Heinze anyone? - move to liverpool turned down

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby lio » Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:15 am

'MANCHESTER UNITED defender Gabriel Heinze is ready to go to court to ensure his dream move to Liverpool goes through.' ... (see here .. Mirror)

Fukguson and his senior players have urged the Argentinian to move abroad — to Real Madrid or Juventus.
These :censored: scums only think of their selfish selves but not the future or feelings of Heinze which he believes that LFC can satisfied him.
Urging the Argentnian away from Liverpool only shows how shallow the characters of the present scum establishment. But if this reported twist of event ie Heinze's ready to go to see the judge is true .. that's how serious he is to come to us.
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Postby Paul C » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:29 am

Manchester United Chief executive David Gill has confirmed that the club have turned down an official bid for left back Gabriel Heinze.

Gill said: "On Monday night we received a written offer and we've rejected that. It was a significant offer. But we rejected it because it's Liverpool. We wouldn't sell a player to Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea.

"We've relayed that to the agent in no uncertain terms. I couldn't have been clearer. If the club were still a plc it might be different, but we don't have some of those pressures now."

This news could mean that Real Madrid might make their move for Heinze after it was confirmed the player could be sold.
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Postby Dundalk » Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:14 pm

Gabriel Heinze looks to be on his way out of Manchester United. But he won't be going to Liverpool. Gabriele Marcotti wonders why

THEATRE FOLK call it "breaking character". It's the shattering of an illusion, rather like when, as an eight-year-old, you might have run into the goody and the villain amicably having a G&T at the bar after a Christmas panto. Or perhaps discovering that the guy you thought was Father Christmas is actually your dad, and, no, he doesn't even bother dressing up in the suit.

The footballing equivalent occurs when supposed rivals sit down and do business together. We like to think that our heroes on the pitch feel about opposing teams pretty much the way we do. There are some opponents we harbour a secret admiration for, some opponents for whom we don't care either way and some opponents who we just plain hate.

As a rivalry, Liverpool and Manchester United falls into the latter category. And it's rivalry which goes beyond the two managers. After all you would imagine that Arsene Wenger would be further down Sir Alex's Christmas card list than Rafa Benitez and that if the Spaniard had to describe his least favourite colleague, his sights would turn to Stamford Bridge rather than Old Trafford.
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Yet while there is no animosity between the two bosses, the long-standing grudge match between England's two most successful clubs infects everyone, whether it's Liverpool fans stoning Alan Smith's ambulance or Gary Neville candidly announcing that he doesn't like Scousers.

Sir Alex understands those sentiments which is why, on Thursday, he categorically vetoed Gabriel Heinze's move to Anfield. "We have received a written offer from Liverpool for Heinze and we have rejected it because it's Liverpool. We wouldn't sell to Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea and we have relayed that to the agent. We have told him that in no uncertain terms," said United's chief executive, David Gill, who added that it would be a different matter if an offer came in from abroad.

When news of the veto reached Rafa Benitez, he was somewhat perplexed. Attitudes over such matters vary greatly on the continent. In his native Spain, of course, Barcelona and Real Madrid do not enjoy doing business with each other. True, the likes of Bernd Schuster (now, ironically, in charge at the Bernabeu), Michael Laudrup, Luis Milla and, most notoriously, Luis Figo moved from Barca to Real, while Luis Enrique went in the opposite direction. And just last month, Javier Saviola swapped the Camp Nou for the Bernabeu.

But in each of those transfers, the selling club had little control over the move, either because it was a Bosman or because a release clause was involved. The one exception was Samuel Eto'o. When he joined Barcelona in 2004, after five years on loan at Mallorca, he was part-owned by Real Madrid. In one of the most bone-headed moves in history, Real, after much discussion, opted to let him go, believing he "wasn't needed".

But, according to a source close to the Liverpool manager, Benitez genuinely believed there was a chance to do business with United. Part of it had to do with the fact that, in real terms, United and Liverpool isn't exactly a rivalry of equals in the way that Barcelona and Real is. After all, in the past 15 years, United have finished in the top two 12 times, Liverpool have done it once. But part of it had to do with the fact that Benitez saw it as the kind of deal which would genuinely help both clubs.

In Italy, such moves are far from rare. No fewer than four Champions League-winning Milan players, including Andrea Pirlo and Clarence Seedorf, came directly from crosstown rivals Inter in various swap deals. In fact, a few years ago, Benitez himself spoke admiringly of these cases as evidence that while rivaly on the pitch is important, if there is a deal to be done, there is no point in cutting off your nose to spite your face.

