Robbie keane - [EDIT: On His Way Back to Spurs]

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Bad Bob » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:51 pm

bigmick wrote:Earlier in the season many people were comparing Keane to Berbatov, along the lines of "well look at who the Mancs spunked 30 million on, he's no better". The truth is, he wasn't either. Pundits and fans alike questioned the fee and whether the Bulgarian was good enough. No doubt some still do, but if you compare and contrast Ferguson's treatment of his big signing with Rafa's treatment of his, there is a glaring difference.

At every opportunity, he has been picked for starters (Berbatov that is). This is even the case when Tevez is waiting in the wings and has looked sharp when he's played. It would have been oh so easy to drop a misfiring Berbatov and stick with Tevez, but they haven't done that in the main. Ferguson has picked him and praised him up, both for his efforts and for his attitude. Never at any stage has there been any doubt left in anyones mind that the manager fully believed in the player, and that he fully endorsed the view that he would prove a good buy.

Contrast to Keane where he has barely completed a full match. He has rarely started the next match if he scored a goal in the previous one, and has never started a match in the immediate aftermath of scoring twice. Praise and obvious belief in the player have been rare in the extreme recently, both in interviews and in actions. The thing has deteriorated to such an extent that you now have the absolutely ridiculous spectacle of Rafa's pet journalist spinning that the manager tried to block the signing of Keane. I'll bet that's doing wonders for the players demeanour, and to me this is a terrible way to carry on.

In the same circumstances, anybody who had an ounce of appreciation of how the human mind and confidence works would be in the press straight away putting that rumour to bed. "Lets make it clear here and now, I signed Robbie Keane. Not Rick Parry, not anyone else. Me and me alone. I did it because I believe he is a really top player, and I still do. He hasn't produced his best yet, but he will. I'm looking forward to when Robbie starts playing as we all know he can, then we are going to find all the journalists who said he was a waste of money and laugh in their face. There's no worries about Robbie Keane, you mark my words. He's a fecking brilliant player".

I nicked the last bit from an interview a few years back. It was Ferguson when he was talking about Juan Sebastian Veron. As it turned out, Veron never really did reproduce the form which had made him a 28 million pound player. He was still fairly decent though, and at least he can't say he wasn't given every opportunity. It's a bit like Berbatov, he's been given every chance. I'm not a stat man by any means, but my impression is that he's beginning to find his feet as well, coming up with the odd important goal. He looks to me like he's starting to settle, starting to believe in himself and show confidence. Keane on the other hand looks like he really isn't enjoying life or football too much. Funny that, or at least it would be if RAFA hadn't signed him six months ago for 20 million quid.

And then he wants more control over transfers, after this Summers dealings  :laugh: Feck me you couldn't make it up.

I can't argue with any of that.  I'm a BIG Rafa supporter and always have been but the eccentricities are starting to pile up when it comes to how he handles players.  I've said before that I didn't like how he went about putting Alonso in the shop window this summer, I've always been a little uncomfortable with what happened with Crouchie and I now I can see very little sense in how Keane has been used.  Out of those three examples we can thank our lucky stars that the Alonso transfer fell through, but the other two situations are looking to be substantial mistakes.  I simply cannot fathom Rafa sometimes.
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Postby Thewaykokid » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:57 pm

Keane to fight for Liverpool future after Benitez snub


By Ian Herbert

Tuesday January 27 2009

Robbie Keane appears determined to salvage a Liverpool career which looks to be in severe jeopardy following his exclusion from the squad for Sunday's FA Cup derby squad.

Keane was said to have impressed manager Rafael Benitez with the intensity of his training at the club's Melwood training ground yesterday morning. However, the omens do not appear favourable for a player who, having not appeared in Liverpool's third-round visit to Preston either, is still not Cup-tied. But the 28-year-old's absence from Anfield for Liverpool's 1-1 draw with Everton is less significant than it might have seemed.

Any player not in Benitez's squad for the match was given Sunday off and that, rather than a personal protest, was why he did not materialise. Keane would also have known that he would have become an unwelcome centre of attention had he watched the match from the stand.

But Keane's omission from Benitez's squad was a stunning blow for a player seeking to build on fragile confidence with just five league goals this season. It is also a reflection of the exacting demands the Spaniard places on those whom he deploys in the striker's role.

