Liverpool FC Forum

by **RichardLFC1** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:06 pm

A while ago we had a thread on the resignation of Rafael Benitez in which i was involved in a debate. I said that i wouldnt mind Rafa going because of many reasons well i was wrong.

The time this was all going on it was a few weeks after the Premierleague had finished and Transfers were going on. I was very Frusturated about there not being any World class players being Linked with Liverpool and i wasnt happy. I called for Rafas head because of this and also i said about Rafa losing us the champions league. Again i was wrong and i appologise.

As ive wittnessed Rafael Benitez is an Excellent coach and is very cheeky when it comes to transfers. He has now signed up Torres Babel and Benayoun which i consider to be great players. Also were being linked with Gabriel Heinze which is great news for us and although nothing has been said on Rafas part about this Transfer you know that he keeps very quite about his transfers

Once again i appologise for the comments i made about Rafa

by **LFC2007** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:08 pm

Fair play lad

by **destro** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:22 pm

Takes a brave man to admit he was wrong, good on you.

by **shanks** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:25 pm

RichardLFC1 wrote:A while ago we had a thread on the resignation of Rafael Benitez in which i was involved in a debate. I said that i wouldnt mind Rafa going because of many reasons well i was wrong.

The time this was all going on it was a few weeks after the Premierleague had finished and Transfers were going on. I was very Frusturated about there not being any World class players being Linked with Liverpool and i wasnt happy. I called for Rafas head because of this and also i said about Rafa losing us the champions league. Again i was wrong and i appologise.

As ive wittnessed Rafael Benitez is an Excellent coach and is very cheeky when it comes to transfers. He has now signed up Torres Babel and Benayoun which i consider to be great players. Also were being linked with Gabriel Heinze which is great news for us and although nothing has been said on Rafas part about this Transfer you know that he keeps very quite about his transfers

Once again i appologise for the comments i made about Rafa

i think we were all Frustrated at the time mate but least you had the balls to appologise :;):

by **Feeney** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:57 pm

Football is an extremely hard thing to remain passive and objectional about at all times. I think i've been lucky in that my Dad is an Evertonian and any debate with him as such had to hold validity and reason for him to acknowledge it as he doesn't hae the LFC rose-tinted specs. Having that has given me a decent grounding when it comes to debating football and also looking from other people, and teams, point of view.

I can honestly say this pre-season have been one of the worst for me as it felt like an age before we made any significant move in the transfer market, and when we did (Torres), it was protracted beyond belief. Obviously now, i'm as happy as a pig in muck, with Babel for me being the jewel on the crown. As better people than me have said; "Good things come to those who wait". That statement has certainly rang true and while I think calling for Benitez's head is drastic, each person has thier own tolerance level and when it's hit, the roof blows!

Fair play on ya Rich for coming back and stating that you were wrong - but I for one am not going to tell you that you were wrong, you mearly vented your spleen - maybe hastily, but your opinion is your own and you said it at the time. You were braver for saying it (as I imagine the baclash would have been immense) than aplogising for it mate.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:15 am

I on many threads here have called for Rafa's head and not for his lack of action in the transfer market, more the opposite, I think Rafa has brought in too many bad buys. This year I think he has brought in good/world class players and although that has assured me slightly we are going forwards, it hasn't made me 100% confident.

I've called for Rafa's head for another reason this one being his choices and tactics in major finals. 2005 Istanbul-although we won he picked an unfit Harry Kewell and unless Steve Finnan had got injured Rafa wouldn't of changed to a 3-5-2. 2006 FA Cup final-again we won yet another unfit Harry Kewell was picked. 2007 Athens- it was obvious to everybody that Peter Crouch had to start, then at half time we were unfortunate to go in behind so we should of brought Crouch on then but no Rafa waits till 10 mins to go we're 2-0 down, what can Crouch do in that time? He caused more havoc in those 10 minutes than Kuyt did all game (and Kuyt got a goal from a Crouch knock down). So Rafa's decisions and tactics baffle me in major finals.

But the biggest reason I've been calling for Rafa's head is simply our league form. I was fortunate enough to grow up in the late 60s/early 70s. I saw us conquere England and Europe on a regular basis. Winning the league became a way of living for the players of Liverpool in those days, so I expect it's harder for me than most to accept we're not at that level anymore. But 3 years now Rafa has been here and we still haven't came close. With new investments this has got to be the year we at least mount a challenge and if we do, all my fears over Rafa will be completely erased. If we are still 15 or more points behind the eventual champions, Rafa has got to go for me.

On the other hand I would like to thank Rafa for bringing the European Cup back home to Anfield. Also I'd like to thank Rafa for signing Reina, Alonso and Agger. So obviously I have doubts about Rafa (even now despite 2005) but it is mainly because of what I grew up watching, whilst I stood on the KOP.

by **112-1077774096** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:25 am

its great we have now made the signings, now he has to get them performing and no more of this defensive sh!te and wholesale changes every week to the team, it doesnt matter who we have signed, nobody can score from the bench or the stands.

i am excited about next season, i just hope rafa has finally learnt from his mistakes and i look forward to some spankings next season and to us being in contention for the holy grail, the league

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:35 am

So who do you bring in if you sack Rafa??

