Liverpool FC Forum

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:04 pm

devaney wrote:
neil wrote::down:
but chelsea were wonderfully untouchable superflyguys for 50 years on the run till we beat them, now they're pi55 poor, man u won 2 trophies last year then added £30 million worth of goal poachin "magic" till we beat beat em, now they're the worst man u outfit since remi moses signed. Happy clapper alert!! We're a fantastic footy team still top of the league (after xmas) and havent we played all the top 10 away apart from manu? yes us, and now............enter Fernando Torres, some of you dont deserve it.

Very well said and how right you are that many of these clowns do not deserve our title chasing attempt! How they call themselves supporters is beyond me. They probably start the booing on the Kop when we go top of the league !!

I sat if front of some foul mouthed brainless muppet at the Hull game who didn't nothing but have a go at Rierra for the entire game calling him for everything - personally I think he has been one of Rafa's best buys - NO DOUBT BIGMICK WOULD PUT THAT DOWN TO LUCK AS WELL.

And now Bigmick the anti has asked us to calm down whilst him and some of his mates regard Rafa as lucky or a clown. Ffs I give up
!!!!!!!!!!!!

Out of order comment, that...see my PM. :no

by **neil** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:09 pm

I dont see anything out of order, hidden agenda?

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:16 pm

neil wrote:I dont see anything out of order, hidden agenda?

Bigmick's a clown? That's bang out of order and I'm not having it. Mick's been responsible for some of the best footy chat this place has seen for years and whether you agree with him or not (I frequently disagree, FWIW) there can be no denying that he goes about things the right way. If half the people on here made an effort to chat footy and avoid flame wars the way Mick does, this place would be 1000% better. Hidden agenda? Nothing hidden about it. Mick's the kind of poster this place needs and the more people feel they can stick the boot into him just because he has the audacity to voice an opinion about football the closer he'll come to chucking in the towel. Well, not on my watch. Disagree with him all you like but leave the abuse out of it. :no

by **Owzat** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:18 pm

devaney wrote:In the case of Keane, we can conclude from the way that Rafa has handled him that he doesn't see him as a lone front man. You might also come to the conclusion that he doesn't see him as one of two either based on the last couple of weeks, but whatever, once again it's hard to argue he has either done fantastically well or was value at 20.5 million pounds. Some of us firmly believe that even though the Irishman was way overpriced, had we handled him better we would have got more return in terms of performance but that's kind of by the by really. Now Torres is back, and given the fact that Gerrard is quite simply undroppable (and in all probability playing in Keane's position while he's at it) it's hard to see Robbie getting too many games. This is particularly the case if we are going to leave him out when he scored two in three, so the question begs to be asked, why did we sign him then?

I don't buy into this excusism of blaming the role Keane is asked to play or that he's left out and it's his dented confidence that's the problem.

He's a professional footballer, he has to play where he's asked and it's the same at any club. The manager can bench him at his whim or ignore him altogether a la Pennant. He's getting plenty of time on the pitch, maybe he could get more or less, maybe he would prefer playing in a 4-4-2, but that's irrelevant. He's there to be used as the manager sees fit.

The fact is he missed the Newcastle game and we won it 5-1, I don't think Rafa needs to justify his selections for that game but clearly some do - not because of the scoreline, but because poor ickle Robbie's confidence might take a dent and he might have scored in the last game if he'd played against Newcastle. He missed three decent chances against Preston, was that because he missed ONE game or because he missed them?

Anyone can speculate as to the effects of his useage - sub or starter, 4-4-2 or lone striker. But the fact is he is a Premiership striker held in reasonable to high regard and if presented with the chances he is then he should be scoring more.

I would like to know why Rafa signed him, what role he had in mind etc He must have thought he was going to play a significant role and score plenty of goals or he would have used the £20.3m towards buying other players.

I'm not sure Dossena is the worst signing, Houllier signed plenty of contenders there including the likes of Diao, Traore, Biscan, Meijer etc and others we barely got a single decent game out of. We've had such a hard time signing a decent LB in recent years that he'd hardly be miles behind previous signins.

by **neil** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:29 pm

"many of these clowns" doesnt sound like a personal insult to Bigmick, its appears generic to me.

by **devaney** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:34 pm

neil wrote:I dont see anything out of order, hidden agenda?