Anfield has become a graveyard of strikers in Benitez's four-and-a-half years at Liverpool, with Michael Owen, El Hadji Diouf, Djibril Cisse, Fernando Morientes, Craig Bellamy and Peter Crouch all sold by the Spaniard in the end. Many of his strikers at Valencia experienced the same, with Fernando Torres a rare, if extraordinary, exception.

Though Harry Redknapp said yesterday that he had "a lot of time" for Keane, there appears to be no realistic prospect of the Dubliner taking a road back to Tottenham and Redknapp has not mentioned the player to his chairman, Daniel Levy.

"If you ask Portsmouth if they would like (Lassana) Diarra and (Sulley) Muntari back, I'm sure they would," Redknapp said. "They are not going to get them, probably no more than I'm going to get Robbie Keane. It's probably not an option."

Benitez's reasons for sticking with Keane include his need for striking reinforcements, with Torres troubled with hamstrings all season, as well as his personal reputation in the transfer market which is already on the line with none of his summer buys having flourished and Andrea Dossena having also laboured badly.

It was Benitez who persuaded the club's American owners after Crouch's departure last summer that a striking replacement was a top priority and, with the club aware that Spurs would not part company for less than £20m, that a substantial lay-out would be necessary. Keane's age was discussed at the time but Tom Hicks and George Gillett were persuaded by their manager's argument that he was injury free and that you pay a premium for strikers.

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Postby stmichael » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:02 pm

I think it's fair to say that despite this perceived "poor man management", Rafa was able to win the CL because of his skills in other areas, i.e the ability to change games with his substitutions.

It's nothing new though. I can't say that Rafa's management of Crouch was justified. He was working hard, performed and more often than not scored when he played yet didn't get a sniff of the starting lineup. If what Pennant says about being frozen out of practice are true, I can't say his management of him was right either. I can't say benching Keane after a good run was the right thing to do for his confidence, and as for  Babel, he hasn't gotten much of a run out this season and his confidence looks shot to pieces.

But heck, I want the team to win over the concerns of a few individuals over playing time, etc. Yes. I think Rafa's people management skills are lacking sometimes but overall he is a first class manager.
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Postby Ciggy » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:02 pm

Bad Bob wrote: I simply cannot fathom Rafa sometimes.

Its seems his problems lie with attacking players for some reason, Babel, keane, Crouch, Cisse, baros, Pongolle,Bellamy, Morientes,Pennant, Gonzales probably more that I cant think of right now.

This seems to be an problem area for Rafa only Torres has been a success, and Kuyts gone to the right when we have been crying out for a right winger for years. gerrard playing there was the nearest thing we had to having anyone decent on the right.

And the problem still excists yet Rafa spent the whole summer chasing GazBaz. When our midfield was one of the best in europe.
Last edited by Ciggy on Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby we all dream... » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:03 pm

GYBS wrote:and maybe those players need to earn the respect of the manager ? why should he just give out respect just cause they are poor little footballers being paid millions . respect should be earnt not given .

I agree with this, I feel that players shouldn't need an arm round the shoulder or praise to make them perform. BUT I do feel that it is poor man management from Rafa, he should be able to adapt his managerial style to suit his staff and get the best out fo them. He should know when to go hard ball and when not to. It is part of being a manager, people skills, no matter what industry you are in be it football or anything else. You have to know how to get the best from your employees.
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Postby GYBS » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:05 pm

well if keane is training like a demon possesed then that is great news all round for everyone and that to me shows the player is going to fight for his place and if rafa is impressed then hopefully we will see nothing but positives from keane now which once again is great for us . Maybe rafa thought keane was lacking a little fight or something so dropped him to see a reaction from him - if keane reacts in the right way (and if that report is right he has ) then great news.
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Postby Ciggy » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:10 pm

GYBS wrote:well if keane is training like a demon possesed then that is great news all round for everyone and that to me shows the player is going to fight for his place and if rafa is impressed then hopefully we will see nothing but positives from keane now which once again is great for us . Maybe rafa thought keane was lacking a little fight or something so dropped him to see a reaction from him - if keane reacts in the right way (and if that report is right he has ) then great news.

