Liverpool FC Forum

Penguins wrote:Momo is not such a player and pairing him up with any of Alonso or Mascherano will make our team way too defensive offering too little support to the attack.

And who do you think was paired with Alonso the season before last when Gerrard played on the right?  Did our attack suffer unduly?  No.  In fact, our final points tally in the league that season suggested we did quite alright with Momo in the centre of the park for the majority of our games. 

Penguins wrote:I never said he was the sole reason why we can't break down mediocre teams, but for a few reasons it doesn't help to have him in the lineup when his shortcomings are obvious and well known.

We already have a lack of quality attacking central mids/players that create and score goals in the squad.

Masch and Alonso, great as they may be are rather defensive and rarely goes on the offense scoring and creating chances.
And one of those 2 will play 80% of all the games next season at least. Fo me that makes it imperative that whoever plays with one of them is a player that is genuin quality going forward creating goals.

Momo is not such a player and pairing him up with any of Alonso or Mascherano will make our team way too defensive offering too little support to the attack.

As I rate Alonso and Masch as better and combined with the fact that having 2 CM who offers nothing going forward is not going to be a winning formula.

Gerrard and maybe Lucas are the only CMs who might bring an offensive threat to their game and I feel that 1 of our CM has to be able to do that. At least vs most teams.

LFC2007 wrote:

aCe' wrote:i know what i see and im not satisfied with what i see...
as a FAN, id like for us to have the best squad...best starting 11 in the league... but if we keep conducting business the way we are atm we are not going to get anywhere anytime soon...

you ask the same question in response to every post and i find it rather annoying tbh... "do u know better than rafa does?" and i know what ull say next..."point out the bit where i said that" ...

anyways all that i said i clearly pointed out that it was my opinion ...no facts and no rafa quotes...

if u honestly believe that we need 5 top class central midfielders to compete for the league then im sorry to break the news for u..but ur mistaken...

compare to the other clubs u pointed out..

MANUTD won the league with Scholes-Carrick-Fletcher?-Oshea?
Chelsea played 4 CMs last year and that was a huge mistake imo and prbably was what led to them losing the title ...they have 4 topclass central midfielder...but with their formation they can accomodate all 4 of them... backup ? L.Diarra and Mikel ?!
Arsenal ? dont get me started !

we have 4 or 5 top player (lucas is still unproven but seems like a very good prosepect)

to me, we can do without 1 of the 5..sissoko would have been the logical pick . limited abilities and seemingly 4th choice... doesnt look too good for him regardless of what rafa says...im sure we'll see quite a bit of him next season but let me ask you this...

dont you think that we would have been better off selling him and using the additional funds to target better players ?

As a FAN    someone who supports Real Madrid!

I'm mistaken that we don't need 5 midfielders to compete in England? The same reason why Chelsea are wrong to have 6 midfielders, the Mancs have 5 midfielders, the same reason why Arsenal have 6 midfielders?. Are they all wrong to have cover in the most demanding area of the pitch? Why have the mancs signed Hargreaves, Chelsea have signed Sidwell?

Leiva is hardly one of our top midfielders, he's a youngster, an inexperienced player who will in all likelhood not start games from the beginning. So that makes four, are four CM's too many for you?


It doesn't look too good for him no? Hence why he has been endorsed by Rafa, time and time again and he's just signed a new deal - course it looks real bad mate.

To your final question, I'll respond by saying this:

"DON'T YOU THINK RAFA KNOWS EXACTLY WHO WE NEED, EXACTLY WHO WE CAN AFFORD AND EXACTLY WHICH PLAYERS WE NEED TO KEEP?"

Would the possibility of selling Sissoko to generate funds not come through Rafa's mind? Who's to say we need the additional funds? Is Rafa not capable enough to understand who we need and who we don't need?

You're so far from reality it's a joke, it's as if you assume Rafa doesn't know whether we should have kept Sissoko or not. 

LFC2007 wrote:

aCe' wrote:i know what i see and im not satisfied with what i see...
as a FAN, id like for us to have the best squad...best starting 11 in the league... but if we keep conducting business the way we are atm we are not going to get anywhere anytime soon...

you ask the same question in response to every post and i find it rather annoying tbh... "do u know better than rafa does?" and i know what ull say next..."point out the bit where i said that" ...

anyways all that i said i clearly pointed out that it was my opinion ...no facts and no rafa quotes...

if u honestly believe that we need 5 top class central midfielders to compete for the league then im sorry to break the news for u..but ur mistaken...

compare to the other clubs u pointed out..