Nothing to heavy - Bob took exception to me referring to some of the anti's as clowns and I apologise it was unnecessary and childish. However my comments were not directed at one individual as Bob suggests. Part of my post was in response to other posts from Bigmick and I can therefore see where the confusion arises - sorry again.

I will now try and show more respect to some of the regular long term posters and I trust they will do the same. Regardless of their views or what they write I suppose if nothing else they are entitled to their opinion.

As Bob say's - keep the forum to football and not people abuse. I will try and rise above it but on occasions it is difficult not to react to some of the posts on this forum.

LET'S FACE IT WE ALL WANT ONE THING - NUMBER 19 THIS YEAR !!!!!

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:40 pm

devaney wrote:
neil wrote::down:
but chelsea were wonderfully untouchable superflyguys for 50 years on the run till we beat them, now they're pi55 poor, man u won 2 trophies last year then added £30 million worth of goal poachin "magic" till we beat beat em, now they're the worst man u outfit since remi moses signed. Happy clapper alert!! We're a fantastic footy team still top of the league (after xmas) and havent we played all the top 10 away apart from manu? yes us, and now............enter Fernando Torres, some of you dont deserve it.

I agree with this 100% and echo my sentiments exactly to what has been alluded to by some posters. I was going to write a similar post, but couldn't be ar$ed. I really didn't want to offend anyone or hurt anyone's feelings.

Anyway, Robbie Keane? He's shite, isn't he! :;):

by **Judge** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:51 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
neil wrote:I dont see anything out of order, hidden agenda?

Bigmick's a clown?

i do think mick wears a big red nose when he's selling those sex aids in his shop tho bob

by **Bad Bob** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:59 pm

devaney wrote:
neil wrote:I dont see anything out of order, hidden agenda?

Nothing to heavy - Bob took exception to me referring to some of the anti's as clowns and I apologise it was unnecessary and childish. However my comments were not directed at one individual as Bob suggests. Part of my post was in response to other posts from Bigmick and I can therefore see where the confusion arises - sorry again.

I will now try and show more respect to some of the regular long term posters and I trust they will do the same. Regardless of their views or what they write I suppose if nothing else they are entitled to their opinion.

As Bob say's - keep the forum to football and not people abuse. I will try and rise above it but on occasions it is difficult not to react to some of the posts on this forum.

LET'S FACE IT WE ALL WANT ONE THING - NUMBER 19 THIS YEAR !!!!!

Top stuff, mate. :nod

Neil, Mick was implicated in the comment but, to be honest, I'm sick of reading it in general. There's far too much name calling, attempted wind-ups and "do you go the game?" comments on here. This is a forum for football discussion and all of that nonsense gets in the way of good discussion. I don't expect people to be saints (not even S@int) but I wish people would address the issues being discussed more and go looking for fights less. It really is the way forward.

by **Emerald Red** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:00 pm

GYBS wrote:Asking another question then - How long do we give him to get settled and find his feet and scoring ?

At least a season. At least. I can't believe people are speaking of flogging him. It's like a group of brats spitting the dummy because they didn't get the presents they wanted for Christmas, or thought they were getting something else.

by **fivecups** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:01 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
devaney wrote:
neil wrote::down:
but chelsea were wonderfully untouchable superflyguys for 50 years on the run till we beat them, now they're pi55 poor, man u won 2 trophies last year then added £30 million worth of goal poachin "magic" till we beat beat em, now they're the worst man u outfit since remi moses signed. Happy clapper alert!! We're a fantastic footy team still top of the league (after xmas) and havent we played all the top 10 away apart from manu? yes us, and now............enter Fernando Torres, some of you dont deserve it.

Very well said and how right you are that many of these clowns do not deserve our title chasing attempt! How they call themselves supporters is beyond me. They probably start the booing on the Kop when we go top of the league !!

