Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ace Ventura** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:16 am

I dont know any fan that would welcome the sacking of Rafa, we all know that he is a top manager.
But even top managers make mistakes, all most fans are worried about is will he learn from them ? So far the answer is no, that is backed by results in not only this season but the previous one as well.
Lets just hope he keeps playing the same side that played against Spurs and then we will pick up the results thats required to stay with Arsenal and United, the quality is there.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:17 am

Don't panic

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:19 am

Ace Ventura wrote:I dont know any fan that would welcome the sacking of Rafa, we all know that he is a top manager.
But even top managers make mistakes, all most fans are worried about is will he learn from them ? So far the answer is no, that is backed by results in not only this season but the previous one as well.
Lets just hope he keeps playing the same side that played against Spurs and then we will pick up the results thats required to stay with Arsenal and United, the quality is there.

this is the big think for me as well mate, we all make mistakes but we learn from them and change them, rafa is too stubborn where this is concerned, well he is stubborn in relation to rotation and setting up to not lose rather than to win.

this is what needs to change, swallow his pride and then its onwards and upwards, bit I ain't holding my breath

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:22 am

Ciggy wrote:We where sh.ite last season though and Pako was here.

Ah yes, but Pako was responsible for the good things we did and the good results, all the :censored:

stuff was Rafa.

by **dawson99** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:27 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:
Ciggy wrote:We where sh.ite last season though and Pako was here.

Ah yes, but Pako was responsible for the good things we did and the good results, all the stuff was Rafa.

finally starting to realise

by **Red @ Heart** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:36 am

IN REPLY TO AN EARLIER POST,

I think we could afford to sack Rafa on the basis the next manager would not need money to buy a winning team, we have a winning team all ready, its just how you use the players, and rafa aint doing that because of the R word, give the new manager time obviously because he would need to get to know them on a personal player basis, And dont ask me who the next manager should be for Liverpool because i dont know.

But saying all this i dont really want Rafa sacked i just wished he would swallow his pride take the wrap and say the rotation aint working and pick a strong team and stick to it, i do actually like the man, but if all this keeps up who knows eh?

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:41 am

Ah yes, but Pako was responsible for the good things we did and the good results, all the stuff was Rafa

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Pako took charge of all the CL games while Rafa concentrated on the league last season, up until the final when Rafa took over. Same with all our buys Torres , Agger, Reina,Mascherano all Pako's picks, Morientes Gonzales etc Rafa's

by **66-1112520797** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:58 am

s@int wrote:
Ah yes, but Pako was responsible for the good things we did and the good results, all the stuff was Rafa

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Pako took charge of all the CL games while Rafa concentrated on the league last season, up until the final when Rafa took over. Same with all our buys Torres , Agger, Reina,Mascherano all Pako's picks, Morientes Gonzales etc Rafa's

by **Sabre** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:18 am

The rock

Fact
1)He hasn't really bought players who would bring us to the next level.... Don't get me wrong Torres, Agger, Reina, Alonso, Mascherano have improved the team...but what about rest of his purchases ? Kuyt, Voronin, Babel, Auerlio, Gonzales, Morientes, Sissoko, Crouch..Do u think Arsenal, Manure and chelsea will have these players in their team let alone the starting line-up ? He hasn't improved the LW since houllier's time. He hasn't improved our RB (finnan is 32)....He hasn't bought back-up for carra (agger is replacement for hyppia).

2)He simply doesn't buy players suited to the english league. Pace is very important here. Look at the arsenal team. The whole team is filled with pace players...Look at Manure. But rafa buys players more for their "jack of all trades ...master of none" trait than anything else. This is his 4th season....How many pace players we have here ? Torres, Babel...... thats about it.

3)The Big "R"....... Rafa must think he is in a twilight zone or something...where only he is right and others are seriously "wacko jacko"

a)The ex-players all hate rotation...None of them speak fondly about it...think about it....They are ex-LFC players. They care about the club. They played for the club. They won trophies for the club. So when i raise the same comment they have...some ppl here call me fickle and ask me to feck off....... (esp when they support a spanish club and LFC is just their "2nd" favourite)

b)The football writers hate it....Well i don't usually give a sh1t about what they think..but you have to be amazed why universally they condemn it.....

c)The fans hate it......Just go anywhere in the world and ask LFC fans....be it in england, states, asia, other parts of europe, africa...juz ask them about what they think of the rotation.... you get the same answers. The team does not look cohesive. The players play like individuals not as a team....are more of the common ones.....

d)Even the liverpool players under rafa hate it....I am sure you have read about current players talking to the media about the big "R"....

The thing is...only rafa (and some members here) seem to support the BIG "R"......You have to wonder why others oppose it...

Excuse me, you mention happiness of fans in Asia and Africa and America, as a point against Rafa's management?

You mention that football writers hate it?

And of course the adaptation plan includes no "R" even if for some strange reason Gerrard seems with dead legs and tired after a midweek.

Any good plan of adaptation of course, as any football man knows, includes 6-7 signing ups

And of course Rafa hasn't bought pace this season, Torres and Babel are slow.

How's that serious?

:sleepy:

I wouldn't have a problem with this gloom an doom posters, it's like when we have posters talking about we should sign Villa, Kaka, and Joaquin, it's part of this forum.

I just hope to keep reading the good posters of this forum, which are plenty and anyone who has seen live football in the last years on a regular basis because, this kind of posting is very poor.

Who am I to question you? just a poster one of those fans around the world you mention in your points, if you have problems with my posts, complain to the mods

by **The_Rock** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:30 am

Save it Sociedad Sabre...... AND STICK TO YOUR SPANISH LEAGUE...

(where u can w@nk about "R" and playing slow, technical football....etc).