MANUTD won the league with Scholes-Carrick-Fletcher?-Oshea?
Chelsea played 4 CMs last year and that was a huge mistake imo and prbably was what led to them losing the title ...they have 4 topclass central midfielder...but with their formation they can accomodate all 4 of them... backup ? L.Diarra and Mikel ?!
Arsenal ? dont get me started !

we have 4 or 5 top player (lucas is still unproven but seems like a very good prosepect)

to me, we can do without 1 of the 5..sissoko would have been the logical pick . limited abilities and seemingly 4th choice... doesnt look too good for him regardless of what rafa says...im sure we'll see quite a bit of him next season but let me ask you this...

dont you think that we would have been better off selling him and using the additional funds to target better players ?

As a FAN    someone who supports Real Madrid!

I'm mistaken that we don't need 5 midfielders to compete in England? The same reason why Chelsea are wrong to have 6 midfielders, the Mancs have 5 midfielders, the same reason why Arsenal have 6 midfielders?. Are they all wrong to have cover in the most demanding area of the pitch? Why have the mancs signed Hargreaves, Chelsea have signed Sidwell?

Leiva is hardly one of our top midfielders, he's a youngster, an inexperienced player who will in all likelhood not start games from the beginning. So that makes four, are four CM's too many for you?


It doesn't look too good for him no? Hence why he has been endorsed by Rafa, time and time again and he's just signed a new deal - course it looks real bad mate.

To your final question, I'll respond by saying this:

"DON'T YOU THINK RAFA KNOWS EXACTLY WHO WE NEED, EXACTLY WHO WE CAN AFFORD AND EXACTLY WHICH PLAYERS WE NEED TO KEEP?"

Would the possibility of selling Sissoko to generate funds not come through Rafa's mind? Who's to say we need the additional funds? Is Rafa not capable enough to understand who we need and who we don't need?

You're so far from reality it's a joke, it's as if you assume Rafa doesn't know whether we should have kept Sissoko or not. 

u conduct urself like a baboon its not even funny !

about the whole fan thing i dont even want to go there again sick of all the craap u come up with ...

again .. u fail to repspond to the arguments and chose to play your 'my mom is english and my dad is and i was born in liverpool so your not a real fan and i am' nonesense !

doesnt mean that u know ur football better than i do so quit the condescending tone !

u say manutd have 5 midfields and chelsea 6 ? care to give names.... and im talking about last season no their signings for this season...

chelsea have 6 but play 4 of them... manutd have 4 , two of which wouldnt even make our bench ...but point is...they had 4 and oly 2 were top class... we have 3 (witout sissoko) reliable options which is 1 more than both arsenal and manutd had last season , right ?!

rafa said rafa did.... im not talking about rafa im talking about MY opinion... for all i care rafa could come out tomorrow and say sissoko is the best player in the world...would that mean that i as a liverpool fan have to agree with rafa's opinion ! give me a break !

i think you should start coming up with opinions of your own LFC because ur posts are getting a bit too one dimensional...all quoting rafa and stating that he knows more about the club and players than fans do... i was just giving my opinion

additional funds will do any club in he world good so get ur little head out of ur behind and start talking sense buddy !
i know that rafa signed momo for a reason, i know he rates him and i also know that to rafa, having momo meant more than getting the 10mill if he would have sold him... what are you trying to get to ?! thats rafa's opinion...and i have mine...they happen to be different opinions....get over it !

so far from reality ? haha...
why ? because i think our 4th option out of 5 in central midfield in not indispensable ?

aCe' wrote:about the whole fan thing i dont even want to go there again sick of all the craap u come up with ...

again .. u fail to repspond to the arguments and chose to play your 'my mom is english and my dad is and i was born in liverpool so your not a real fan and i am' nonesense !

doesnt mean that u know ur football better than i do so quit the condescending tone !

u say manutd have 5 midfields and chelsea 6 ? care to give names.... and im talking about last season no their signings for this season...

