Liverpool FC Forum

[maypaxvobiscum]

rafa has lost his trusted number 2 because he was angry with who paco was friends with, just read that again and see how ridiculous that sounds, thats playground behaviour.

Peewee can you please direct me to where you got this information from. Obviously you have a direct source.

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport....e_id=43

im unsure if this helps

[account deleted by request]

Quote (Wilhelmsson @ Sep. 02 2007,15:36)
Quote (Rafa-Dodd @ Sep. 02 2007,14:04)
Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez fell out with his number two Pako Ayestaran because he was too friendly with Chelsea boss Jose Mourinho - Various newspapers.

Hope you don't Paco. If you do, you're a .

Is it not a tad bit gullible and silly to believe a short sentence with ‘various newspapers’? As for Paco being a (insert-profaneness), I feel that’s a bit harsh is it not? After all he has played an instrumental role in the recent successes of the club. I doubt Rafa and Paco would have fallen out over such a minor issue of Paco befriending Mourinho.

It wasn't befriending him - it was the fact he went over an virtually bummed him after the Potugese c*nt had robbed us again.

Couldn't he have waited until he was out of the public eye at least?

I'm 100% behind Rafa on this - we cannot have dissension in the ranks






Who could doubt Lando ?

[redtrader74]

rafa has lost his trusted number 2 because he was angry with who paco was friends with, just read that again and see how ridiculous that sounds, thats playground behaviour.

Peewee can you please direct me to where you got this information from. Obviously you have a direct source.

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport....e_id=43

im unsure if this helps

Thanks but it doesn't. Even IF true all it seems to say is that Pako shook hands and smiled at Jose, and probably asked about his dog!

[112-1077774096]

rafa has lost his trusted number 2 because he was angry with who paco was friends with, just read that again and see how ridiculous that sounds, thats playground behaviour.

Peewee can you please direct me to where you got this information from. Obviously you have a direct source.

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport....e_id=43

im unsure if this helps

yes, thats one of many articles on the subject, might be bollox but i tend to believe it giving rafas man management skills, like i say, with rafa it my way or the high way.

and do i have a problem with rafa, yes i think i do, i do not think he is doing a good job and i feel that he is not prepared to change in order to bring us success, like i have said many times if i try something and its obvious it isn't working, then persist with it for 3 years i would be out of a job, thats my problem with rafa, rafa comes across to me at the moment as not putting the club first, i get the impression he would rather prove his tactics to be correct even if they never will be

[maypaxvobiscum]

rafa has lost his trusted number 2 because he was angry with who paco was friends with, just read that again and see how ridiculous that sounds, thats playground behaviour.

Peewee can you please direct me to where you got this information from. Obviously you have a direct source.

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport....e_id=43

im unsure if this helps

yes, thats one of many articles on the subject, might be bollox but i tend to believe it giving rafas man management skills, like i say, with rafa it my way or the high way.

and do i have a problem with rafa, yes i think i do, i do not think he is doing a good job and i feel that he is not prepared to change in order to bring us success, like i have said many times if i try something and its obvious it isn't working, then persist with it for 3 years i would be out of a job, thats my problem with rafa, rafa comes across to me at the moment as not putting the club first, i get the impression he would rather prove his tactics to be correct even if they never will be

come to think about it, you're actually quite right on the bit about him wanting to prove his methods right. he has that type of aura around him 

but i dont understand why it is that the 2 camps cant be friendly with each other. i mean, fergie invites all the managers for a glass of wine doesnt he?

[redtrader74]

Rafa may be stubborn, i suppose all top managers are, and i'd hazard a guess that he's also intelligent enough to augment his methods should HE believe that it would improve performance, but to change his strategy completely, no chance, its why he has been so successful and why he is so highly sought after.

[account deleted by request]

I just hope he's not taking too much onboard now, he looked shattered on M.O.T.D. tonight. Losing 3 good coaches (two Pako's and Heighway) in 3 years, even though he has replaced two of them must take a heavy toll. We don't want another Houllier heart problem.

[112-1077774096]

well we must have different levels of expectations for success mate



seriously i liked the guy but i am more and more turning against him, he is not even prepared to steady the ship and play a consistent team to get us back to wining ways, he will plod on regardless while another league season goes down the pan, not a desirable trait mate

[The_Rock]

We won't win the league with rafa thats for sure..

If we get knocked out of champions league......

its good bye rafa.