He's building a team, in a climate that is very different any other manager we've had in the past - one with the millions of Abramovich. The league standard as a whole has improved since Houllier, it's probably the most difficult league to win in Europe. You can criticise him for his tactics in major finals all you like, but with hindsight it is very easy to do so and very easy to fail to appreciate the tactical precision which he has executed in most european games.

Do we sack him after next season if he's not up to it and start another era?

I would suggest that this seaosn will be very different and much improved anyway, if we are for example 10 points off the top at the end having been pushing for the top all season - I would not suggest we remove Rafa and bring in another manager.

I don't see any other manager in the world being able to come in and within a season or two win the league.

I'd rather be patient for AT LEAST this coming season and analyse the progress from then on.

People don't appreciate what this guy has done for our club, they cannot see how far we have come under him. In Europe especially, but in the league aswell, we're at a different level. The only real area you can find criticism for is in our away form, I believe this season with players more capable of playing away from home e.g. Torres and players with more desire and character, combined with the greater experience of the existing core - we will eradicate many of the deficiencies in our away form from last season.

.... and less rotation...obviously

by **Sabre** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:38 am

I don't think RichardLFC1 should apologise on the first place, he just defended a position about Rafa and he did it in a polite way. No need to apologise for being a passionate fan that react to circunstrances.

When the league starts,if Rafa wins the first 3 league games, it's just natural and predictable that a massive euphoria and expectations will come to the fans. If we draw two games and lose one, we'll then have lot of people frustrated and more than one questioning Rafa. So this reactions are normal and more after a lost final, so as long as a poster doesn't insult other posters, I don't think it's necessary to apologise for having an opinion.

by **RUSHIE#9** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:40 am

Fair play to ya, hopefully other reds that have been murmuring about getting rid of Rafa will have the same guts to admit that they may be wrong about him. It's an important season for him and the club coming up but at the moment he seems happy with the quality of player he's been able to sign and so do the majority of the fans.

Maybe the mystical powers of that goatee are starting to work already. :eyebrow

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:46 am

If we push for the title and end up 10 points behind I would be happy to see Rafa as our manager because it would of shown real progress, which is the very thing I want, progress.

As for who I'd bring in as manager, being a old feller who doesn't follow european football, I'm not sure who's good on the contienent so I'm staying at home. John Aldridge, Phil Thompson, Sammy Lee, Ian Callaghan and Steve McMahon as our backroom staff, all supporting manager Roy Evans.

. I grew up with Liverpool's great sides under Shanks, Bob and Smokin' Joe. Our bench was famous for it and our bootroom. I think we have lost some of that spirit and passion. So obviously I can't replace Rafa with a better manager as you would of gathered my backroom wasn't serious. But Rafa has to get the players playing well week in week out and also he has to get stability in the side.

I think we may have moved on from the end of the Houiller era but when we won the treble, I think that side was better than our 2005 success in Istanbul, and I'd even say bar 1/2 players our 2001 side (3 years into Houiller's reign) was better than our side last year (3 years into Rafa's reign)

I'd swap Westerveld for Reina and possibly Agger for Henchoz. I wouldn't bring Alonso in for Hamman because Stevie and Didi worked much better together than Stevie and Xabi do.

So my team combining 2001 and last year would be:
Reina-GK
Babbel-RB
Hyypia-CB
Agger-CB
Carragher-LB
Murphy-RM
Gerrard-CM
Hamman-CM
Berger-LM
Owen-CF
Fowler-CF
Subs: Westerveld, Finnan, Henchoz, Alonso, Crouch

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:01 am

Well take Fowler and Owen out, they were not buys on Houllier's part. Had Rafa had them at their peak, I'm sure we would have made more progress by now. So Houllier's strikers would be Baros and Heskey, to Rafa's Kuyt and Crouch. No contest. Murphy is average, Berger nothing special. Garcia more than matches either. Carragher largely came into being what he is under Rafa, Finnan similarly and would be in there too. Hamman was a good buy, but Alonso has more class and is a better player. Hyypia would be there, Riise would too. Carra is not a left back. Agger would be on the bench.

by **god_bless_john_houlding** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:09 am

Fair enough pal, your opinion, not going to argue with you over it. You say take Fowler and Owen out of the side, Gerrard and Carra have to come out of the side aswell then don't they? Also one little point, Baros wasn't in our treble winning side, so he wouldn't be the forward you'd put in instead, it would be Jari Litmanen.

by **LFC2007** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:14 am

Carra and Gerrard played under Houllier too, along with Owen and Fowler - talk about talent. If Rafa had anything like that striking talent in any of his three years (at their peak - Fowler was not) then I would suggest that we would have made a lot more progress. I wasn't comparing the treble winning side, I was comparing strikers. Litmanen was hardly prolific either.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:26 am

Only 4 players of gbjh's list were actually signed by Houllier.

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