chelsea have 6 but play 4 of them... manutd have 4 , two of which wouldnt even make our bench ...but point is...they had 4 and oly 2 were top class... we have 3 (witout sissoko) reliable options which is 1 more than both arsenal and manutd had last season , right ?!

rafa said rafa did.... im not talking about rafa im talking about MY opinion... for all i care rafa could come out tomorrow and say sissoko is the best player in the world...would that mean that i as a liverpool fan have to agree with rafa's opinion ! give me a break !

i think you should start coming up with opinions of your own LFC because ur posts are getting a bit too one dimensional...all quoting rafa and stating that he knows more about the club and players than fans do... i was just giving my opinion

additional funds will do any club in he world good so get ur little head out of ur behind and start talking sense buddy !
i know that rafa signed momo for a reason, i know he rates him and i also know that to rafa, having momo meant more than getting the 10mill if he would have sold him... what are you trying to get to ?! thats rafa's opinion...and i have mine...they happen to be different opinions....get over it !

so far from reality ? haha...
why ? because i think our 4th option out of 5 in central midfield in not indispensable ?

The "fan thing", you support Real Madrid - by your own admission. You live in America, you know feck all about football or should I say "soccer" and you support Real Madrid - talk about being a commercial fan.

I have comprehensively answered every single point you make about Sissoko, that is called constructive analysis, not "nonsense".

Mancs: Carrick, Fletcher, Scholes, Giggs, O' Shea, Richardson.

All played in Central Midfield last season.

To add to that they have signed Hargreaves.

Chelsea: Makelele, Essien, Lampard, Mikel, Ballack, Diarra.

To ad to that, they now have Steve Sidwell, so that makes 7 midfielders.

Arsenal: Diaby, Fabregas, Rosicky, Hleb, Gilberto, Denilson.



Chelsea play different systems, they may play with four centre mid's in some games but they play with three in most and two wingers, that still leaves three as a back up - just like we have. They also have plenty of wingers.

The Mancs, they have Scholes, Giggs, Carrick who all played in central midfield last year. Three top class players,they also had O'shea, Fletcher and Richardson as back up.


We have Gerrard, Mascherano and Alonso -  most would agree that they are top class. We also have Sissoko, an excellent player with ability no-one else can provide in certain games. Leiva - a Brazilian youngster, injured and coming off the back of the Copa Libertadores - only a nutcase would see him as a player who is going to go straight into the team.

Sissoko has signed a new deal and Rafa (or for you I should say RAAAAFFFFFA) has re-iterated in the face of nutcases like yourself how important he is for the team, and our need for him as part of our future.

You avoid the reality of the situation because you get caught up in silly season, "we could spend more on other areas if we sold him" type of rubbish. Is it not conceivable that Rafa actually knows who we need to sign, who we need to keep and how much money we will have to achieve this? Is that not reasonable? Or do you just like the pontificating about how we could or should make "x" decision? Is it not remotely possible in your mind that Rafa may just know how much we have to spend and that selling Sissoko would not be to the benefit of his overall plan? Or do you think Rafa actually has no idea whether re-signing Sissoko was a good idea or not? When he keeps telling us what a bright prospect and excellent player he is, do you not just question whether that may be a reason for his new contract, or do you think he is doing it purely to placate him for the coming season?


There is absolutely no evidence that a fee received from Sissoko - whatever that fee may be - would help us in our transfer dealings. The yanks spent $125m on one baseball player in the states, they back their projects to succeed, is it not possible that they may just have enough to comprehensively fulfil Rafa's ambitions in the transfer market? Even if selling Sissoko meant an extra £10m, we may still be able to spend enough to improve the areas Rafa feels he needs to be improved. There is an assumption that Rafa definitely wants two top wingers and a striker. Only yesterday were we linked with Heinze - that could be the vaguest indication yet that Rafa intends to sign a left back and not sign a left mid. It could mean anything , we DO NOT KNOW.

The rest of your rant is just typical American jibberish.... gimme a break.... quit this talkin.....buddy...... rafa said rafa said..... Bart Simpson language that I'm not privvy to understand since Bad Bob never taught me it at school.

JoeTerp wrote:Its not that I hate Sissoko, I just feel it was a mistake to give him a contract extension which is pretty much saying to other clubs "hands off" for at least a year maybe two.  I was really hoping to sell him since there were rumors of clubs paying what I felt was over the odds on a player with a ton of weaknesses in order to increase the chances of getting Mancini, who would offer a lot more to the club especially given where our strengths and weaknesses lie.

