Liverpool FC Forum

by **JC_81** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:30 am

So far the overall mood regarding our summer transfer activity is one of negativity. We have seen Riise, Kewell, Itandje and Guthrie depart without any tears shed and Crouch go as expected, but it's the lack of incoming talent that has some folk concerned. I for one know very little about the incoming senior players such as Cavalieri, Deggen and Dossena. I did regard both fullback positions and back-up keeper as areas that needed strengthening, but perhaps they were not our most glaring weaknesses and perhaps the players brought in won't be much of an improvement as we know little about them. Should our wide midfield positions and perhap[s another striker have been more of a priority? Maybe, but that's for another debate.

What of our rivals though? They may have more cash to throw about but it's them and not us this summer who are struggling to hold on to their assets. Chelsea have a fight on to keep hold of Lampard, and if they do he may very well be disgruntled. Drogba has been keeping quiet but reading between the lines it appears that his age is all that is keeping him at Chelsea - the big foreign clubs seem to fancy Adebayor as a younger alternative to the Ivorian this summer otherwise I believe he'd have been gone already. There are also rumours that Carvalho wants out. These are players that Chelsea cannot afford to lose imo. Then there's the manager himself, no club management experience in Europe and no club management at all in several years, I for one would have doubts if it were our club he were taking charge of.

Arsenal? Well documented problems. Hleb is all but gone and Adebayor may not be far behind. Their young team will be a year older though and Arshavin may well be their coup of the summer added to Nasri who is very promising. Of course they have also lost Flamini and Gilberto seems likely to go also. Lehmann has gone. They are losing the more experienced players of their young side, may no longer have a recognised tackling midfielder and still have not addressed the goalkeeping position. Unless they spend a bit of cash I don't think they'll have as good a season as last.

United? All the focus is on Ronaldo, but even if he goes, Ferguson will bring in one or two real quality players imo, perhaps Berbatov, Huntelaar or both. Plus they have that African player coming to them that has been out on loan somewhere, meant to have real potential. Then Anderson and Nani should be even better with a year's Premiership experience behind them. Regardless of what happens with Ronaldo I still see them as the team to beat this season.

I will also mention Spurs, because they've made some really good signings imo. The Brazillian keeper they got from PSV is good, I've seen him a few times, much more reliable than Robinson. Then there's a few real exciting players coming in such as Modric and Dos Santos. It all depends who they can keep - ie Berbatov/Keane, but they may threaten the top 4. I rate Ramos highly as a coach.

I will be surprised if we can win the league with our current squad but who knows what else may happen in the transfer market. At the same time I'd rather be in our position with our squad right now than Chelsea or Arsenal, although I suspect many won't agree.

by **RedBlood** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:41 am

i agree

by **stmichael** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:58 am

Queiroz leaving United is huge imo. If you look back, Ferguson and United have had some huge dips in form when Kidd, McClaren and indeed Queiroz left for spells. It's perfectly possible that next season could be another one of transition for United. Ronadldo is out until October aswell. Chelsea will compete, but to what extent? Scolari is by no means a forgone conclusion. I'd probably make them slight favourites at this point, but I also strongly doubt that Scolari can do better than Mourinho. Just like Grant, he will also be serioulsy hampered by the impossiblility of Roman's demands. He will not accept failure in the CL, winning that is almost an obsession, but at the same time there is no way that poor league performance will be excused by good CL performance. There will also be quite a large turnover of players there.

Arsenal, I have a sneaky suspicion, may just be on the start of a sharp downward turn. Flamini was a big loss, Nasri doesn't give them anything new, and doesn't address any of their actual problems. Wenger has a fantastic squad with so many talented youngsters, but has so far refused to combine this with a rotation policy. His squad wasn't too weak last season...he just didn't trust it enough. There is no way the other managers would have let themselves be in a position of having to play must win league games against the likes of us with full backs starting who have barely played a prem game, yet unable to rest their most vital and tired player in Fabregas...speaking of whom, he is great, but is still to young to carry the team for an entire season. He needs rests more than anyone, but will Wenger rest him? I have my doubts...plus it looks possible that Adebayor may leave, Wenger still doesn't have a clue about how to build a solid defence, and he still hasn't got a keeper even remotely close to the level of ability that Cech, VDS and Reina have. Again these problems are the same old same old...why would they suddenly be solved next season?

