Liverpool FC Forum

by **Fowler_E7** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:53 pm

On current form he's probably the best there is at the moment in world football, so he would be a massive loss to any side that he played in. We rely on him way to much to score and create goals, and this is a massive problem in games where teams put 10 men behind the ball, because a lot of the times Gerrard is the only who can do something special to open a team up, especially when Torres was injured.

As for where we would finish without him, well id say we would still finish fourth but we would be miles of the top of the league. The reason i think we still qualify for the champions league is that we still have some high quality players like Alonso, Mascherano, Rieira, Torres a good defence and a great coach in Rafa who can get results from mediocre players (why he buys mediocre players is another subject), so were very difficlut to beat, so i dont think we would lose many, but we struggle to score goals without Gerrard. I thinks its vital that next season we bring in some offensive quality, to share the burden with Gerrard and Torres and finally make this team look complete after 5 years of trying. We can start buy getting rid of dead wood like Kuyt and Lucas etc and bring in a quality striker, an attacking midfieder a right sided midfield player and a right back, all which we desperately need. Whether we have the money or not is another problem.

Lets just pray that Gerrard is fit and healthy ASAP, other wise were in big trouble with some vital games coming up.

by **Ace Ventura** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:55 pm

Fowler_E7 wrote:On current form he's probably the best there is at the moment in world football, so he would be a massive loss to any side that he played in. We rely on him way to much to score and create goals, and this is a massive problem in games where teams put 10 men behind the ball, because a lot of the times Gerrard is the only who can do something special to open a team up, especially when Torres was injured.

As for where we would finish without him, well id say we would still finish fourth but we would be miles of the top of the league. The reason i think we still qualify for the champions league is that we still have some high quality players like Alonso, Mascherano, Rieira, Torres a good defence and a great coach in Rafa who can get results from mediocre players (why he buys mediocre players is another subject), so were very difficlut to beat, so i dont think we would lose many, but we struggle to score goals without Gerrard. I thinks its vital that next season we bring in some offensive quality, to share the burden with Gerrard and Torres and finally make this team look complete after 5 years of trying. We can start buy getting rid of dead wood like Kuyt and Lucas etc and bring in a quality striker, an attacking midfieder a right sided midfield player and a right back, all which we desperately need. Whether we have the money or not is another problem.

Lets just pray that Gerrard is fit and healthy ASAP, other wise were in big trouble with some vital games coming up.

Really good post.

Agree with everything.

by **muzodziwa** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:11 pm

We have a wonderfully gifted player in Gerrard, and he is our player. And i think we are seing another side to our captain that i will attribute to Rafa. He played him on the right for a season and he did wonders even though he did not fancy that position. He played him off Torres from last year and he was great and still is great for us. Gerrard now is a player better technically and tactically than he was under Houillier.
His absence is clearly felt in circumstances where we need individual brilliance; we do not miss Stevie in big games against the top four as these are suited to our style of play. Losing Steve will mean a change of our system of play, and we may actually use 4-4-2 formation with no traditional wingers. This will impair us not in the fact that we do not have able wingers rather we do not have a goal outlet apart from Fernando. Without Stevie, Riera would continue as a left winger, Kuyt may still continue as on the right, bad as it looks i think we will manage.
The question is who would play with Torres, and in this i think we need a creative person (as saint always say). I do not think playing Babel and Torres is a worker until we have wingers who can actually put the wingbacks under pressure, otherwise its just a case of overburdening our central midfield players when we lose possession. Playing Ngog has a similar effect, but i think if we become a bit radical and play a young guy, yes untried, yes raw, but more creative like Pacheco or Nemeth in this position we might be up to something.
These two young guys wont obviously play for 90 minutes now, and i know there are a lot of reasons against using them, the chief being there are not ready. On the plus side there are willing to learn from Torres and will do the hard work of tracking back which will be a bonus. So without Gerrard we will be severely handicapped but it will give us opportunities to do things a bit different.

by **Sabre** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:24 pm

As for would we get in the top four without him, it kind of depends. What I mean by that is this. If for instance Gerrards injury against Everton freakishly put him out for the rest of this season, I think we'd struggle to get into the top four even now, from where we are. The reason being we only have one striker, and we have absolutely nobody who could fill Gerrards role to provide even 50% of what he does. If on the other hand we lost him first game of next season, with a bit of readjustment and a new signing in January, the other players are good enough to get us in. We could for instance have gone out and signed an Arshavin in the same circumstance (which I wish we had done anyway) and we'd make it then with a replacement.

We all agree so far, that Gerrard is a marvelous player.

I'm sure that a long Gerrard injury would damage us enough to forget about the title, I'm unsure about the top four thing, I just hope we don't have to test our theories and Gerrard plays the rest of the season (fingers crossed).

I also agree that Torres is a wonderful player, and for that matter, I agree those who say that once Keane is gone, if we lose Torres we're well and truly fúcked.

That's why a few weeks back, when I saw some of the stick to the manager, I didn't understand how people didn't consider that we've been missing Torres in many games of this season. I haven't checked the numbers, but it's been many weeks without him. IMHO losing a player like Gerrard and Torres makes you more prone to bliiiips, regardless the quality of your manager or the rotation policy.

Even now, we're paying those Torres injuries: As Capello said yesterday in MARCA when he was asked about the Real Madrid - Liverpool FC draw, "It will be a great battle between managers who know well both Spanish and English football, it will be important to see how's Torres in that week, as he's still recovering from injury and getting rythm of the game".

Hmm, but this is topic drifting. I'll stop here, and read the opinons of everybody else on the initial topic.

by **puroresu** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:38 pm

The impact is huge as we have so few matchwinners in the side.

by **Reg** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:44 pm

Massive influence on and off the field, he IS LFC.

