Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:21 am

GBJH, as far as I'm concerned mate, regarding zonal marking. I think your talking out your brown eye.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:00 am

zonal system is like the triangle offence in the NBA... only the Lakers play it at its full repertoire under Phil Jackson... now only we play the zonal system at its full repertoire under Rafa Benitez... if the system doesn't work then there wouldn't be the system... just because the triangle offence didn't win the Lakers the championship after Shaq left doesn't mean that the system doesn't work...

50% of what I just said is nonsense of course... but the logic of the argument is sound

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:56 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:well bob, you'll see how well it works when we conceed to another set peice against Arsenal on Saturday.

Did you see it Bob? Did you see Arsenal score against us from yet another set peice?

Again the fella just strolls in from six yards out, gets a jump on Crouch and heads home. :censored:

easy. The only fella who I saw clear the ball from set plays for Liverpool was the lad on debut, Plessiss. He cleared most things.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:59 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:well bob, you'll see how well it works when we conceed to another set peice against Arsenal on Saturday.

Did you see it Bob? Did you see Arsenal score against us from yet another set peice?

Again the fella just strolls in from six yards out, gets a jump on Crouch and heads home. easy. The only fella who I saw clear the ball from set plays for Liverpool was the lad on debut, Plessiss. He cleared most things.

I knew you were gonna come back on this...

man marking wouldn't have done better in this case... it was crouch who was marking adebayor and he won't get anywhere near him once he makes his run... reina should've come for the ball...

edit: sorry bendtner not adebayor

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:10 pm

It was an embarrassment, typical zonal marking, a player just strolling in unmarked 6 yards out. If Reina had come for it, he'd of looked like a fool because Bendter would of won the header anyway. So Reina would of been left in no man's land. It's zonal marking where they've left him stroll through and score and take two points off us.

by **woof woof !** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:13 pm

The ball into the box was indeed poorly defended but you can't excuse Reina from all culpability , we may as well have just planted a lampost in the middle of our goal.

Fine keeper that he is , as others have pointed out , high balls into a crowded box often leave him found out, he was found out again today.

by **maguskwt** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:31 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:It was an embarrassment, typical zonal marking, a player just strolling in unmarked 6 yards out. If Reina had come for it, he'd of looked like a fool because Bendter would of won the header anyway. So Reina would of been left in no man's land. It's zonal marking where they've left him stroll through and score and take two points off us.

the cross destination and the subsequent header was in the six yard box, in other words the keeper's area... if it was a keeper who is strong in the air like van der sar or cech they would've owned that ball...

hopefully conceding this kind of goal again from a set piece will make rafa pay extra attention during preparation for our game at anfield...

by **Bad Bob** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:38 pm

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
god_bless_john_houlding wrote:well bob, you'll see how well it works when we conceed to another set peice against Arsenal on Saturday.

Did you see it Bob? Did you see Arsenal score against us from yet another set peice?

Again the fella just strolls in from six yards out, gets a jump on Crouch and heads home. easy. The only fella who I saw clear the ball from set plays for Liverpool was the lad on debut, Plessiss. He cleared most things.

Another failure in execution...the system is fine. :nod

by **bigmick** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:49 pm

I haven't seen the goal so comment on IT, but one things foir sure the set-piece goals conceded are starting to become a bit of a worry. I'm a firm advocate of zonal marking and there's no chance whatsoever of us changing the system at this stage, but we definately need some hard work on the training ground that's for sure.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:15 pm

I've gotta laugh here.

I criticse zonal marking...reply back is..."how can you complain when it's got us the best denfence and Reina's golden gloves for two years" (words to that affect) now when it's proven that teams are finding us out and zonal marking is costing us dearly the reply is "Reina is undecisive" Well it was this "undecisive" keeper who helped zonal marking work so well in previous years wasn't it? It was this "undecisive" keeper who has won the golden gloves two years running...so what's happened him to him then? Is he past it already? Have teams found out? Was he just made to look good by a great defence ahead of him? No, no, no. He's the best keeper in the world IMO, and is being overly criticised because of this pathetic zonal marking which, hasn't worked under Benitez to any great degree.

