger??

This is where Rafa does p1ss me off and I've said it before about him not promoting the young players enough, they can't all be garbage and if they are then we need new scouts.

[Ace Ventura]

UEFA: take your oars and stick them where the sun doesn't shine

It wouldn’t be UEFA if they weren’t having a pop at the top English clubs. Ever since the top sides became Europe’s elite, it seems that they are scrabbling to rewrite the rule book.

Now, with UEFA sticking their mighty oars in once more, Liverpool are being criticised for having a squad of “62 professionals”. Nothing is said about top Spanish clubs running two different professional sides, with a reserve team that competes in the lower leagues.

In slating Liverpool, UEFA are ignoring that the vast majority are teenagers who are only too happy to have a professional contract at that age, even though most know that their future will ultimately lie elsewhere.

No-one forces them to sign pro terms at such a great club, the poor lambs. And no-one promises them first-team football. And if their maths is any good, they will see how many players stand in their way of success. That’s modern football.

That so many of those players blocking their path to the first team are top internationals may be dispiriting. But does this mean Liverpool should only sign mediocre players instead?

If Torres being so good is off-putting to a youngster, that’s hardly the manager’s fault; it’s not like he’s going to swap Torres for Kevin Davies instead, to make the kids more optimistic.

And anyway, the very best will know that they will break through regardless. They will aspire to partner Torres, or if they really fancy themselves, displace him.

With less money to spend (Liverpool’s squad cost £80m less to assemble than United’s or Chelsea’s, and far less than even Spurs’ and Manchester City’s), Benítez is playing a percentage game with the young talent on the books.

And anyone who knows about players like Pacheco and Nemeth knows that there is some real quality about to come through into the first team.

These two, and Lauri Dalla Valle (whom Chelsea offered £1m to sign for them aged 16), are the best young striking talents I’ve seen coming through since Michael Owen and Robbie Fowler. Nemeth and Dalla Valle are supremely natural goalscorers, and Pacheco is a little magician: a young Luis Garcia, but with pace.

They all look the part, even if they can’t all become first-team regulars, particularly if Fernando Torres is still around; you can’t play four strikers at once. But if they develop as hoped, they can all stake a claim.

Craig Lindfield, complaining to the Observer (who ran a large piece on the situation), said: "That's the difference between Liverpool and other clubs, young lads get more of a chance elsewhere."

Do they at Chelsea?

And at Manchester United?

These are the teams Liverpool are competing with.

It’s a long time since United brought through scores of youngsters, and their strongest XI contains no home-grown kids from this decade, although Brown and Fletcher are important players. Yes, their younger players, like Rafael, get opportunities, and some have become valuable squad players, but that’s also the case at Liverpool.

Lindfield, 20, is on loan at Accrington Stanley. In many ways that says it all; he was a decent youth player, but a million miles from where Liverpool need a striker to be in terms of quality.

Godwin Antwi has had enough of being farmed out, moaning that the Manchester City players beaten in the 2006 FA Youth Cup Final have had more chances than his Liverpool team-mates.

Micah Richards, Michael Johnson, Ched Evans and Daniel Sturridge are those he names, and yet to me, each, bar Evans, looked like great players. Liverpool, by contrast (and as I said at the time), appeared to have eleven very good players, and a better team spirit.

There was no-one of Richards’ ability in Liverpool’s XI. It’s great to win the youth cup, but better to lose it and have three outstanding players instead. And even then, Manchester City were a mediocre mid-table side when these lads broke through to the first team; they didn’t have players like Gerrard, Torres, Alonso, Carragher, Mascherano, et al, in their respective positions.

For me, Adam Hammill, also talking to the Observer, hit the nail on the head:

“At 18 you'd be naive to think you're going to break into Liverpool's first team. You'd have to be a Gerrard, Owen or Rooney. It's also a hell of a lot of pressure to be playing for your home-town team. Darren Potter and Danny Guthrie were ahead of me [in age] and did well on loan. They ended up playing a few games for the first team. So if I do well I might get my chance. I'm a Liverpool player and want my future there. If not, well, the only way is down but you can try and work your way back up that ladder."

