Liverpool FC Forum

by **SupitsJonF** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:08 pm

If you don't like people why post?

by **tubby** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:24 pm

I dont know why people are always saying play him up front ect....Didnt Bad Bob bring up some stats to show he scored less from that position than when he was playing on the left?

by **NANNY RED** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:38 pm

SupitsJonF wrote:If you don't like people why post?

He loves me :laugh:

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:28 pm

bavlondon wrote:I dont know why people are always saying play him up front ect....Didnt Bad Bob bring up some stats to show he scored less from that position than when he was playing on the left?

he has scored more from wide areas then up front but he has played less games up front

Not sure how many games he played wide but i know his record starting up front is good.

played 2 scored 3.

As to how many odd start he had wide.

by **heimdall** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:32 pm

I guess we will never solve this unless he is given a chance up front. To me it is so obvious he would shine too most of you lot, with the exception of LegBarnes and Petar, the opposite is the case but we might never know for sure and that is a real shame.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:34 pm

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta_DdRnYHIY&feature=related

class !

by **Sabre** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:36 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
SupitsJonF wrote:If you don't like people why post?

He loves me

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:39 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
SupitsJonF wrote:If you don't like people why post?

He loves me

who don't on here. :wwww

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:40 pm

LegBarnes wrote:Not sure how many games he played wide but i know his record starting up front is good.

played 2 scored 3.

Repeating your completely fabricated stat over and over again doesn't make it any more true, mate.

We've already been through all this...Babel's real stats as a striker: played four, scored zero. And that's against poor opposition. If you still insist he's a striker I'll won't argue with you (just agree to disagree) but let's not kid ourselves that he's been effective in that role in the past shall we?

Remember all this...

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Rafa for me is shooting him self in the foot with babel a player that has had so many top people in football back him and what does he do stick him out on left where his skills are wasted.

Babel is a fantastic finisher do we ever get to see him doing that no ! why because he hardly ever gets a chance to get into 1v1s.

I keep telling you the stats 2 starts as striker in those 2 starts he baged 3 goals so why don't rafa play him striker cos rafa is a stubbon ar.se hole thats why.

Which stats are those?

So far this season
(1)Started up top against Crewe (Carling Cup) and failed to score

Last season
(1)Started as striker against Cardiff (Carling Cup) and failed to score
(2) Started as striker against Blackburn (Prem) and failed to score
(3)Started as striker against Havant and Waterlooville (FA Cup) and failed to score

For the record, he's scored 8 of his 11 goals for us as sub. Two more have come as starting LM in a 4-4-2 and the last one as a starter on the left in a 4-2-3-1. So by my maths, he's actually never scored for us when started as an out-and-out striker.

Link to Soccernet Game Log for Babel 2007-2008

I was talking about last season besiktas got 2 was brought on up front and arsensal last season played up front and scored.

Oh, aye, some excellent evidence of his ability to lead the line there. He comes on as a LM against Besiktas when we're already up 4-0 and we've made it 5-0 before he gets moved up top. Talk about running through beaten horses. As for the Arsenal match, Babel was deployed on the left of midfield, as this excerpt from the Soccernet match report reminds us:

"Babel then came on for Crouch, who left the field to a standing ovation. Liverpool switched back to their preferred system, with Gerrard working behind Torres while two holding players protected the midfield." LINK

So, from what I can see, neither of your examples provide great support to the theory that he's done the business as a striker. Indeed, failing to score when deployed as a striker against the likes of Cardiff (90 mins.), Blackburn (63 mins.), Havant and Waterlooville (90 mins.) and Crewe (87 mins) seems to lend more weight to the idea that maybe he's not up to it.

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:42 pm

heimdall wrote:I guess we will never solve this unless he is given a chance up front. To me it is so obvious he would shine too most of you lot, with the exception of LegBarnes and Petar, the opposite is the case but we might never know for sure and that is a real shame.

I refer you to my previous post, which shows that he has been tested up top against opposition he should have torn up for a.rse paper and yet he didn't do the business.

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:42 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Not sure how many games he played wide but i know his record starting up front is good.

played 2 scored 3.

Repeating your completely fabricated stat over and over again doesn't make it any more true, mate.

We've already been through all this...Babel's real stats as a striker: played four, scored zero. And that's against poor opposition. If you still insist he's a striker I'll won't argue with you (just agree to disagree) but let's not kid ourselves that he's been effective in that role in the past shall we?

Remember all this...
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:Rafa for me is shooting him self in the foot with babel a player that has had so many top people in football back him and what does he do stick him out on left where his skills are wasted.

Babel is a fantastic finisher do we ever get to see him doing that no ! why because he hardly ever gets a chance to get into 1v1s.

I keep telling you the stats 2 starts as striker in those 2 starts he baged 3 goals so why don't rafa play him striker cos rafa is a stubbon ar.se hole thats why.

Which stats are those?

So far this season
(1)Started up top against Crewe (Carling Cup) and failed to score

Last season
(1)Started as striker against Cardiff (Carling Cup) and failed to score
(2) Started as striker against Blackburn (Prem) and failed to score
(3)Started as striker against Havant and Waterlooville (FA Cup) and failed to score

For the record, he's scored 8 of his 11 goals for us as sub. Two more have come as starting LM in a 4-4-2 and the last one as a starter on the left in a 4-2-3-1. So by my maths, he's actually never scored for us when started as an out-and-out striker.

Link to Soccernet Game Log for Babel 2007-2008

I was talking about last season besiktas got 2 was brought on up front and arsensal last season played up front and scored.