For me it wasn't Reina's ball today, contact was made with the ball from six yards out, he had little if any time to react. He couldn't of caught the ball on the six yard box with bodies ontop of him and if we out to claim it, he'd have to outjump the bodies around the penalty spot. For me Reina, is like our entire back four at the moment. He's showing signs of his best (the shots saved against Arteta, Famini and Ronaldo in recent weeks) and also signs of his worst (coming out and missing the ball completely against Arsenal in europe) The entire defense is struggling to find any rythm because it's a different back four week in week out. When (people considered zonal marking working at it's best) it was the same back four/five every week. Reina, Finnan, Carra, Hyypia, Riise. It then moved onto Carra and Agger with the odd arrival of Aurelio or Arbeloa as full back. Now there's no cohersion amongst the back four. No communication, and possibly to some extent no trust in each other. Finnan one week, then Arbeloa then Carra for right back. Carra, Agger, Skrtel, Hyypia and Arbeloa have all partnered one another during this season at the heart of the defence and left back has gone Aurelio, Riise, Arebloa.

Great sides are built from the back. When we were at our best you knew it was Clemo, Zico (phil neal) Hughes, Smith, Jones. United at their best you knew it was Schmichael, Neville, Pallister, Bruce, Irwin. Chelsea who messed around with their back four earlier in the season down to injuries and struggled at the start of the season (cost Mourinho his job) now they have a fully fit defense, Grant's settled on a side and it's getting him results. We have said so often about how Gerrard and Torres are reaping the awards of playing with each other reguarlly, the defence needs to do the same. I'm not using it to excuse the zonal marking fiasco this season because as most will know I don't agree with zonal marking anyway, but I can understand and appriciate those who may use this excuse. ]

Blaming indiviuals for the amount of goals we've conceeded recently from set plays is beyond the joke to me. All 11 players track back and mark their little zone, so nobody is excused from the blame. They all should deal with the situation better than they have been recently.

by **RedBlood** » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:32 pm

i think zonal marking only works if everybody does their job and knows what that job is, new players ie skrtel cant be blamed for this as it takes time.
Reina world class that he is imo is not the best at collecting crosses but by no means as bad as some people are making him out to be.

I think a lack of concentration has let us down this season from set pieces more then anything because it has been proved in the past that zonal marking can be very effective for us, i think the loss of agger hasnt helped as he seems to clear alot of corners free kicks etc

by **66-1112520797** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:09 am

For me it wasn't Reina's ball today

I'm staring to think your a WUM or just an idiot.

by **Owzat** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:54 am

RedBlood wrote:i think zonal marking only works if everybody does their job and knows what that job is, new players ie skrtel cant be blamed for this as it takes time.

There's no doubt whatsoever in man2man marking who picks up who, in zonal there is every doubt. I think someone else says luck plays a big part in zonal mark, I'm inclined to agree. And I think the attacking side can exploit zonal marking by moving unmarked into the area or any part of the area, by finding space they immediately make a nonsense of the system as it then is down to luck if anyone picks that runner up or can do anything about it.

Of course one big advantage to man2man marking is you're moving with the man you're marking, if he is still so are you, if he is moving you should be too. Zonal is just too much like a game of musical statues

by **JC_81** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:38 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:It was an embarrassment, typical zonal marking, a player just strolling in unmarked 6 yards out. If Reina had come for it, he'd of looked like a fool because Bendter would of won the header anyway. So Reina would of been left in no man's land. It's zonal marking where they've left him stroll through and score and take two points off us.

You're full of it mate.

It wouldn't matter if we used man marking, zonal marking or if our defenders were all on step ladders, Reina should have come for that ball and it goes down as an individual error by him.

To blame zonal marking on that goal shows either a complete lack of understanding of the game or a childish stubbornness to try and convince the rest of us that zonal marking is the root cause of evrything that doesn't go our way. Give it a rest.

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:55 pm

im confused. zonal marking, a player defends an area assigned to him. so whatever or whoever comes into the box the player should deal with it. however what if someone like adebayor, who is so tall, goes into the area alonso or mash is marking? how about zonal marking, with 2 or 3 of our players marking the ''dangermen''? that should work fine.

Liverpool FC Forum

The new system, - Where did it all go wrong?

Who is online