In fact, some of the Milan clubs' "mutually beneficial deals" are somewhat suspect and, indeed, the Italian FA have opened an enquiry. Between 2003 and 2005, the two clubs regularly "swapped" no fewer than eight players (mostly obscure ones who would then get shipped off on loan to the nether divisions) in what allegedly amounted to "creative accounting". The "trick" allegedly worked like this: Milan would sell players like goalkeeper Simone Brunelli (who has made a total of zero professional appearances in his six-year career to Inter for £2 million. At the same time, Inter would sell a guy like midfielder Matteo Deinite to Milan for £2m. No money would actually change hands and both players would then be loaned out to lower division clubs. But, on the balance sheet, it made sense. Both players would be signed to five-year deals, allowing the clubs to amortise the expense, which meant that, in that year's accounts, they would show up as a £400,000 debit.

Meanwhile, the transfer fee itself would be included straight away, as a £2m credit. And - presto! - with the stroke of a pen and a few contracts, both clubs would make a "paper profit" of £1.6m without actually spending a penny. The following year they could always sell both players back to each other, perhaps this time for £3m and the house of cards would continue to grow.

But back to Heinze. Obviously his move would not fall into this category. And you can see just why Benitez felt it would be mutually beneficial. United have spent close to £50m on Nani, Anderson and Owen Hargreaves. And, if and when the Carlos Tevez move goes through, that figure will rise to somewhere between £70m and £80m. The Glazers would like to see that figure clawed back to close to £50m. Selling Kieran Richardson to Sunderland brought in £5.5m, another £10m could be raised by off-loading two out of Alan Smith, Darren Fletcher, Mickael Silvestre and Giuseppe Rossi. That would still leave them short of the target, which is why Liverpool felt the £6m to £7m that Gabriel Heinze would have fetched would have seemed attractive.

Heinze is not the player he was in his first season at Old Trafford. At 29, he isn't getting any younger and, after missing most of the 2005-06 campaign through injury, he is now the second-choice left back behind Patrice Evra. Given that Silvestre and John O'Shea are adequate alternatives, one would have thought that the Argentine might have been expendable. While players who move to rival clubs often become hate figures (just ask Figo or Sol Campbell or, closer to home, Mo Johnston), Heinze isn't exactly Gary Neville in terms of being "United through and through".

From Liverpool's perspective it certainly made sense. Heinze knows the Premiership well, he can provide cover in central defence as well and, crucially, when he plays at left back, he does so with a defender's mentality, which is something Benitez values - as evidenced by the fact that, in key matches, he moved the marauding John Arne Riise into midfield and played the right-footed Alvaro Arbeloa on the left of his back four.

And yet, if Gill and Sir Alex are to be believed, this is one deal that won't happen. No matter how much sense it might make for both teams, nobody wants to "break character".
Last edited by Dundalk on Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Paul C » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:46 pm

What a muppet that Marcotti guy is, saying Liverpool aren't exactly rivals for the Premiership :angry:
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Postby tubby » Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:56 pm

Paul C wrote:What a muppet that Marcotti guy is, saying Liverpool aren't exactly rivals for the Premiership :angry:

Yeah hes a :censored: muppet indeed. I remember in 2005 before the Juve game he was like "Juve will be too strong for them both home and away"

he said some similar :censored: for the final aswell but again that got shoved down his throat.

Hes a general knob head. The only Itallian Journalist i like is James Richardson and hes not even Italian  :p
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Postby Paul C » Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:16 pm

bavlondon wrote:
Paul C wrote:What a muppet that Marcotti guy is, saying Liverpool aren't exactly rivals for the Premiership :angry:

Yeah hes a :censored: muppet indeed. I remember in 2005 before the Juve game he was like "Juve will be too strong for them both home and away"

he said some similar :censored: for the final aswell but again that got shoved down his throat.

Hes a general knob head. The only Itallian Journalist i like is James Richardson and hes not even Italian  :p

He's not even Italian, he's a stupid yank who obviously from his name has Italian relatives, b3llend!!  :no

I'd love us to push United all the way for the league just to prove to the journos/pundits wrong.