Jack Hobbs felt dispirited, but realistic: “[...] But Liverpool are one of the top clubs in the world. You wouldn't expect it to be easy. The way I look at it is if I play every game as well as I can I'm going to end up where I deserve. Ideally, I'd love to be playing for Liverpool every week, but the truth is it's going to be very difficult."

This is key: do the best you can and you will end up where you deserve. A manager just wants the best players with the best attitudes; he has no agendas. He can’t afford to have any.

Loan deals are important to the development of players; they are not, as many suggest, a precursor to a sale unless that player is older and on big wages (like Pennant). They are an education. But only so many can graduate with honours.

But if, at 20, like Lindfield, you’re only good enough for a struggling side in the bottom tier of English football, I don’t see how you can complain at not getting enough chances at one of the five best teams in Europe.

At the same age, Paul Anderson is doing very well in the Championship. Adam Hammill is at Blackpool in the same division. Jack Hobbs, who played five times for the Reds in his teens, is excelling for Leicester in League One.

This is the route to success taken by David Beckham, Frank Lampard and John Terry.



Of course, players develop at different rates. But by this age Lindfield should be at least tempting loan deals from far better clubs. He is miles behind others of the same age, as well as someone like Daniel Pacheco, just 18, or Lauri Dalla Valle, 17.

I don’t like this idea that young players don’t get a chance at Liverpool. Rafa Benítez has a background in youth development and has only now got full control of the Academy. He is very keen on bringing through top talent, particularly with less money to spend than some of his rivals, and the situation unlikely to change.

A problem for him dates back to a lack of really special young players in the system when he took over; in recent years that situation has improved, but mainly thanks to the scouting department.

However, it takes time for those scouted to develop, and Liverpool’s first team is not very old to start with; there’s only one regular in his 30s, and that’s Jamie Carragher. And in reserve, there are no 30-somethings beyond Sami Hyypia.

With players like Torres, Arbeloa, Reina, Alonso, Mascherano, Riera, Babel, Skrtel, Lucas and Agger all mid-20s or younger, it becomes harder to throw in a load of kids, particularly when the pressure to win the title is as great as it is now. Once you’ve already won it, it becomes easier to blood the youngsters, as you have a bit of breathing space.

In a year or two, these kids will be older, as will the aforementioned first-teamers. Their chances will come.

And let’s face it, Benítez doesn’t have time to go down the Arsenal route. The Gunners are famed for giving young players a go, but it’s a process that has arguably held them back from winning trophies in recent years. And the problem with it is that the best players, like Cesc Fabregas, can grow impatient.

It takes years to achieve what Wenger is trying to do, but it can be undermined if, before the group matures, its key figures are lured elsewhere. That way, the team never comes of age, and we’re always talking about “in three or four years’ time...”, as we were four years ago with Arsenal.

What Benítez is trying to do is mix that long-term planning with the ability to compete in the here-and-now; after all, he doesn’t have the goodwill in the bank that three league titles have earned for Wenger (although the natives grow restless).

The other end of the spectrum is Chelsea, with a bigger squad of established professionals and a far, far higher wage bill; but with all of their best players either edging towards their 30s, or already in the twilight years of their careers, their squad now looks horribly unbalanced. They can still field an exceptional side, but you sense major surgery is required before too long.

Liverpool cannot afford such a weighty, ‘senior’ squad. It has to be more of a mix of established players and young hopefuls. And at this stage of their careers, I’d guess that 30 of Liverpool’s squad of 62 can probably be employed for a combined weekly total amounting to less than what Michael Ballack earns.

The problem with young players, however, is that some will fail to develop (either physically or mentally), others will lose their way and think they’ve made it after a couple of first-team games, and some will get held back by injuries. So you need a large pool to choose from, and wait for the strongest to survive.

This season, Emiliano Insua, who has just turned 20, has made the first-team breakthrough, getting a run of important games before Argentina called him away to an U20 tournament. We knew he was special when he arrived as a 17-year-old.

Nabil El Zhar, 22, has featured far more than expected, and had some very good cameo appearances.

David Ngog, 19, has played a lot of football for the Reds; he’s not the finished article, but he’s scored in the league and the Champions League. Against Sunderland he showed great technique, with some lovely bits of skill, and is definitely one for the future, who, at the very worst, can do a job in the present.