Apart from torres, he hasn't bought well this season.... He buys babel for not sure what reason...he gets levia when we need a LW or a CB.....

And today, rafa should have told the players to strike the ball from distance as robinson isn't comfortable with long range shorts... But did the players do this ? I mean every team which played spurs shot a lot from outside the penalty box...

But rafa for some reason set out the team not to do that ? What a great tactician rafa is......

Seriously questioning rafa here...   

This is like houllier's 4th season.....

I like to finish by adding, i am a liverpool supporter not a rafa supporter (unlike some ppl here)...

hey rock...

ive defender rafa from day one,  but honestly ive had enough of whats going on at the moment...

i dont say this with any thrills but rafa has struggled the minute paco left...

rafa has the world on his shoulders right now...

alonso and agger, have been a big miss for us,  but that isnt the real problem...

its rafa,  ive just lost total faith in him, at this moment in time,  i dont say that with any happyness...

rafa your job is on the line right now, and you better believe that...   

I understand your stand....... because i am in the same boat. I was a huge supporter of rafa and he will always be a legend for winning no 5 (as will houllier for the 2001 treble) but there comes a time when u have to sit back and take an overview of whats happening....

Fact
1)He hasn't really bought players who would bring us to the next level.... Don't get me wrong  Torres, Agger, Reina, Alonso, Mascherano have improved the team...but what about rest of his purchases ? Kuyt, Voronin, Babel, Auerlio, Gonzales, Morientes, Sissoko, Crouch..Do u think Arsenal, Manure and chelsea will have these players in their team let alone the starting line-up ? He hasn't improved the LW since houllier's time. He hasn't improved our RB (finnan is 32)....He hasn't bought back-up for carra (agger is replacement for hyppia).

2)He simply doesn't buy players suited to the english league. Pace is very important here. Look at the arsenal team. The whole team is filled with pace players...Look at Manure. But rafa buys players more for their "jack of all trades ...master of none" trait than anything else. This is his 4th season....How many pace players we have here ? Torres, Babel...... thats about it.

3)The Big "R"....... Rafa must think he is in a twilight zone or something...where only he is right and others are seriously "wacko jacko"

a)The ex-players all hate rotation...None of them speak fondly about it...think about it....They are ex-LFC players. They care about the club. They played for the club. They won trophies for the club. So when i raise the same comment they have...some ppl here call me fickle and ask me to feck off....... (esp when they support a spanish club and LFC is just their "2nd" favourite) 

b)The football writers hate it....Well i don't usually give a sh1t about what they think..but you have to be amazed why universally they condemn it.....

c)The fans hate it......Just go anywhere in the world and ask LFC fans....be it in england, states, asia, other parts of europe, africa...juz ask them about what they think of the rotation.... you get the same answers. The team does not look cohesive. The players play like individuals not as a team....are more of the common ones.....

d)Even the liverpool players under rafa hate it....I am sure you have read about current players talking to the media about the big "R"....

The thing is...only rafa (and some members here) seem to support the BIG "R"......You have to wonder why others oppose it...

4)Look at how quiet the anfield crowd has become....We used to have the most passionate fans .... so what has happened ? Could it be because of those unpassionate OOTs....? Could it be because the pies they serve at anfield is so damn delicious ?

Or maybe its just because the team is so damn boring....that our style of play doesn't interest the crowd anymore ? Is it just me or have we become the most boring big team in the EPL ? Rafa doesn't buy talented players who can great goals out of nothing.....he buys robots who can fit into his system.... Does it then sit well with the new stadium coming up ? Will we be able to fill the stadium with a "bolton-style" football ?

I could go on and on...and get fired from my work (i am writing this from my office)....but i think i will better stop here....

I like to point out that i don't want rafa to be sacked ...... I just want him to adapt to EPL..Thats it.

To adapt he has to :

1)Stick to playing the strongest team possible (i am not saying the same team) and play it for the next 6 or 7 games. I know the line-up against spurs was strong...but how many changes were made from the champ league match ? That is the problem.. He makes too many changes until players do not understand each other during the game or that the players don't give a damn. (Just imagine crouch.... he could score a hatrick against marseille and still won't be in the match-day squad against spurs...do u think he will play 100 % ?)

2)For god sake, get a LW (or a RW) who is fast, can dribble and score goals in the JAN window... Not sure if at all kewell is gonna come back.....don't like riise as a LW (think i don't have to mention about babel and leto)...