LFC2007 wrote:

aCe' wrote:about the whole fan thing i dont even want to go there again sick of all the craap u come up with ...

again .. u fail to repspond to the arguments and chose to play your 'my mom is english and my dad is and i was born in liverpool so your not a real fan and i am' nonesense !

doesnt mean that u know ur football better than i do so quit the condescending tone !

u say manutd have 5 midfields and chelsea 6 ? care to give names.... and im talking about last season no their signings for this season...

chelsea have 6 but play 4 of them... manutd have 4 , two of which wouldnt even make our bench ...but point is...they had 4 and oly 2 were top class... we have 3 (witout sissoko) reliable options which is 1 more than both arsenal and manutd had last season , right ?!

rafa said rafa did.... im not talking about rafa im talking about MY opinion... for all i care rafa could come out tomorrow and say sissoko is the best player in the world...would that mean that i as a liverpool fan have to agree with rafa's opinion ! give me a break !

i think you should start coming up with opinions of your own LFC because ur posts are getting a bit too one dimensional...all quoting rafa and stating that he knows more about the club and players than fans do... i was just giving my opinion

additional funds will do any club in he world good so get ur little head out of ur behind and start talking sense buddy !
i know that rafa signed momo for a reason, i know he rates him and i also know that to rafa, having momo meant more than getting the 10mill if he would have sold him... what are you trying to get to ?! thats rafa's opinion...and i have mine...they happen to be different opinions....get over it !

so far from reality ? haha...
why ? because i think our 4th option out of 5 in central midfield in not indispensable ?

The "fan thing", you support Real Madrid - by your own admission. You live in America, you know feck all about football or should I say "soccer" and you support Real Madrid - talk about being a commercial fan.

I have comprehensively answered every single point you make about Sissoko, that is called constructive analysis, not "nonsense".

Mancs: Carrick, Fletcher, Scholes, Giggs, O' Shea, Richardson.

All played in Central Midfield last season.

To add to that they have signed Hargreaves.

Chelsea: Makelele, Essien, Lampard, Mikel, Ballack, Diarra.

To ad to that, they now have Steve Sidwell, so that makes 7 midfielders.

Arsenal: Diaby, Fabregas, Rosicky, Hleb, Gilberto, Denilson.



Chelsea play different systems, they may play with four centre mid's in some games but they play with three in most and two wingers, that still leaves three as a back up - just like we have. They also have plenty of wingers.

The Mancs, they have Scholes, Giggs, Carrick who all played in central midfield last year. Three top class players,they also had O'shea, Fletcher and Richardson as back up.


We have Gerrard, Mascherano and Alonso -  most would agree that they are top class. We also have Sissoko, an excellent player with ability no-one else can provide in certain games. Leiva - a Brazilian youngster, injured and coming off the back of the Copa Libertadores - only a nutcase would see him as a player who is going to go straight into the team.

Sissoko has signed a new deal and Rafa (or for you I should say RAAAAFFFFFA) has re-iterated in the face of nutcases like yourself how important he is for the team, and our need for him as part of our future.

You avoid the reality of the situation because you get caught up in silly season, "we could spend more on other areas if we sold him" type of rubbish. Is it not conceivable that Rafa actually knows who we need to sign, who we need to keep and how much money we will have to achieve this? Is that not reasonable? Or do you just like the pontificating about how we could or should make "x" decision? Is it not remotely possible in your mind that Rafa may just know how much we have to spend and that selling Sissoko would not be to the benefit of his overall plan? Or do you think Rafa actually has no idea whether re-signing Sissoko was a good idea or not? When he keeps telling us what a bright prospect and excellent player he is, do you not just question whether that may be a reason for his new contract, or do you think he is doing it purely to placate him for the coming season?


There is absolutely no evidence that a fee received from Sissoko - whatever that fee may be - would help us in our transfer dealings. The yanks spent $125m on one baseball player in the states, they back their projects to succeed, is it not possible that they may just have enough to comprehensively fulfil Rafa's ambitions in the transfer market? Even if selling Sissoko meant an extra £10m, we may still be able to spend enough to improve the areas Rafa feels he needs to be improved. There is an assumption that Rafa definitely wants two top wingers and a striker. Only yesterday were we linked with Heinze - that could be the vaguest indication yet that Rafa intends to sign a left back and not sign a left mid. It could mean anything , we DO NOT KNOW.