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:06 pm

I never really pay much attention to our rivals in all honesty, I'm kept well informed on here about their finacial clout. But an educated guess will see Man United as favourites to retain the league with Chelsea hot on their heels and possibly the Gooners getting third.

I thinl alot of us last season said that we'd finnish above Arsenal for reasons I cannot remember, come may we werent even close. At the moment we're nailed on fourth spot possibly scrapping that with Everton or Spurs. I think whatever trouble our rivals are "apparently" in, they're still probably finnish above us.

Every pre-season I have high hopes for us to sustain a title challenge, and for some reason this year I dont. Rafa has money, he doesnt have money ? Who knows, but I cannot believe for one minute hes going to ignore the wide areas of the team. Which need to be desperately addressed, and not with your Pennants or Benayouns, but with top shelf players. Surely Rafa is going to use some of that cash if not all of it from Crouchs sale and put in a bid for a left winger of substantial quality. Then move Babel upfront behind Torres in the pecking order.

Havent really stayed on topic, about our rivals. But whatever happens to them realistically they'll finnish above us because they have "more money" than us, why turn up ? I'm jumping on that band wagon now. :no

by **puroresu** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:06 pm

Nasri replaces Hleb. Utd still look the strongest and I think the other 3 sides need to bring in some real quality.

by **Number 9** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:12 pm

I agree with John about Arsenal.I would be very concerned if i was an Arsenal fan with the quality of players that are showing a desire to leave.To me it is players that want to win things and they obviously dont believe they can fill their ambitions at Arsenal.It seems that how they lost it at the end of last season has had a negative effect on them and they realise they can do bigger things elswhere and also earn more money.

As for Chelsea,again good players wanting to leave is always a bad sign.I have always felt that sooner or later the hiring and firing of managers will have a negative effect on the squad of players.Lots of people have said that Scolari will come in and take them places.Well the reality is he has one season to do it and he probably needs to win the C/L or EPL to keep his job.
Yes he has an open chequebook and can sign any player willing to join his ranks,thats all well and good but he has to get things right from day one in the league.This will not be easy to do.He is under emmense pressure and i dont think he realises yet exactly how much pressure.Lets see if his interveiws are so easygoing and joyful a few months into the season....i'd very much doubt it!

As for UTD,its hard to say what will happen with Ronaldo,i think personally he will stay another season at least,time will tell on that one!
Either way I reckon Fergie will probably buy 2 very good players to slot into the first team as usual...quality not quantity!

It should be an interesting season and it will be fascinating to see how all four line up come the 16th of August.
On LFC we have been linked to so many players there is'nt a man alive who could predict who will have come and gone by the time the transfer window closes!
With the right signings I feel we can be well armed to have a great campaign.With the right management and a bit of common sense we should be up there at the end of the season and in with a shout.
I think its crucial we play a settled back four in the League,im not saying the same EVERY game from august season end,but players should only be rested when genuinely tired.I just feel that we lacked understanding at the back and suffered for it last year.Im not saying that was the only reason we never challenged but it was the most obvious and the easiest to fix.
If we have luck with no injuries to key players and Rafa resists rotating too much we can be serious contenders.
I know a lot wont agree but rather than rotate and rest players in League games i would be tempted to let the fringe players and even reserves play in the Carling Cup and maybe even the FA cup.
Lets face it if we benefit from doing so in the league it would be well worth it.
Concentrate on the big 2 the C/L and the holy grail that we have waited way too long for...The League

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:24 pm

I agree with John about Arsenal.I would be very concerned if i was an Arsenal fan

I'm sure we've all been here before talking them down because they're to young blah blah. They lost Henry, thye've lost Viera etc.