I sat if front of some foul mouthed brainless muppet at the Hull game who didn't nothing but have a go at Rierra for the entire game calling him for everything - personally I think he has been one of Rafa's best buys - NO DOUBT BIGMICK WOULD PUT THAT DOWN TO LUCK AS WELL.

And now Bigmick the anti has asked us to calm down whilst him and some of his mates regard Rafa as lucky or a clown. Ffs I give up
!!!!!!!!!!!!

Out of order comment, that...see my PM.

I think Devaney makes a lot of good points and his opinions regarding Kuyt, Rafa, "happy-clappiness" are closer to my own than Big Mick's. The problem is that after he makes a good discussive post he follows it with a bit of personal abuse. It just ruins any good football discussion.

by **Judge** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:02 pm

Mr Robbie Keane - good footballer. Needs more of a run in the team. He is scoring now, and extremely helpful in the squad. However his miss against preston was poor, but all footballers have done that one. Nonetheless, i would not like him to be sold. I feel he'll be a real star in our squad, as we march on to our 19th title.

he will be instrumental in that, imo

by **devaney** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:25 pm

fivecups wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
devaney wrote:
neil wrote::down:
but chelsea were wonderfully untouchable superflyguys for 50 years on the run till we beat them, now they're pi55 poor, man u won 2 trophies last year then added £30 million worth of goal poachin "magic" till we beat beat em, now they're the worst man u outfit since remi moses signed. Happy clapper alert!! We're a fantastic footy team still top of the league (after xmas) and havent we played all the top 10 away apart from manu? yes us, and now............enter Fernando Torres, some of you dont deserve it.

Very well said and how right you are that many of these clowns do not deserve our title chasing attempt! How they call themselves supporters is beyond me. They probably start the booing on the Kop when we go top of the league !!

I sat if front of some foul mouthed brainless muppet at the Hull game who didn't nothing but have a go at Rierra for the entire game calling him for everything - personally I think he has been one of Rafa's best buys - NO DOUBT BIGMICK WOULD PUT THAT DOWN TO LUCK AS WELL.

And now Bigmick the anti has asked us to calm down whilst him and some of his mates regard Rafa as lucky or a clown. Ffs I give up
!!!!!!!!!!!!

Out of order comment, that...see my PM.

I think Devaney makes a lot of good points and his opinions regarding Kuyt, Rafa, "happy-clappiness" are closer to my own than Big Mick's. The problem is that after he makes a good discussive post he follows it with a bit of personal abuse. It just ruins any good football discussion.

Frustration mate, frustration !! Take your point and I for one will try and pack in the childish abuse!

COME IN NUMBER 19 - YOUR TIMES UP !!!!!!!!!!!

by **devaney** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:28 pm

Judge wrote:Mr Robbie Keane - good footballer. Needs more of a run in the team. He is scoring now, and extremely helpful in the squad. However his miss against preston was poor, but all footballers have done that one. Nonetheless, i would not like him to be sold. I feel he'll be a real star in our squad, as we march on to our 19th title.

he will be instrumental in that, imo

Already has been even with his lack of goals. He shows desire and passion and it's good to see him getting annoyed and frustrated when he is left out or substituted - IT SHOWS HE WANT'S IT VERY BADLY AND NOT JUST THE MONEY !!

by **milou** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:30 pm

THE JURY'S OUT ON BERBATOV
Enigmatic genius or waste of money?

By Kevin Palmer
(Archive)

January 5, 2009

Dimitar Berbatov's arrival at Manchester United may have created more problems than it solved.

Improving on a Premier League and Champions League winning season was always going to be a tough ask for manager Sir Alex Ferguson and his solution was to finally snare the long-term target he believed would take his side onto the next level. By splashing out £30.75m to secure the services of the Bulgarian, he put plenty of eggs in the 'Berba' basket and had every right to expect plenty in return.

On occasion, Ferguson must have believed his investment was worth while as Berbatov has shown the odd flash of genius in his first few months as United's No.9, yet the goals and guile he was hired to inject have only come in fleeting bursts. Even though his magic moments have been hugely memorable, true champions deliver more often than the moody Bulgarian has managed so far.

