Liverpool FC Forum

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:35 am

I think it makes a hell of a difference, Owen wanted to leave - we had no option, and Fowler was past it when he returned. The point being that Houllier was lucky enough to have both when they were at their peak, it would be like saying give Rafa Rush or Dalglish now and questioning why he isn't winning titles each year.

The initial point was about him believing Houllier's side of three years gone to be better than Rafa's, in order to make the point you have to look at the talent that came through the youth system and Houllier was blessed with Fowler and Owen. I'm saying, if you gave Rafa the Owen of 01/02 or Fowler of 00/01 then I reckon he would have achieved significantly more given that we have been lacking a natural goalscorer for a while. To do what he has done without one at their peak, in the climate of having no more than £10m to spend then I consider the progress under him to be greater than that of Houllier. Maybe now we have Torres, he may just have found a top striker.

by **David Villa** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:44 am

When Rafa first came to Liverpool he had already paid £14 million for a player he didnt even want in Ciise, just think if he had that £14 million he wouldnt of had to buy rubbish players like Josemi would he.

by **redtrader74** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:46 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:I did not incorrectly say Baros was in the treble winning side, you assumed I was referring to the treble winning side - which I was not. I was comparing strikers in recent times, without Fowler or Owen as they came through the youth team.

Of the strikers who both managers have brough in, Rafa has made the better acquisitions. Kuyt and Crouch are probably Rafa's best striker signings yet - excluding Torres as he's not yet played. While Houllier signed Baros and Heskey, even Litmanen, Riedle and Cisse don't compare to the strikers Rafa has brought in. That is the comparison I was making.

Like I said you can NOT compare Owen or Fowler with Rafa;s strikers as they came through the youth setup and Houllier was lucky enough to have them at his disposal, he did not buy those players therefore it does not demonstrate his ability to spot talent.

Yet another inncorrect statement from a so called Liverpool fan. Karl Heinze Reidle was a signing made by Roy Evans. Do I need to educate you on anything else?

As for Houiller having Owen and Fowler at his disposal and Rafa didn't, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it Rafa who sold Owen? So if he had kept hold of him wouldn't he have had Owen at his disposal? Didn't Rafa bring Fowler back, so didn't Rafa have Fowler at his disposal to? I must obviously be dreaming.

Its in this post where its made clear that rafa also had Fowler and Owen. The argument being that they did not have the same players in terms of quality, both the players were not at the same level when Rafa had them, Physically for Robbie, mentally for Owen, for the 2 months Rafa had him in preseason! Keep Owen? He wanted to go. Its all irrelevant to this thread anyway, but a silly point nonetheless.

by **112-1077774096** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:52 am

David Villa wrote:When Rafa first came to Liverpool he had already paid £14 million for a player he didnt even want in Ciise, just think if he had that £14 million he wouldnt of had to buy rubbish players like Josemi would he.

but he did buy josemi, so if josemi was so bad then what was the point in buying him.

same as nunez, same as pelagrino, same as gonzalez, oh rafa has bought some turkeys in his time guys (or are we back to the old 'rafa can do no wrong' because we have made a few signings).

lets remember these players have to perform yet, and like i always say it doesnt matter who we sign if he keeps dropping them or playing them out of position or plays defensive football. lets hope rafa has a more attacking strategy this season

by **stmichael** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:55 am

RichardLFC1 wrote:A while ago we had a thread on the resignation of Rafael Benitez in which i was involved in a debate. I said that i wouldnt mind Rafa going because of many reasons well i was wrong.

The time this was all going on it was a few weeks after the Premierleague had finished and Transfers were going on. I was very Frusturated about there not being any World class players being Linked with Liverpool and i wasnt happy. I called for Rafas head because of this and also i said about Rafa losing us the champions league. Again i was wrong and i appologise.

As ive wittnessed Rafael Benitez is an Excellent coach and is very cheeky when it comes to transfers. He has now signed up Torres Babel and Benayoun which i consider to be great players. Also were being linked with Gabriel Heinze which is great news for us and although nothing has been said on Rafas part about this Transfer you know that he keeps very quite about his transfers

Once again i appologise for the comments i made about Rafa

fair play mate.

just think it could be worse. you could be lakes10. he was calling for rafa's head two years ago.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:58 am

I don't think anyone is advocating 'Rafa can do no wrong', that's an extremist argument used by the 'In Rafa we distrust gang' to have a go at the 'In Rafa we have a reasonable amount of faith gang' :laugh:

Every manager makes bad signings, he made a few who he thought would succeed on a low budget, he knew La Liga well and thought Josemi would do the job and for a short while he did.