Its not just his ability on the field, its psycological, his aura motivates our players and makes opponents design their gameplan to contain him.

No Gerrard no CL.

by **HacksawJimDuggin** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:46 pm

puroresu wrote:The impact is huge as we have so few matchwinners in the side.

Torres is (and you can see last night) lost without Gerrard. They 2 are on the same level/wavelength and no one else can get near them (well maybe Xabi on his day).

by **milou** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:09 pm

dawson99 wrote:without Gerrard we'd have someone else. Most teams have that talisman that set them above the others. Manure, Arsenal, Cheatski, all over europe as well.

The fact is we do have Gerrard, so the questions kinda redundant.

Spot on.. Short and sweet. and it sums up the Gerrard's situation entirely.

This is somewhat of a philosophical question to be honest.

If we never have a Gerrard to start with, then we wouldn't be playing the way we are playing.. simple as.. bcos you don't sit down and wonder what it might have been IF you have a "miracle worker" like Gerrard in your team. You don't even know what you don't know. For eg, I am sure MON doesn't just wonder and moan everyday why Villa academy didn't produce someone like Gerrard. He just does what he can, with what he has and now find themselves in an arguably similar league position as ours.

If Gerrard left for Chelsea a couple of years back (God forbids but let's face it, it was mighty close!) and we spent the transfer money (let's just say 60mil for argument sake) well on a FEW world-class players (20mil x 3), then we MAY even find ourselves stronger WITHOUT Gerrard. I remember quite a few here argued something similar when that chapter was unfolding a couple of years back.

Another very important (and debatable) aspect to consider is the context a player finds himself in.. It matters very very much IMHO.

In the current context of Liverpool, I think Gerrard is IRREPLACEABLE and PRICELESS.. But that is bcos Rafa and fans have come to rely on him SO much (sometimes I think TOO much). The whole team is simply built around him.

In the context of England, I would argue that Gerrard is nowhere even near world-class but just a decent player. Why? Bcos England managers just cannot get the best out of him and the team is NOT built around him. The same argument goes for Lampard and many other superstars in their respective clubs.

Same player, different teams = different performance.

So if I may answer the initial question (after all the long story

)... "What's Gerrard impact in the squad"? Well, it is obviously a HUGE one. If he just simply "vanishes" today with everything somehow remains the same in our club, then 4th place is what we can only realistically aim for and possibly won't even get.

by **Leonmc0708** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:25 pm

Take the best midfielder in the World out of any team and see the difference.

Look at Barca - Messi plays and they blow people away - he doesnt and even the other stars in their team look like a completely different side.

by **ConnO'var** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:28 pm

It's an interesting question Sabre/BigMick.

A lot depends on who we would have to replace him.

If, we are only considering the current squad, then I must say I'd agree with mick in that we'd struggle to qualify for the last Champions League position. The reason is fairly simple. Outside of Torres, I don't believe we have any real matchwinners. Being a striker however, he will need service and it's hard to see where there would come from without Stevie in the team. Of course it's not just Stevie that provides our attacking impetus. But the role (not position per se) that he has in the team is such that he's the one we depend on to provide the drive and heartbeat and passion and fear in the other team. This allows the other players to play their game better as he is to a large extent, an insurance policy. He can have a quiet game by his standards but it will always be in the opponents mind that he could provide the unexpected surge in whatever form. Would always keep them on edge and a team on edge is liable to make mistakes. He is massive for us and has proven it time and time again. Not looking at pure stats (

), his contribution in terms of just goals over the last 4 seasons is enough...... until Nando came along, there was no one in the squad that even came close to scoring the number of goals he's gotten.... and that's from midfield! Without him in the squad, we do not have sufficient depth in midfield to make the 4-2-3-1 (or 4-5-1 if you prefer) that Rafa likes to employ. With only Nando as a recognized striker, the 4-4-2 option is not open to us..... not to mention the lack of right midfielder. We would simply not have enough in the offensive locker to break down the weaker teams and we'll end up with a multitude of draws....... As it is, we already struggled with these teams over the last 2 seasons. I shudder to think what we'd be like without him.

If however, we are hypothesizing about the outcome of him having left for for chelsea, then things get a little interesting. Rafa is smart enuff of a manager to have built a team around Xabi as the pivot and focal point. He could have recreated his Valencia model.... play a more measured pace as I believe he's wont to do and use the funds to get in outright wingers of his choice. We'd probably still make the top 4 reasonably ok but will probably still not make it to the holy grail of the premiership. I'm honestly not taking a pop at Rafa with that statement.... I just don't see his methods as workable.... so please take that as a way to emphasize the point above. In the Valencia model, a Steven Gerrard type player is probably going to be problematic to utilize effectively.

I am glad he's still here for the sake of the club. Would not swap him for anyone currently playing. In my humblest opinion, he is THAT good.

by **puroresu** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:32 pm

Leonmc0708 wrote:Take the best midfielder in the World out of any team and see the difference.

Look at Barca - Messi plays and they blow people away - he doesnt and even the other stars in their team look like a completely different side.

Messi takes them to a new level but they have enough quality to win without Messi. Take Ronaldo out the Utd side and I still believe they have enough to keep winning.

by **Ciggy** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:37 pm

Out for 3 weeks torn hamstring FFS :down:

by **access** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:37 pm

Sky just reported that Steve will be out for 3 weeks.

by **ConnO'var** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:42 pm

access wrote:Sky just reported that Steve will be out for 3 weeks.

Bugger..... :down:

by **heimdall** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:42 pm

access wrote:Sky just reported that Steve will be out for 3 weeks.

There goes the title then, sorry but that is a FACT!

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