The rest of your rant is just typical American jibberish.... gimme a break.... quit this talkin.....buddy...... rafa said rafa said..... Bart Simpson language that I'm not privvy to understand since Bad Bob never taught me it at school.

aCe' wrote:was talking aboutcentral midfielder not players u play in that position because you dont have backup... thats the whole point... we do have backup and we also have other players who could fill up if 2 or 3 players playing the same position get injured at the same time... thats why you have reserve teams and 30man squads...

again... i agree rafa might have a different plan to all the craap im goin on and on about but that doesnt mean that what im saying is just bullsht just because the manager has different views... its a forum and that what u do here... u say what u think , how u think things should have been done... id rather read a newspaper than read ur 'but rafa said and rafa did' posts !

LFC2007 wrote:

aCe' wrote:was talking aboutcentral midfielder not players u play in that position because you dont have backup... thats the whole point... we do have backup and we also have other players who could fill up if 2 or 3 players playing the same position get injured at the same time... thats why you have reserve teams and 30man squads...

again... i agree rafa might have a different plan to all the craap im goin on and on about but that doesnt mean that what im saying is just bullsht just because the manager has different views... its a forum and that what u do here... u say what u think , how u think things should have been done... id rather read a newspaper than read ur 'but rafa said and rafa did' posts !

Giggs, Scholes, O'shea, Richardson, Fletcher and Carrick did play in that position.

Scholes, Carrick and Fletcher were their main players in central midfield. They had O'shea as backup. There is little difference with our situation. Gerrard, Alonso, Mascherano as our main players and Sissoko as backup - although I disagre that Sissoko is backup - he is more than capable of playing in the big games. Leiva is a youngster and injured at the moment, he would be the equivalent of a youth team player coming through, though with more of a reputation . He needs time to adapt, I would be amazed if he manages to start many - if any - premier league games in the opening 10 fixtures.

You'd rather read a newspapers, because that's where you draw your analysis from, unfounded rubbish written in tabloids as oppose to what the manager is telling us repeatedly. You'd rather trust the tabloids views over what Rafa tells us, hence why people are so shocked when he signs a new deal.

i would be amazed if lucas made many -or any- first team appearences in the first 10 games aswell !
... gerrard, mascherano AND alonso would all have to get injured or be rested at the same time for him to get the chance... we might aswell loan him out to manutd or chelsea he'd have a better chance of kicking a ball there   

on a serious note though.... we could have had lucas as backup with carragher or any of the youngster or even riise or aurelio filling up in the extreme cases of all 3 central midfielders being unavailable ! thats wat most clubs do afterall !

lets just drop the whole thing...staring to repeat the same sht now !

aCe' wrote:i would be amazed if lucas made many -or any- first team appearences in the first 10 games aswell !
... gerrard, mascherano AND alonso would all have to get injured or be rested at the same time for him to get the chance... we might aswell loan him out to manutd or chelsea he'd have a better chance of kicking a ball there   

on a serious note though.... we could have had lucas as backup with carragher or any of the youngster or even riise or aurelio filling up in the extreme cases of all 3 central midfielders being unavailable ! thats wat most clubs do afterall !

lets just drop the whole thing...staring to repeat the same sht now !

JoeTerp wrote:Lucas is not just some youngster foreign signing like all the rest. He was the best player in Brazil last season, and we paid 6.5 mill, and he is the under 20 captain.  He is only injured for 3 weeks and since I didn't see him getting a game early on anyway it shouldn't affect much.  I expect his first start should come in our first Carling Cup match.
If we end up not signing Mancini or a winger of his quality or better because we got priced out, wouldn't you have wished we sold Momo?  That would mean that Pennant could be our cover on the right, and Stevie G would be undroppable from one of the CM slots.  Even if just Mascherano and Alonso split games 50/50 that wouldn't be enough time for either one of them considering their class.

Although I think Gerrard is not maximizing his potential by playing behind the striker in a 4-5-1, Rafa might want to play it a lot, and then it would be good to keep Momo. And if we do have nearly unlimited funds and are able to get everyone that we need while keeping Momo, then nobody gets hurt.