Its just been on the radio that he maybe going to Celtic on loan  :laugh:
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Postby Redman in wales » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:11 pm

stmichael wrote:But heck, I want the team to win over the concerns of a few individuals over playing time, etc.

so do i mate - and so so everyone on here.

and I'm sure this wouldn't be much of an issue if we were on a lovely winning streak....

but we've drawn 5 of our last 8 matches... so questions are asked.
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Postby GYBS » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:12 pm

Ciggy wrote:
GYBS wrote:well if keane is training like a demon possesed then that is great news all round for everyone and that to me shows the player is going to fight for his place and if rafa is impressed then hopefully we will see nothing but positives from keane now which once again is great for us . Maybe rafa thought keane was lacking a little fight or something so dropped him to see a reaction from him - if keane reacts in the right way (and if that report is right he has ) then great news.

Its just been on the radio that he maybe going to Celtic on loan  :laugh:

:laugh:

dont you just love the media
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Postby Thewaykokid » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:13 pm

Ciggy wrote:
GYBS wrote:well if keane is training like a demon possesed then that is great news all round for everyone and that to me shows the player is going to fight for his place and if rafa is impressed then hopefully we will see nothing but positives from keane now which once again is great for us . Maybe rafa thought keane was lacking a little fight or something so dropped him to see a reaction from him - if keane reacts in the right way (and if that report is right he has ) then great news.

Its just been on the radio that he maybe going to Celtic on loan  :laugh:

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Postby Ciggy » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:15 pm

From the Offal doesnt look like rafa will be breaking up this partnership any time soon.

Rafa Benitez believes Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres are ready to get Liverpool's title push back on track after renewing their lethal partnership against Everton. 
The pair combined to create an equaliser in Sunday's Cup derby following an audacious flick from Torres.
 
Benitez believes few players in world football could have pulled off such a move.
 
The Spaniard sees the goal as proof that last season's 53-goal partnership is ready to fire on all cylinders once more after a series of injuries.
 
He said: "We know the understanding between both was crucial last season and it will be again this season now they are back together again.
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Postby heimdall » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:18 pm

we all dream... wrote:
GYBS wrote:and maybe those players need to earn the respect of the manager ? why should he just give out respect just cause they are poor little footballers being paid millions . respect should be earnt not given .

I agree with this, I feel that players shouldn't need an arm round the shoulder or praise to make them perform. BUT I do feel that it is poor man management from Rafa, he should be able to adapt his managerial style to suit his staff and get the best out fo them. He should know when to go hard ball and when not to. It is part of being a manager, people skills, no matter what industry you are in be it football or anything else. You have to know how to get the best from your employees.

Sorry but I disagree, if your manager at work is constantly ignoring you and favouring other people in your team or department although you know you are better you are very quickly going to get :censored: off and demoralised especially if you have just started a new job. I am in management myself and I know that you have to be very supportive with new members of a team at least until they have settled in and feel comfortable.

Rafa is a fairly good tactician but a terrible man manger and motivator in my opinion.  Possibly one of the major reasons why we were getting better results earlier in the season was Sammy Lee but now that Rafa is having his rant, :censored: about with his contract and being biased against Keane it is starting to affect the whole team.  It is terrible management and in most companies he would be hauled in front of the top boss and told to get his act together or feck off!
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Postby Ciggy » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:18 pm

Thewaykokid wrote:are you serial?

Am I what?
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

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Postby Thewaykokid » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:20 pm

Ciggy wrote:
Thewaykokid wrote:are you serial?

Am I what?

never mind. Watch South Park
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Postby Bad Bob » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:23 pm

heimdall wrote:Possibly one of the major reasons why we were getting better results earlier in the season was Sammy Lee

Having just voiced my concerns about Rafa's handling of Keane, I wanted to highlight this because this is the kind of thing that really fecks me off about the chronic Rafa bashers.  Whenever something is going right, it's always someone else that gets the credit.  But as soon as we hit a sticky patch, every single detail is Rafa's fault.  If I had a nickel for the number of times I've read that Pako or Sammy Lee or lady luck have been responsible for all that's positive during Rafa's tenure...  :no
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