3)Get someone who is quick and can backup carra. Lets not kid ourselves..carra isn't getting young. We should get someone to understudy and eventually replace him.

4)No more CM until we have sold sissoko....please.

5)Set the team out to attack ...... is that too much to ask ? The football we play is seriously boring.

6)Clear out Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch in the summer and bring in goalscoring strikers.....as goals will eventually win u the game and not just keeping clean sheets.

Like i said....i don't want rafa to go....but if he doesn't adapt...he will eventually go.

[112-1077774096]

good post rock, just one point i want to pick up on (and stu mentioned this a few days ago), but i think pennant is a good winger and i think his balls into the box are good, its just there is nobody there to convert them. (i used to argue when commentators would cream about beckhams crosses being awesome even though there was nobody on the end of them, i used to say thats not awesome just flinging the ball into the box, surely a good cross would be to a player or else its just a nothing ball, but now i can see their point, they are good balls but sadly they are good balls to the likes of kuyt or crouch, neither of whom can head the ball, in fact we got rid of our best header in garcia, the smallest bloke we had and the best header we had)

[The_Rock]

good post rock, just one point i want to pick up on (and stu mentioned this a few days ago), but i think pennant is a good winger and i think his balls into the box are good, its just there is nobody there to convert them. (i used to argue when commentators would cream about beckhams crosses being awesome even though there was nobody on the end of them, i used to say thats not awesome just flinging the ball into the box, surely a good cross would be to a player or else its just a nothing ball, but now i can see their point, they are good balls but sadly they are good balls to the likes of kuyt or crouch, neither of whom can head the ball, in fact we got rid of our best header in garcia, the smallest bloke we had and the best header we had)

Pennant is a good winger...I rated him as rafa's best signing last season.....

But to be brutally honest, if we are to win this league we have to get someone better than him. His crossing is very one-dimentional (he just floats in the ball....doesn't vary it) and at the moment the opposition defenders know how to deal with it as they can anticipate it. He also offers very little goal threat.

But only get-rid of pennant once we have a good CB, a great LW, a good striker to partner torres......

[ConnO'var]

We won't win the league with rafa thats for sure..

If we get knocked out of champions league......

its good bye rafa.

Apart from torres, he hasn't bought well this season.... He buys babel for not sure what reason...he gets levia when we need a LW or a CB.....

And today, rafa should have told the players to strike the ball from distance as robinson isn't comfortable with long range shorts... But did the players do this ? I mean every team which played spurs shot a lot from outside the penalty box...

But rafa for some reason set out the team not to do that ? What a great tactician rafa is......

Seriously questioning rafa here...   

This is like houllier's 4th season.....

I like to finish by adding, i am a liverpool supporter not a rafa supporter (unlike some ppl here)...

hey rock...

ive defender rafa from day one,  but honestly ive had enough of whats going on at the moment...

i dont say this with any thrills but rafa has struggled the minute paco left...

rafa has the world on his shoulders right now...

alonso and agger, have been a big miss for us,  but that isnt the real problem...

its rafa,  ive just lost total faith in him, at this moment in time,  i dont say that with any happyness...

rafa your job is on the line right now, and you better believe that...   

I understand your stand....... because i am in the same boat. I was a huge supporter of rafa and he will always be a legend for winning no 5 (as will houllier for the 2001 treble) but there comes a time when u have to sit back and take an overview of whats happening....

Fact
1)He hasn't really bought players who would bring us to the next level.... Don't get me wrong  Torres, Agger, Reina, Alonso, Mascherano have improved the team...but what about rest of his purchases ? Kuyt, Voronin, Babel, Auerlio, Gonzales, Morientes, Sissoko, Crouch..Do u think Arsenal, Manure and chelsea will have these players in their team let alone the starting line-up ? He hasn't improved the LW since houllier's time. He hasn't improved our RB (finnan is 32)....He hasn't bought back-up for carra (agger is replacement for hyppia).

2)He simply doesn't buy players suited to the english league. Pace is very important here. Look at the arsenal team. The whole team is filled with pace players...Look at Manure. But rafa buys players more for their "jack of all trades ...master of none" trait than anything else. This is his 4th season....How many pace players we have here ? Torres, Babel...... thats about it.