Oh, aye, some excellent evidence of his ability to lead the line there. He comes on as a LM against Besiktas when we're already up 4-0 and we've made it 5-0 before he gets moved up top. Talk about running through beaten horses. As for the Arsenal match, Babel was deployed on the left of midfield, as this excerpt from the Soccernet match report reminds us:

"Babel then came on for Crouch, who left the field to a standing ovation. Liverpool switched back to their preferred system, with Gerrard working behind Torres while two holding players protected the midfield." LINK

So, from what I can see, neither of your examples provide great support to the theory that he's done the business as a striker. Indeed, failing to score when deployed as a striker against the likes of Cardiff (90 mins.), Blackburn (63 mins.), Havant and Waterlooville (90 mins.) and Crewe (87 mins) seems to lend more weight to the idea that maybe he's not up to it.

?? arsenal game and Besiktas he was up front for both and scored 3 and got us pen in arsenal game.

ok we got our lines drawn wrong he didn't start those games but was playing striker so even less time he had and scored your point ?

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:45 pm

LegBarnes wrote:?? arsenal game and Besiktas he was up front for both and scored 3 and got us pen in arsenal game.

Oh, aye, some excellent evidence of his ability to lead the line there. He comes on as a LM against Besiktas when we're already up 4-0 and we've made it 5-0 before he gets moved up top. Talk about running through beaten horses. As for the Arsenal match, Babel was deployed on the left of midfield, as this excerpt from the Soccernet match report reminds us:

"Babel then came on for Crouch, who left the field to a standing ovation. Liverpool switched back to their preferred system, with Gerrard working behind Torres while two holding players protected the midfield." LINK

We've been all through this too, mate--read what I wrote. It's fecking Groundhog Day in here sometimes. :no

by **LegBarnes** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:47 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:?? arsenal game and Besiktas he was up front for both and scored 3 and got us pen in arsenal game.

Oh, aye, some excellent evidence of his ability to lead the line there. He comes on as a LM against Besiktas when we're already up 4-0 and we've made it 5-0 before he gets moved up top. Talk about running through beaten horses. As for the Arsenal match, Babel was deployed on the left of midfield, as this excerpt from the Soccernet match report reminds us:

"Babel then came on for Crouch, who left the field to a standing ovation. Liverpool switched back to their preferred system, with Gerrard working behind Torres while two holding players protected the midfield." LINK

We've been all through this too, mate--read what I wrote. It's fecking Groundhog Day in here sometimes.

Well as i remember those and games and watch the arsenal one other day he didn't spend much time out on left wing..

One thing getting your info from sites another thing watching it.

But lets say even if your are right 4 games is a basis to judge if a player is ok ? why did Keane get 14 so far ?

by **Igor Zidane** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:50 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:?? arsenal game and Besiktas he was up front for both and scored 3 and got us pen in arsenal game.

Oh, aye, some excellent evidence of his ability to lead the line there. He comes on as a LM against Besiktas when we're already up 4-0 and we've made it 5-0 before he gets moved up top. Talk about running through beaten horses. As for the Arsenal match, Babel was deployed on the left of midfield, as this excerpt from the Soccernet match report reminds us:

"Babel then came on for Crouch, who left the field to a standing ovation. Liverpool switched back to their preferred system, with Gerrard working behind Torres while two holding players protected the midfield." LINK

We've been all through this too, mate--read what I wrote. It's fecking Groundhog Day in here sometimes.

Well as i remember those and games and watch the arsenal one other day he didn't spend much time out on left wing..

One thing getting your info from sites another thing watching it.

He played on the wing in the arsenal game , what part of the pitch did he recieve the ball on and make the run into the penalty area for the penalty?

by **Bad Bob** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:57 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:?? arsenal game and Besiktas he was up front for both and scored 3 and got us pen in arsenal game.

Oh, aye, some excellent evidence of his ability to lead the line there. He comes on as a LM against Besiktas when we're already up 4-0 and we've made it 5-0 before he gets moved up top. Talk about running through beaten horses. As for the Arsenal match, Babel was deployed on the left of midfield, as this excerpt from the Soccernet match report reminds us:

"Babel then came on for Crouch, who left the field to a standing ovation. Liverpool switched back to their preferred system, with Gerrard working behind Torres while two holding players protected the midfield." LINK

We've been all through this too, mate--read what I wrote. It's fecking Groundhog Day in here sometimes.

Well as i remember those and games and watch the arsenal one other day he didn't spend much time out on left wing..

One thing getting your info from sites another thing watching it.

But lets say even if your are right 4 games is a basis to judge if a player is ok ? why did Keane get 14 so far ?

That's because he never spends much time out on the wings because, as you like to bring up at every...single...opportunity, he's not a winger. He's forever cutting infield and lingering around the box. And yet, you and the other Babel babes would have us believe that he's been so completely burdened with his duties as a wide player that we can't see the real Babel and if only we'd just play him up top...

Well, given that he spends most of his time in and around the box and still fails to look the business you'll forgive me if I have very little faith that starting him up top will produce this miraculous metamorphosis that you lot keep insisting will happen.

Winger or striker, he'll still make poor decisions, bottle out of 50/50 situations and not look a.rsed 3/4 of the time. So forget the position he plays in and focus on the real facts behind the numbers: 12 goals over a season and half, four from starts but 8 from off the bench. That means he's a supersub--a pace merchant to throw on late in games against tired but still attacking opposition. Whenever we use him in those situations, he offers the side a fair bit. Unfortunately, when we start him, he offers much less and I guarantee that'll be the case whether he plays out wide or up top.

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