Come on lads lets show these a5seholes what us reds know....... We are a great team and Rafa's a great manager!!!  :bowdown

Regards Heinze, I'd like to see the lad at Anfield for the right price cos he's got the experience we need, just as long as he can produce the for from his first season in the prem, he obviously wants to join us from whats been said in the press, but I'd like to see something in quotes, the most interesting thing is does he want to join us enough to fight for the move and make United let him come to Anfield, or is he just going to take the easy route and go abroad, I guess we'll find out soon  :;):
Last edited by Paul C on Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:43 pm

i think rafa has played a blinder here to be honest.

he spoke to heinze's agent and found out the price, put a bid in knowing full well that the scum have said he can leave (and put it in writing), with rafa knowing full well red nose would reject it as it is us, what rafa has done is cause some instabillity in the scum camp, we didnt even go back with a better offer as we dont need to, rafa has completed his aim in unsettling the player and the club and now heinze is taking the scum to court.

i know i question rafas tactics sometimes but he has got this spot on
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Postby tubby » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:46 pm

Paul C wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
Paul C wrote:What a muppet that Marcotti guy is, saying Liverpool aren't exactly rivals for the Premiership :angry:

Yeah hes a :censored: muppet indeed. I remember in 2005 before the Juve game he was like "Juve will be too strong for them both home and away"

he said some similar :censored: for the final aswell but again that got shoved down his throat.

Hes a general knob head. The only Itallian Journalist i like is James Richardson and hes not even Italian  :p

He's not even Italian, he's a stupid yank who obviously from his name has Italian relatives, b3llend!!  :no

I'd love us to push United all the way for the league just to prove to the journos/pundits wrong.

Come on lads lets show these a5seholes what us reds know....... We are a great team and Rafa's a great manager!!!  :bowdown

Regards Heinze, I'd like to see the lad at Anfield for the right price cos he's got the experience we need, just as long as he can produce the for from his first season in the prem, he obviously wants to join us from whats been said in the press, but I'd like to see something in quotes, the most interesting thing is does he want to join us enough to fight for the move and make United let him come to Anfield, or is he just going to take the easy route and go abroad, I guess we'll find out soon  :;):

Who you calling bellend, bellend
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Postby skatesy » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:51 pm

I just like the fact that one of the Man Utd's top defenders who won the title last year is wanting, so badly, to move to Liverpool  :D
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Postby tubby » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:09 pm

I dont think hes waiting especially for us. Im sure he would as easily move to Madrid if an offer came in from them.
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Postby Paul C » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:34 pm

bavlondon wrote:
Paul C wrote:
bavlondon wrote:
Paul C wrote:What a muppet that Marcotti guy is, saying Liverpool aren't exactly rivals for the Premiership :angry:

Yeah hes a :censored: muppet indeed. I remember in 2005 before the Juve game he was like "Juve will be too strong for them both home and away"

he said some similar :censored: for the final aswell but again that got shoved down his throat.

Hes a general knob head. The only Itallian Journalist i like is James Richardson and hes not even Italian  :p

He's not even Italian, he's a stupid yank who obviously from his name has Italian relatives, b3llend!!  :no

I'd love us to push United all the way for the league just to prove to the journos/pundits wrong.

Come on lads lets show these a5seholes what us reds know....... We are a great team and Rafa's a great manager!!!  :bowdown

Regards Heinze, I'd like to see the lad at Anfield for the right price cos he's got the experience we need, just as long as he can produce the for from his first season in the prem, he obviously wants to join us from whats been said in the press, but I'd like to see something in quotes, the most interesting thing is does he want to join us enough to fight for the move and make United let him come to Anfield, or is he just going to take the easy route and go abroad, I guess we'll find out soon  :;):

Who you calling bellend, bellend

Marcotti, get off your high horse  :;):
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Postby tubby » Sun Jul 22, 2007 7:02 pm

Ah right lol I see. :D
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Postby Paul C » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:45 pm

bavlondon wrote:Ah right lol I see. :D

lol  :no  :D  :p
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Postby Leonmc0708 » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:00 pm

People need to ask themselves some serious questions in this thread:

1) Would the player improve on what we have
2) Would the price be appropriate for someone of the players pedigree
3) Is the player capable of covering in other areas of the team

The answer is YES, YES and YES.

Where he comes from is irrelevant.

And the childish nature of remarks like Fergies reject are embarrasing.
JUSTICE FOR THE 96

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Postby Emerald Red » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:00 am

Well, I admit I'm biased. I don't want to see him play for us, and it doesn't really matter to me if he can do the job or not. I'd prefere Rafa to go spend that kind of money on a younger player with more potential.

Having said that, it's well known Fergie is prone to making astronomical blunders when it comes to letting players go from his club. VanNistelrooy is a good example. Would I have taken him from United? In a heartbeat. But that's a player at the business end of the pitch. I never really rated Heinze when he was at United, and I'm not going to be a hypocrite and be all happy and supportive if he comes here. I'd prefere he didn't.
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