Liverpool FC Forum

Cool Hand Luke wrote:

bigmick wrote:I haven't got onto reading it all yet, but can we assume that as Saturday was nothing to do with the manager, all down to the players, injuries, the owners etc that tonights win will be nothing to do with the manager as well? The players seemed really motivated tonight, whereas they didn't on Saturday. As their lack of motivation on Saturday was absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the manager, the high tempo and effort shown tonight wasn't something he contributed to in any way shape or form either?     

Seriously, the manager did very well tonight as he often does in this competition. Well done to him for producing under the greatest of presure and the closest of scrutiny. Hats off to him and the team.

The team had a lack of motivation against Barnsley?

Emerald Red wrote:

Cool Hand Luke wrote:

bigmick wrote:I haven't got onto reading it all yet, but can we assume that as Saturday was nothing to do with the manager, all down to the players, injuries, the owners etc that tonights win will be nothing to do with the manager as well? The players seemed really motivated tonight, whereas they didn't on Saturday. As their lack of motivation on Saturday was absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the manager, the high tempo and effort shown tonight wasn't something he contributed to in any way shape or form either?     

Seriously, the manager did very well tonight as he often does in this competition. Well done to him for producing under the greatest of presure and the closest of scrutiny. Hats off to him and the team.

The team had a lack of motivation against Barnsley?

Yeah, that raised my eyebrow too.

Let's be honest, we battered them all over the pitch but just couldn't score. Should have been 10-0. End of.

redtrader74 wrote:Being labelled Pro Rafa grates with some of us only because our support of him is NOT based on what we believe is best for him, but what would be best for the Club. His CV before coming to our Club and his successes since have given a fair few of us confidence in his ability to continue achieving. Having A bad season is not enough IMO to dismiss him and start all over again. I suppose the point of contention being that OVERALL i think each season Rafa has been incharge, prior to this one, has had success in it, conversely many are ready to point only to the League deficiencies, as though that is the only prize we play for. Although the LEague stats are not impressive, IMO Rafas first three years have been about getting us into a position to challenge, and the frustration and anger towards him this season has been because WE all thought we'd be there or there abouts. I think that includes the players aswell, and may also be another reason why they are serving us dross right now, I get the feeling they want to press reset and start the season all over again. 

I would like him to have another season only because i don't want to start another rebuilding phase, while our opposition get further ahead, I want us to remain a Club that takes a longer term view, that understands there will be ups and down but that we don't react to press speculation and a run of bad results. Personally Rafa has earnt the right to have a season without upheaval and with the players he has assembled, again many believe that the off field activities shouldn't affect the manager and players performances, I fail to see how it cannot. If the full backing and continual support of the board and owners is seen as a vital ingredient to success (for example Wenger and Fergie) why then would the opposite not also be true? He is vilified for not having taken on an assistant, but how can he hire one when he doesn't know if he will be here past the Summer? and he needs one.

The main failings for me have been that Rafa hasn't sorted out the strikers, stats wise Kuyt and Morientes should have worked but scouting should have identified why they wouldn't work in the EPL. Crouch and Voronin didn't even have the stats to help them, they are also not top Class, we sometimes turn to Crouch but only because he is marginally better than the rest, but is still mediocre. Can't he pick class? well given the moola he got us Torres, even if our Spanish correspondant thought he would fail    Also i would like him to stop playing players out of position, not done an awful lot, but whenever he does, it is a glaringly obvious weakness.

As long as we qualify for CL football, get that excellent strike partner for Torres and the owners leave him to it, then i have every confidence we will see that challenge we want in the League. It is only fair on Rafa and US that we get to see the best he can offer.

BTW good post Mick.

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Doesn't it just show though Mick, that his priority is Europe?

I'm not trying to slag him off here, I'm over the moon with tonight's result and performance, but for him to get the best out of the players tonight and not on Saturday does that show AS A CLUB (not just Benitez) AS A CLUB (fans included) that they can only get up for the European nights. I mean I was there on the Kop for both games and tonight the noise was unbearable whereas against Barnsley you could hear a pin drop, even when we were winning. Last 16 of both competitions, yet there seems to be something surrounding the club that Europe must come first.

greenred wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Doesn't it just show though Mick, that his priority is Europe?

