Liverpool FC Forum

by **Toffeehater** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:39 am

Kharhaz wrote:
s@int wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
s@int wrote:I suppose you were all saying that when he scored the first goal in the CL final or the equaliser in the FA cup final? No? Maybe when he scored the winner against Olympiacos then ?

No we were admiring Gerrard as as world class player who can change a game with a moment of genius, not many games with moments of leadership.

What are these examples of great leadership that other Captains have shown that Gerrard hasn't? Coming back from the edge of disaster, maybe 3-0 down in a final perhaps ? Whether you shout and scream, or just inspire people with your ability, there is only so much a captain can do. I don't honestly know if he's a good captain or not, I do know he can inspire the team with his ability.

What do these great captains do that Gerrard doesn't?

The captains who have got us 3 points in games in which we havent deserved one, in each and every game, the captain who points at the underachievers that day in any league game, there are many. The player who will point out hey, no cup just points, but these points add up to a league title. That kind of captain.

start naming a few then just don't give views on what an ideal captain is for u

by **banana** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:53 am

Garrard is a good player. An internatioal player. Unfortunately he is so good as many of you like to think.

He is quick and strong and he has a good shot.

But his shortcomings are also obvious to the trained eye. He can't turn with the ball. He is uncomfortable under pressure. He is wasteful in possession. He lacks vision and creativity.

That is why he is not working in central midfield for club and for country.

Having said that. Lampard and Barry are both worse and the 3 of the put together is a disaster.

by **Toffeehater** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:57 am

banana wrote:Garrard is a good player. An internatioal player. Unfortunately he is so good as many of you like to think.

He is quick and strong and he has a good shot.

But his shortcomings are also obvious to the trained eye. He can't turn with the ball. He is uncomfortable under pressure. He is wasteful in possession. He lacks vision and creativity.

That is why he is not working in central midfield for club and for country.

Having said that. Lampard and Barry are both worse and the 3 of the put together is a disaster.

I agree with u on the turning part but saying he lacks vision ?? time after time he has delivered pin point crosses , check the season whr he scored 23 goals from the right and u will see , He is uncomfortable under pressure? maybe for england and yesterday yes as they were chasing the game but for club he guards the ball well under pressure and can still deliver a good ball .. Gerrard was playing central yesterday and has been for almost the whole time being in the squad , having said that did u even watch the match?

by **tubby** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:52 am

Well at least we dont have to worry about him getting injured for England now haha

by **Bammo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:49 am

Gerrard hasn't been able to reproduce his Liverpool form for England for numerous reasons:

1) He hasn't had a clearly defined role. When playing with Lumplard he never looked sure when he was supposed to be attacking or defending.

2) The step-up in class means it's much more difficult for him to impose himself on the game every game.

3) Expectation. There were (very brief) glimpses of his true potential last night but too often he tries to force the play for England because he's supposed to be picking the team up. He'd probably be more successful if he relaxed and played his natural game. So many times last night (and in past England games) he was dropping into the defence and trying to play 50 yard balls. Get up the pitch and do damage from there!!

by **PhiLFC** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:02 am

Bammo wrote:...So many times last night (and in past England games) he was dropping into the defence and trying to play 50 yard balls. Get up the pitch and do damage from there!!

Spot on mate.

by **burjennio** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:10 am

Bammo2) The step-up in class means it's much more difficult for him to impose himself on the game every game.

Step up in class?

Yeah the liks of Croatia, Russia and Macedonia would cr@p all over Arsenal Chelsea and ManUtd wouldnt they.....

by **Bammo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:20 am

burjennio wrote:
Bammo2) The step-up in class means it's much more difficult for him to impose himself on the game every game.

Step up in class?

Yeah the liks of Croatia, Russia and Macedonia would cr@p all over Arsenal Chelsea and ManUtd wouldnt they.....

They're a bit better than Villa, Everton, Newcastle, Boro, Birmingham etc though.

If Gerrard played Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea every week do you think he'd dominate every single game?

The point I'm tryint to make is that because of his league form he's expected to run every game for England. The average standard is higher in internationals so it's more difficult for Gerrard to be consistently good.

by **burjennio** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:03 pm

How many of the Croatia side would fit into even the Everton team? I would say only the young lad Modric, maybe Krancjar, but none of the others

You can flip your that argument round and say is the England national team of higher quality than the Liverpool team? I would say there not even to the standard of Aston Villa or Tottenham, or on the basis of last nights performance, Nuneaton

by **Bammo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:11 pm

You can flick your argument around though too. If none of those international teams are Premiership class, why aren't all Premiership players playing for their countries? Why is it a step-up to international class if that's a worse level?

I think we're debating a trivial point rather than the big picture

Something we'll both agree on is that England don't play as a team. For all the complaints about Gerrard being shunted around the Liverpool formation (mostly from the media) he always knows his role. For England it's obvious he doesn't have a clue sometimes where he's supposed to be on the pitch or what his responsibilities are.

If England want to succeed they need to play in a stable system. Rotation/system changes doesn't work at international level where players only have a few days to train together. If England want the best out of Gerrard, play him as an attacking midfielder with licence to roam and have a decent holding midfielder behind him.

by **stmichael** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:22 pm

Gerrards performance last night was just like his worst performances for us when he loses the run of himself - hollywood balls, headless runs, forcing the play, no guile. Last night should tell us all he is not a central midfielder in the classic sense of what that position means. End of.

I still maintain that his best position is on the right.

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:26 pm

I think to a certain extent we have lost the ability to build up play in this country, too many early, hollywood or hopefull passes, rather than passing through a team. Passing the ball from one fullback to the other via the centre backs is not what I mean, keeping possession whilst advancing as a team is. The lack of a creativity was again apparent last night , with our most subtle passes being the hoof up front for Crouch to fight for.

by **Bammo** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:29 pm

I think his best performances for England have come when he's been on the right. Given the lack of decent right-sided players for England (Beckham's getting on a bit, SWP and Lennon lack a killer final ball) he could be the answer. Then that would help ease the central midfield problem.

by **Emerald Red** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:51 pm

Strange thing. I was just thinking this just before I logged on the computer. Gerrard is terrible for England and should just hang up his boots and concentrate on the club like Carra did. F*ck the rest of those overhyped, egotistical w@nkers anyway. England's problem is that some of the players actually think they are better than what they are. They often do the wrong thing at the wrong time just to seek the glory and get the adoration of the back page (or front) of the rags the next day. The papers pick the team of England. I've always said it. Beckham and Owen has been milking that cow for years and Fat Frank, Joe Cole (especially Joe Cole) want some of that action too.

by **puroresu** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:03 pm

Far too many hollywood passes. I'll never forget the game we lost at St Mary's v Southampton in 05. One of the worst LFC performances I have ever seen and this scouser behind me was just slating gerrard. "Stevie get into this game. U think your in hollywood". Made me crack up!!

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