So how is Real Sociedad doing ? If i am not wrong, they are managed by chris coleman aren't they...... A good manager would u say..... :eyebrow

by **The_Rock** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:38 am

Btw sociedad sabre, u think my posting is bad.... I appreciate it....its up to u.

On the other hand peewee, connO'var and matrix kinda agree with it...

I am not making myself out to be a great poster and stuff...its just that in this forum you have the "power" to agree and disagree...and you have disagreed with me...

Thats fine....

I just want u to know...i haven't insulted you personally....
You on the other hand ....have repeatedly called my postings poor....... Maybe you are not as naive as what other members here have made u out to be..... :eyebrow

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:48 am

Sack rafa is premature in my view but I guess at least this thread has done something in that it has allowed those with major concerns to at least get a few things off their chests without being accused of being clueless.

I think the reality of not just the rotation and the sheer scale of it is now starting to really dawn on people and those of us who threw the toys out of the pram after Pompey Away are not being derided as over reacting so much now. However you sit on that particular issue, I think the undeniable conclusion of our little period of changes is that if you change the team 72 times in 13 matches, it's quite difficult to play flowing football. Most everyone I would think would now accept (even if it was only in private and not on here) that maybe, just maybe, we've overdone it just a tad. I believe now though that we are about to enter a period of relative stability where rafa will take a leaf out of Wengers book (one change from the team that played in Europe in midweek) and pick a core and stick to it. Hopefully that will put the rotation debate to bed and we can get onto debating the team..

On that subject, possibly even a bigger error than the team we picked at Pompey was the failure to buy a centre-half in the Summer. On the evidence of Sami's display yesterday, and it saddens me to say this about one of Liverpools best players over the last decade or so, he has absolutely gone and we need to plug the gap quickly. Though we knew he was devoid of pace, to see him getting beaten so comprehensively in the air by Berbatov for the two goals was like seeing a World Class boxer take one punch too many on his way down. This oversight from a manager who is famed for studying the training ground efforts of his squad is difficult tio comprehend to be honest. If Agger is not fit to play against Everton, you can expect them to play with Yakubu and Johnson swarming all over Hyppia and it may not be pretty. Not strengthening there was a big mistake in my view.

All in all though it confirms what some have felt for a bit. The manager is a good football man but he isn't a guru and he isn't God. He makes mistakes and like everybody else, plenty of them. It is the learning and moving on which will define him. He needs to learn from his, and find a way to inject some cavalier instinct, some abandon, dare I say it some fun into the players. We have the look of a troubled bunch of players at the moment who aren't enjoying their football. The contrast between ourselves, Arsenal, Man Utd and even Chelsea couldn't be more apparant. It is repairable in my opinion but it isn't going to repair itself by just doing more of the same. Bridges need to be rebuilt, and even if it's behind closed doors things need to be talked about, mistakes admitted to and we need to move on as a team.

And if we aren't going to play Crouch, we are at least one and arguably two strikers short. My suspicion is if we are still in contention in January (which hand on heart I have my doubts about TBH) we are going to need to go into the window and take a punt. It might need to be a big one, and it might need to come off.

by **Leonmc0708** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:51 am

bigmick wrote:I think the undeniable conclusion of our little period of changes is that if you change the team 72 times in 13 matches, it's quite difficult to play flowing football.

You have got to put it into context mate, injuries suspensions and two games (Toulouse home and Reading) accounted for 34 of those changes.

bigmick wrote:On that subject, possibly even a bigger error than the team we picked at Pompey was the failure to buy a centre-half in the Summer. On the evidence of Sami's display yesterday, and it saddens me to say this about one of Liverpools best players over the last decade or so, he has absolutely gone and we need to plug the gap quickly. Though we knew he was devoid of pace, to see him getting beaten so comprehensively in the air by Berbatov for the two goals was like seeing a World Class boxer take one punch too many on his way down. This oversight from a manager who is famed for studying the training ground efforts of his squad is difficult tio comprehend to be honest. If Agger is not fit to play against Everton, you can expect them to play with Yakubu and Johnson swarming all over Hyppia and it may not be pretty. Not strengthening there was a big mistake in my view.

Mentioned this elsewhere. I think Benitez has failed in this department more than anything. It was inevitable that one of our centre halves would go out with injury. As it happens boh have suffered serious injury, and hte frailties are hidden (Carra lung and Agger next two weeks) by the break for interntaionals.

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:08 am

Leonmc0708 wrote:You have got to put it into context mate, injuries suspensions and two games (Toulouse home and Reading) accounted for 34 of those changes.

No argument from me Leon that the fact that rafa has prioritsed the League (which lets face it we all clamoured for) has increased the headline number of changes. No doubt about it and if you say it accounted for 30 odd of them, no argument there. The thing is though, whether its 72 or 32, in twelve games or whatever it is its way too many for me. Nobody will ever convince me that the chopping around with the team has not had a major negative effect on our team play and what makes it so frustating is that we have the nucleus of a really excellent side, almost totally put together by Rafa. It would just be sods law if having assembled our best squad for fecking years, through bl00dy stubborness he left and then some other fecker came in and got all the credit.

The Hyppia thing as well mate I saw you mentioned in the other thread and I'm totally in agreement. I was shocked to see him getting done in the air like that and I really do believe it would be a mistake to play him against Everton at all to be honest. I think he will get absolutely monstered by Yakubu if he does play and if young Hobbs isn't a better bet than Sami right now, he has no business at the club.

by **hishhish** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:10 am

I am shocked at most of the comments in this forum. I read somewhere we have 6 more points than last year at the same time. We have a very young team, and it is still early, and with one game in hand we could be second.
Where are people seeeing the negative.
I hope no-one with any authority sees these posts, and more importantly if they do see them, no one at LFC is silly enough to make decisions based on such ramblings!

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