I'm not trying to slag him off here, I'm over the moon with tonight's result and performance, but for him to get the best out of the players tonight and not on Saturday does that show AS A CLUB (not just Benitez) AS A CLUB (fans included) that they can only get up for the European nights. I mean I was there on the Kop for both games and tonight the noise was unbearable whereas against Barnsley you could hear a pin drop, even when we were winning. Last 16 of both competitions, yet there seems to be something surrounding the club that Europe must come first.

Champions of Europe means more than Champions of England

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:

greenred wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Doesn't it just show though Mick, that his priority is Europe?

I'm not trying to slag him off here, I'm over the moon with tonight's result and performance, but for him to get the best out of the players tonight and not on Saturday does that show AS A CLUB (not just Benitez) AS A CLUB (fans included) that they can only get up for the European nights. I mean I was there on the Kop for both games and tonight the noise was unbearable whereas against Barnsley you could hear a pin drop, even when we were winning. Last 16 of both competitions, yet there seems to be something surrounding the club that Europe must come first.

Champions of Europe means more than Champions of England

Maybe to narrow minded fans like you. But to fans like me who think it's much more satisfying to win your own domestic league then it's all about the league.

The league is like a cup, in it's one off games. But you can't get lucky in all 38 games. You have to perform, so where it's a one off game you still need the quality and ability. The league is much more important, especially to scouse fans.

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:The league is like a cup, in it's one off games. But you can't get lucky in all 38 games. You have to perform, so where it's a one off game you still need the quality and ability. The league is much more important, especially to scouse fans.

maguskwt wrote:today's football success is not measured with only league success... there are 3 major trophies to compete for not only league... if anyone's narrow minded it's you for thinking that there's only the league...

maguskwt wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:Doesn't it just show though Mick, that his priority is Europe?

I'm not trying to slag him off here, I'm over the moon with tonight's result and performance, but for him to get the best out of the players tonight and not on Saturday does that show AS A CLUB (not just Benitez) AS A CLUB (fans included) that they can only get up for the European nights. I mean I was there on the Kop for both games and tonight the noise was unbearable whereas against Barnsley you could hear a pin drop, even when we were winning. Last 16 of both competitions, yet there seems to be something surrounding the club that Europe must come first.

that is just damn ridiculous... you cannot honestly say that rafa came to liverpool just to win CL? "heyyyy... that team in liverpool seems like it has the players to win the CL so i'm gonna go over there and sign for them!" ??.... pure nonsense... rafa's tactics might suit europe more but that doesn't mean that he's not trying equally hard to win the league as well which is what you made it out to be... don't forget it was 21 years before we got the european trophy again under benitez... the team seemed more likely to win the league than the CL before benitez came... so to say that he only wants to win the CL is just ridiculous...

bigmick wrote:

maguskwt wrote:today's football success is not measured with only league success... there are 3 major trophies to compete for not only league... if anyone's narrow minded it's you for thinking that there's only the league...

That said I don't really agree with this. It would be fair to say that the Liverpool manager (given we haven't won it for the best part of a generation) needs to make a fist of the league. Like most people who support the mananger, magus refers to us not winning the league, then often asks who we could get that could make us win it. My beef is not so much that we haven't won it under Rafa, but that we've never ever even for an instant launched a challenge. That's not good enough, and no amount of super Cup, Youth Cup, Champions league or FA Cup success however nice, will disguise the fact.

ConnO'var wrote:

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:The league is like a cup, in it's one off games. But you can't get lucky in all 38 games. You have to perform, so where it's a one off game you still need the quality and ability. The league is much more important, especially to scouse fans.

Don't quite agree with you here, John....

League games are not like cup games. In cup games, you need to win to progress. In the league, the option is there to go for one point and not the win.

An option frequently taken by the smaller teams when playing against the big clubs.

Cup games tend to be more open most times as the old maxim does apply.... You need to score to win..... can't just defend. With the advent of penalty kicks... some teams still try to defend for the full 120 mins but that is much riskier.

So the two are not quite the same entities, IMHO.