Houllier bought just as many turkeys, but feck more expensive turkeys. Rednose has done the same, as has Wenger......

by **redtrader74** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:46 pm

peewee wrote:
David Villa wrote:When Rafa first came to Liverpool he had already paid £14 million for a player he didnt even want in Ciise, just think if he had that £14 million he wouldnt of had to buy rubbish players like Josemi would he.

but he did buy josemi, so if josemi was so bad then what was the point in buying him.

same as nunez, same as pelagrino, same as gonzalez, oh rafa has bought some turkeys in his time guys (or are we back to the old 'rafa can do no wrong' because we have made a few signings).

lets remember these players have to perform yet, and like i always say it doesnt matter who we sign if he keeps dropping them or playing them out of position or plays defensive football. lets hope rafa has a more attacking strategy this season

Every manager makes poor buys, Rafa is no better or worse in that department compared to his peers, thats not to mean they are poor players, just poor for your team, or league, or out of form whilst at your club. Veron, Morientes, Forlan for example have gone on to perform at their new clubs. Even Gonzales will find his club and perform, just wait a year and see.

Where i believe his strength lies is that he does not persist, he gets rid quickly, and in real terms has not cost the club money, more often than not we have recouped our outlay on non performing players. This is not to say 'Rafa is perfect' btw. Although it is easier to be in the 'Lets kick Rafa for every tiny indiscretion' clan.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:17 pm

I think you could actually be closer to the mark by saying "Players who did not settle", rather than those who were "poor signings."

Virtually all the percieved failures left after struggling to adapt. It's not a matter of ability.

Probably the only one who IS/has/always will be cr*p, even after moving on is Nunez, who was forced on us by those Charlatans Real Madrid.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:18 am

LFC2007 wrote:I don't think anyone is advocating 'Rafa can do no wrong', that's an extremist argument used by the 'In Rafa we distrust gang' to have a go at the 'In Rafa we have a reasonable amount of faith gang'

Every manager makes bad signings, he made a few who he thought would succeed on a low budget, he knew La Liga well and thought Josemi would do the job and for a short while he did.

Houllier bought just as many turkeys, but feck more expensive turkeys. Rednose has done the same, as has Wenger......

I don't recall Bill Shankly/Bob Paisley making 14 bad signings and they were here a lot longer than Rafa.

As for peewee's earlier point at why people are having a go at me, it's mainly becuase I simply proved Lando Griffin and LFC2007 wrong, on numerous occasions. And instead of saying fair enough, they decided to clutch at straws at make my posts sound like I was the one in thw wrong. As for the rest of you lads in here who have taken it upon yourselves to tell me what my posts meant, they are just unable to read.

If Rafa had £14 million he wouldn't of spent it on Josemi? Yeah pal, that's spot on, because Rafa didn't get 14 million, he's had near enough £100 million within 3 and bit years. Oh and by the way, he still brought in Josemi.

Peewee seems to be the only fella in here who understands what my points were. So maybe the rest of you boys should head off back to the library and get a book called "being able to read."

by **redtrader74** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:38 am

What you wrote was quite clear, maybe you never meant to write it that way. If that is the case a course of grammer may be handy as would a dickshunary.

by **Reg** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:49 am

god_bless_john_houlding wrote:quote]
I don't recall Bill Shankly/Bob Paisley making 14 bad signings and they were here a lot longer than Rafa.

Of course they did !!

The difference is that Shanks and Paisley generally did not buy for the first team. Lads were bought in and served their time in the reserves before being promoted. Bad buys therefore didnt make it through to the first team.......

Selective memory my friend... or is age catching up with you ?!

by **neil** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 12:52 am

god_bless_john_houlding
your stu the 'whiston massive' red are you not

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:46 am

no sorry to disappoint to you neil but my name is not stu, and fortunately i'm not from whiston. I'm from Toxeth which is a beautiful area of next years capital of culture, you may of heard of its called Liverpool, that's where the club all you glory hunters support play.

As for Shanks and Bob making bad buys I don't recall 14, and certainly not 14 within 3 years. At least you were correct in saying Bob and Shanks put players in the reserves. Bob Paisley done it with a fella named Ian Rush. Told Rush to be more greedy in front of goal. Told Rush he was bought to score goals and that's what Bob wanted Rush to do. So off Rush went for 2/3 years in the reserves and well the rest is history. So maybe alls we needed to do what put Erik Meijer in the reserves for a couple of years and we would of had an excellent finisher, ah well it's our loss our suppose

by **neil** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:52 am

I wasnt a glory hunter in 78 when I watched the scums Aurthur Albiston score at the death to beat us 2-1 in me 1st visit to Anfield ya cheeky fruit.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:01 am

fair enough neil, *ahem* glory hunter *ahem*

. But I wasn't claiming you personally as a glory hunter, it was merely a gerneralisation of the majority of folks on this site. I remember that match well you spoke of. There I was in the Kop, just left of the goal and back in the 70s we were hardly beaten at Anfield, so for those scummy bas.tards to beat us, just shocked the lot of us.

But one other point, just because you've followed us from 78 (possibly earlier) doesn't exclude you from being a glory hunter. The defination of glory hunter in my eyes is somebody who supports a club, based only on its successes and not for any love or passion for the club.

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