Being a LFC, is quite ironic to say "if I were an Arsenal fan I'd be worried" they always finnish above us, we should be worried about us more.

by **bigmick** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:31 pm

Good topic starter John and some interesting points. My take is that although Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United are going to lose players in the closed season, it will be difficult to overtake more than one of them.

United look like nailed on Champions once again to me, as they have the best players. I'm of the opinion that they only made it interesting last season with Fergie experimenting with his own version of styling, and that in actual fact they were by a distance the best team last term. They fell out of the blocks (which won't happen again) and then rested practically their whole team Away to Chelsea for instance (inevitably losing the match) and along the way cost themselves points with bizarre selections. I don't know the stats, but my impression was that they went in for mass rotation much more than they have previously. Some might say it paid off with them winning the League and Champions league, but I would counter that they were a Steve Bennet favour and a John Terry slip away from winning feck all. That would have been a massive under-achievement given their team, and I'd be surprised if the same mistakes are made again. I expect Anderson and Nani also to step up, they are both excellent players and they will draw level with us this year I should think in terms of titles won. Horrible as it is to contemplate, I simply can't see anyone stopping them.

Chelsea will be hard to pass simply because they have such huge resources. I think Scolari is a top manager, and I expect them to run Man Utd close. Come the end of the whole thing, I think they'll be three or four points adrift.

Arsenal probably over-achieved last season. This is where I don't really agree with the widely held notion that Wenger committed some type of football crime by not rotating heavily. I must say in the Champions League quarter final when Adebayor put them in front at Anfield with nine minutes left, we didn't look to be overrunning them at that stage to me anyway. I remain of the opinion that more significant than stamina in those ties was the fact that Hleb didn't get his penalty and Babel did. Chelsea showed that the "rotation keeps you fresher" argument doesn't necessarily hold water and I actually think Wenger did an excellent job getting a genuine title challenge out of that squad. Despite their managers positively alchemic knack of finding new players, I think they'll miss the loss of some of their better ones and finish fourth, probably about twelve points back.

We for me are the hardest ones to pick. We finished eleven back last season, despite hampering ourselves for the first two thirds of the campaign. Although on the face of it we could and should have been much closer, I also think Man Utd will find another four or five points on top of last seasons total in the next season. If we choose to hamper ourselves again (and I must say I'm a little concerned by a couple of Rafa's recent comments) then of course IMHO we have absolutely no chance whatsoever of launching a challenge, and will finish well back again, all done by Christmas most likely. If one the other hand we go for consistency of selection (and no I don't mean we should play the same team in every single game) and we sign a couple more players, we can I think go very close. If we find a plan and broadly stick to it like we did in the last third of the season, I think the title will be a three horse race between ourselves, Chelsea and Man Utd. We might not win it (infact i don't think we will) but we won't be far off either. I think we'll finish four or five points away, plenty close enough to have a hopefully successful push at it the following season. It would be poetic if the Mancs did finally catch us to win it the next season and pull clear again.

In one sense though we do have a slight advantage as we are unique amongst the top four in that what we need to do in order to improve is fairly obvious.

by **Sabre** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:37 pm

I don't know the English market as you lot.

But I'm chuffed with the Ronaldo affaire. Real Madrid is gonna pay money in the region of 70M quid, no more.

If Manchester United sells, they won't buy the likes of Berbatov or Huntelaar cheaply, and a couple of players maybe won't fill the gap Ronaldo will leave in that *team*.

If Manchester doesn't sell, no doubt that the atmosphere in the dressroom with Ronaldo won't be nice. And that's always good.

So all this affaire is good for Liverpool.

I'm a bit worried to see how already good teams with good managers are reinforcing well this summer, like Tottenham. It wouldn't surprise me to see them close to the top four.

by **Number 9** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:38 pm

Bamaga man wrote:
I agree with John about Arsenal.I would be very concerned if i was an Arsenal fan

I'm sure we've all been here before talking them down because they're to young blah blah. They lost Henry, thye've lost Viera etc.

Being a LFC, is quite ironic to say "if I were an Arsenal fan I'd be worried" they always finnish above us, we should be worried about us more.