Jay Spearing, 20, has made his Champions League debut and come on against Real Madrid. Damien Plessis, just turned 21, has played several times in the first team. Stephen Darby, 20, has played in the first team this season, as has Martin Kelly, 18.

And by first team, I do not mean in the Carling Cup. I mean the league and the Champions League.

Krisztián Németh, 20, was due to make the breakthrough this season, but missed the first five months with injury. Already called up for the Hungarian national team, he then went to Blackpool on loan but had his cheekbone broken 60 seconds into his debut.

This is a player who was excelling in the Hungarian top league at the age of 17, and who was sensational for the Reds’ reserves last year. His loan to Blackpool was for just one month, to get him fit for Liverpool’s first-team squad. But he got clattered by some hairy-arsed centre-back.

Francisco Durán, a very gifted midfield playmaker aged 20, is possibly the most naturally talented of the lot, but has had terrible luck with injuries. If he gets fit, watch this space....

Many of these players are the future of the club. Each is getting a great education by training with the first team at Melwood. Those who don’t make the grade can take what they’ve learned from Europe’s top coaches and apply it elsewhere. They get a good move, and Liverpool might get a handy fee.

If only two or three of these players are regular starters for Liverpool in 2011, that’ll make it all a big success.

But it seems to me that if Liverpool went out and bought a load of £20m players, UEFA would moan.

Now, by giving squad numbers and basic professional contracts to lots of kids, and looking to bring youth through, UEFA are moaning.

Seems that’s what UEFA does best.

This is a real well thought out and interesting post, enjoyed reading that...seriously.

But i actually disagree with it.

It was a bit like reading one of Tomkins articles on the offal.
A good read but seems too biased to me.
This scattergun approach with youngsters seems to me more like gamble after gamble or guesswork.
Now i understand that players do develop at different rates as will their bodies etc.
But to me signing dozens of supposedly highly promising young players and farming them out on loan with not much contact doesnt seem like there is much thought or planning going into it, more like Rafa is just hoping that someone comes good.
Also the signing of so many options/possibility players means that the actual first team squad is that vast that the brighter young talents cant even make the bench most of the time, and we are allowed 7 subs now.
It must be incredibly frustrating for a young player at Liverpool.
How Stephen Darby has not been selected more is beyond me, Arbeloa has been injured a few times this season and Rafa has opted for playing centre halves out of position rather than trust one of the younger players.
The same with Spearing, when we had a problem with centre midfield away at Portsmouth instead of giving him a go he went with Aurellio in midfield.
Fabio did a job but if the young players cant get in in those circumstances then when will they ?
You mentioned that the acadamy players will have a better chance of breaking through now Rafa has full control....by this do you mean that he has been ignoring young players due to his annoyance that he wasnt totally in control ?

If that was the case that would seem very stubborn and not good at all.

But like i said i enjoyed your post, just dont agree with it 

[Fowler_E7]

We have a scandalous amount of players on the books, I wouldn’t mind but how many of them are actually any good? why these kids want to sign up to top four premiership teams is beyond me, that have almost no chance of making it, they should go to a team where they will get an opportunity to play, if there any good a big club will sign them later in there careers for a transfer fee.

[heimdall]

We have a scandalous amount of players on the books, I wouldn’t mind but how many of them are actually any good? why these kids want to sign up to top four premiership teams is beyond me, that have almost no chance of making it, they should go to a team where they will get an opportunity to play, if there any good a big club will sign them later in there careers for a transfer fee.

Totally agree, these kids must have some fecking terrible advisors.

[tubby]

Either that or Rafas scouts are not up to par.

[Scottbot]

We have a scandalous amount of players on the books, I wouldn’t mind but how many of them are actually any good? why these kids want to sign up to top four premiership teams is beyond me, that have almost no chance of making it, they should go to a team where they will get an opportunity to play, if there any good a big club will sign them later in there careers for a transfer fee.

Totally agree, these kids must have some fecking terrible advisors.

They are blinded by the lights, wouldn't you lads be? I know I would. One of my college football academy lads has just been scouted by Chelsea, he's only 16 and currently plays left-back for Winchester City. Reading have also come in for him but he is going up to London for the final 6 weeks of the season on trial. The chances are slim but who can blame these kids for chasing their dream.