When you throw into the mix the reality that Berbatov's purchase means there may not be enough money to fund Carlos Tevez's permanent stay at Old Trafford, you have to wonder whether the three Premier League goals United's enigmatic forward has contributed so far justifies his presence at the club.

Would United fans prefer to see Tevez in their side for years to come or Berbatov? You suspect most would throw their weight behind the hugely popular Argentine terrier, who is currently pondering his future as he appears to have been nudged down to fourth choice hit-man in Ferguson's star-studded striking line-up.

Only this week, Ferguson insisted Wayne Rooney will be playing a more central role in his side from now on and with the brilliant Cristiano Ronaldo unhappy to be employed solely as a winger, finding a place for Berbatov is a dilemma United's legendary manager has yet to solve.

The United chief eased selection dilemma for Sunday's FA Cup third round tie at St Mary's Stadium by leaving his fabled three forwards from last season's glories on the sidelines and he left it to Berbatov to take centre stage against a team whose defensive record has been woeful this season.

Handed plenty of responsibility as he started alongside novice youngster Danny Welbeck in a strong United line-up, he was given the chance to show he was worthy of the shirt on his back and yet he failed to convince once again.

It may sound a little curious to compare him to tennis legend Roger Federer, yet as he glided around the lush St Mary's Stadium turn, flicking his hair aside a little like the Swiss ace tends to do, he looked like a man keen to put on a personal show rather than help his team succeed. Berbatov refuses to do the simple when the eye-catching is an option.

The occasional fancy flick and brilliant control of the ball was complimented by a determination to dip back to his own half way line as he tried to influence the play, yet his efforts were overshadowed by Welbeck as he opened the scoring after some shoddy Saints defending from a corner after 20 minutes.

If you were judging a player from his body language, Berbatov would not score highly as his each and every false move is greeted by childish arm waving and hunched shoulders. However, United cannot grumble with this flaw in his make-up as he has always specialised in the moody look.

The trouble for Berbatov may be that while rare brilliance was celebrated at previous club Tottenham, where mediocrity is expected and willingly accepted, more frequent contributions are demanded at a massive club like United.

When you are challenging for four major trophies in the second half of the season, there is no time to wait for a player to make a difference and as Welbeck so nearly added a second for United in the final moments of the first half, it was clear that the senior striker was playing second fiddle to his novice sidekick.

This may not have been the right game to judge Berbatov's impact, but there will come a time when he needs to justify his hype. Top players never looked as if they are uninterested in any game they play, but the Bulgarian seemed decidedly under-motivated in his first game of 2009.

So often compared to United icon Eric Cantona, Berbatov is yet to prove he has the ability to turn games when the pressure is on and even though the range of his vision became more impressive once Rooney was introduced from the bench, this was not a vintage display.

Few doubt he has the quality to play for United and he may well establish himself as an Old Trafford great in a different era, yet many believe United are at their best when the dream team of Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney play together.

It may be that Berbatov didn't feel the need to shed any sweat against a poor Southampton side.

Maybe a meeting with former club Tottenham will stir Berbatov's fires a little more in round four. On this day, you just felt the need to give this obviously classy footballer a good shake.

***********

I put this article here bcos while Keane has been criticized for his performance in Liverpool so far, Berbatov has been even worse! Not to mention costing 10 millions more!

It is always easy to hammer the manager for a wrong buy... but we all knew how good they were playing for spurs (ignore the highly inflated price-tag for a moment) BEFORE they came to Liverpool and Manure.

I think going to a new club is ALWAYS a gamble, for the manager and player alike... with new environment, new culture, new management, new formation, etc.

Lucas was BRAZILIAN footballer of the year before he came. Someone pointed out dossena was actually highly rated prior to joining Liverpool. What about at Henry (barca), Shevchenco (chelsea), Morientes (liverpool), Veron (manure)? The list go on and on.

Can good players turned into flops just by changing clubs? Apparently so!

Liverpool FC Forum

Robbie keane - [EDIT: On His Way Back to Spurs]

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