Fair enough point but a lot of important players going one way and little talk of any coming in the opposite direction is a worry for any team.
I only really know one die hard Arsenal fan and he is concerned,also about the size of the squad which showed to be a weakness at the end of last season when they were all drained of energy!

Anyway im always confident at this stage maybe i should'nt be but thats just the way it is!!

by **stmichael** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:40 pm

I suppose when you look at how quickly Man Utd and Chelsea looked to widen the gap between us and them via large spending, and how we've kept close, I certainly start to appreciate how well Rafa has done. Last season we finished eleven points off of Man Utd and nine points off Chelsea who have probably spent two or three times the amount we've spent. Now we're in a position where we might be able to spend a decent amount of money to close that gap. No one could have won us the title by now, and not many would have put up with the clubs financial system, but Rafa has won us an FA Cup, and Champions League. He has gotten us into a position where when we look back we only need two or three results changed to win the League. Unfortunately last year, I saw some backwards steps, namely in our frustrating inability to kill off lesser sides, something we'd eradicated in the previous couple of seasons. I think we dropped something like 15 points against Wigan, Birmingham, West Ham, Boro and the like which was very disappointing.

by **bigmick** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:48 pm

Indeed on the dropping points against lesser teams Mike, Owzats stats have graphically demonstrated that. It was though the results at pompey away, followed by Birminham at home which put our title aspirations to bed. It wasn't that they were desperately bad results, (though the Brum one in particular was a bit of a let down) it was the manner, the message we sent out in the way we approached the game. Once you demonstrate to the players and to everyone else that you are willing to sacrifice points then you are conceding the title. I think in our heart of hearts, once those two results had been chalked up we knew it was all over for another year. I suppose looking on the bright side it was better than the previous season where it was practically all over for us after three or four games. Some of us even feared the worst after one game, Sheffield United Away and the odd selection there.

No, this season we need to give ourselves a chance. Lennon didn't say it but he might as well have, "all we are saying, is give us a chance".

by **JC_81** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:23 pm

Another concern I have is the amount of players we are bringing in and that Rafa may once again be trying to plug too many gaps.

If this summer we had let Crouch and Riise go and signed Dossena/another left back, a replacement striker and one top quality winger, then I'd have been happy with our business.

As it goes we have already signed 3 for the first team squad, let go of 4 and seem to be spending a lot of time trying to essentially trade Alonso for Barry, without addressing the issues of a replacement striker and a quality winger. By the time August comes, we could be looking at up to 6 new faces in the first team squad. It's too many. These guys then have to settle into the club and get used to the way we play. It won't help our early season form, I can guarantee you that.

Compare that with our rivals - you won't see them buying in half a dozen new faces this summer. It'll be 2 or 3 buys of quality. Chelsea may sign more but they can be forgiven as it's a new manager with new ideas and may want some of his own players in.

by **Number 9** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:30 pm

john craig wrote:Another concern I have is the amount of players we are bringing in and that Rafa may once again be trying to plug too many gaps.

If this summer we had let Crouch and Riise go and signed Dossena/another left back, a replacement striker and one top quality winger, then I'd have been happy with our business.

As it goes we have already signed 3 for the first team squad, let go of 4 and seem to be spending a lot of time trying to essentially trade Alonso for Barry, without addressing the issues of a replacement striker and a quality winger. By the time August comes, we could be looking at up to 6 new faces in the first team squad. It's too many. These guys then have to settle into the club and get used to the way we play. It won't help our early season form, I can guarantee you that.

Compare that with our rivals - you won't see them buying in half a dozen new faces this summer. It'll be 2 or 3 buys of quality. Chelsea may sign more but they can be forgiven as it's a new manager with new ideas and may want some of his own players in.

Well if that does be the case its proof that Rafa is still obsessed with having a huge squad and will probably continue rotating players a lot more than needed.
Groundhog day 5!
And very likely 4th again!

by **stmichael** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:34 pm

the deco signing is a strange one by chelsea. yes i know he's a class act but i'd like to see him putting it all in on a cold wednesday night away at bolton.

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