3)The Big "R"....... Rafa must think he is in a twilight zone or something...where only he is right and others are seriously "wacko jacko"

a)The ex-players all hate rotation...None of them speak fondly about it...think about it....They are ex-LFC players. They care about the club. They played for the club. They won trophies for the club. So when i raise the same comment they have...some ppl here call me fickle and ask me to feck off....... (esp when they support a spanish club and LFC is just their "2nd" favourite) 

b)The football writers hate it....Well i don't usually give a sh1t about what they think..but you have to be amazed why universally they condemn it.....

c)The fans hate it......Just go anywhere in the world and ask LFC fans....be it in england, states, asia, other parts of europe, africa...juz ask them about what they think of the rotation.... you get the same answers. The team does not look cohesive. The players play like individuals not as a team....are more of the common ones.....

d)Even the liverpool players under rafa hate it....I am sure you have read about current players talking to the media about the big "R"....

The thing is...only rafa (and some members here) seem to support the BIG "R"......You have to wonder why others oppose it...

4)Look at how quiet the anfield crowd has become....We used to have the most passionate fans .... so what has happened ? Could it be because of those unpassionate OOTs....? Could it be because the pies they serve at anfield is so damn delicious ?

Or maybe its just because the team is so damn boring....that our style of play doesn't interest the crowd anymore ? Is it just me or have we become the most boring big team in the EPL ? Rafa doesn't buy talented players who can great goals out of nothing.....he buys robots who can fit into his system.... Does it then sit well with the new stadium coming up ? Will we be able to fill the stadium with a "bolton-style" football ?

I could go on and on...and get fired from my work (i am writing this from my office)....but i think i will better stop here....

I like to point out that i don't want rafa to be sacked ...... I just want him to adapt to EPL..Thats it.

To adapt he has to :

1)Stick to playing the strongest team possible (i am not saying the same team) and play it for the next 6 or 7 games. I know the line-up against spurs was strong...but how many changes were made from the champ league match ? That is the problem.. He makes too many changes until players do not understand each other during the game or that the players don't give a damn. (Just imagine crouch.... he could score a hatrick against marseille and still won't be in the match-day squad against spurs...do u think he will play 100 % ?)

2)For god sake, get a LW (or a RW) who is fast, can dribble and score goals in the JAN window... Not sure if at all kewell is gonna come back.....don't like riise as a LW (think i don't have to mention about babel and leto)...

3)Get someone who is quick and can backup carra. Lets not kid ourselves..carra isn't getting young. We should get someone to understudy and eventually replace him.

4)No more CM until we have sold sissoko....please.

5)Set the team out to attack ...... is that too much to ask ? The football we play is seriously boring.

6)Clear out Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch in the summer and bring in goalscoring strikers.....as goals will eventually win u the game and not just keeping clean sheets.

Like i said....i don't want rafa to go....but if he doesn't adapt...he will eventually go.

Very good post.

Agree with most the points you raised.... However, I differ in opinion to one of your statements.

"....i don't want rafa to go....but if he doesn't adapt...he will eventually go."

I don't want to pussy-foot around the issue... I've said it before and I'll say it again....

I'm not a fan of Rafa and his methods. I cannot stomach the way we play these days and it pains me to see us struggling against the lesser lights when I feel we can do so much better with the talent we have.

I, personally, don't want Rafa at the helm of LFC.

But I don't think it is prudent for us as a club to let him go now. We'll lose too much time... time we can ill afford to lose.

[Ciggy]

We where sh.ite last season though and Pako was here.

[tubby]

Unbeaten and 4th and his job's on the line...

That might have been good enough for Rafas first or even second year but not now. We should be at the very least 2nd on tie with Arsenal if not first.

I can only hope that Arsenal begin to drop points starting when they come to Anfield in a few weeks.

[account deleted by request]

I agree we can't afford to sack Rafa even if we wanted to, which I don't. A new manager would want/need time and money, no doubt some of our better players would decide to move on as well rather than wait around for another few years while a new squad is built. More importantly who could we get thats better than Rafa.

I think we should just sit tight, and hope this is just a blip rather than the first signs of collapse. We have got good players, their form and confidence will return given time and our support. I just hope Rafa eases back on the rotation for a while, because its just being used as a big stick to hit him with.

We got six points from our last 4 games in which we should have got 10 or 12 points, but its the next 4 that will prove key. Get 10 points from them and we are back in it, another 6 point haul could well see our title challenge over.