Liverpool FC Forum

by **aCe'** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:08 pm

LFC2007 wrote:It's speculating on what will happen IF he leaves, I see the likelihood of him going as <5%, therefore I wouldn't comment on how it would affect us if he did.

its a discussion board... thread reads "WOULD we miss alonso ?"

its what we do here... speculate...

by **aCe'** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:10 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:If we sell one of our best midfielders in order to sign a new attacker, then who's going to provide the ball to the attacker in order for him to score?

gerrard....wingers... ?

who provides the passes for the mancs ?!

who does for arsenal ?

you dont need 2 central midfielders with worldclass passing abilities to build play and create chances !

by **Penguins** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:15 pm

I agree Ace´

Even if we have class in centre midfield our wingers are **** in comparison and much of the offense is supposed to come from there.

Isn't it better to have 2 wingers that are top class and 2 central midfielders that are top class than 4 central midfielders that are top class and wingers that are very average.

Only place for 2 central midfielders on the field so if the sale of 1 or 2 central mids would get us 2 top class wingers I say go for it cause it will make the team better.

by **Sabre** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:15 pm

If that new Leiva is good enough (and that's a big if), and the right wing is properly covered, and the left for that matter, Rafa won't have to use the best player of the squad to fix what we lack in this positions.

And Gerrard will have no contest to pick his CM position, with the other companion as a holding mid. Name it Alonso, Mascherano, or whoever player in the world you want. Gerrard has his place secured if the other areas are well covered.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:18 pm

gerrard....wingers... ?

who provides the passes for the mancs ?!

who does for arsenal ?

you dont need 2 central midfielders with worldclass passing abilities to build play and create chances !

We don't? Shouldn't a team have as many world class players as possible? What if one got injured and there was no cover?

Do we have wingers who are good enough? Because all I tend to see are "floated" balls lobbed forward.

by **aCe'** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:25 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:
gerrard....wingers... ?

who provides the passes for the mancs ?!

who does for arsenal ?

you dont need 2 central midfielders with worldclass passing abilities to build play and create chances !

We don't? Shouldn't a team have as many world class players as possible? What if one got injured and there was no cover?

Do we have wingers who are good enough? Because all I tend to see are "floated" balls lobbed forward.

no we dont....not a must if you havve capable players in the wings and a good strike partnership...
most if not all clubs dont have central midfielders with the passing abilities of alonso and gerrard...

alonos is worldclass ? big statement if you ask me !
our wingers are not good enough but thats a whole different discussion... assuming they were we wouldnt need the central midfielders creating EVERY chance for 90 mins 38 games a season...

i wont go into names but i think with one class left winger signed... we'd have a solid midfield four even if alonso leaves... a midfield with good wingers and good central midfielders... a complete midfield...

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:26 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:
gerrard....wingers... ?

who provides the passes for the mancs ?!

who does for arsenal ?

you dont need 2 central midfielders with worldclass passing abilities to build play and create chances !

We don't? Shouldn't a team have as many world class players as possible? What if one got injured and there was no cover?

Do we have wingers who are good enough? Because all I tend to see are "floated" balls lobbed forward.

Whats the point in having 4,5, or 6 world class midfield players if you have 2nd rate forwards. Surely it would be better to have your world class players distributed throughout the team.

by **The Manhattan Project** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:31 pm

Whats the point in having 4,5, or 6 world class midfield players if you have 2nd rate forwards. Surely it would be better to have your world class players distributed throughout the team.

We have that many world class midfielders? I'd pick only Gerrard and Alonso for sure and maybe Mascherano.

The rest, I'm not so sure about.

no we dont....not a must if you havve capable players in the wings and a good strike partnership...
most if not all clubs dont have central midfielders with the passing abilities of alonso and gerrard...

alonos is worldclass ? big statement if you ask me !
our wingers are not good enough but thats a whole different discussion... assuming they were we wouldnt need the central midfielders creating EVERY chance for 90 mins 38 games a season...

i wont go into names but i think with one class left winger signed... we'd have a solid midfield four even if alonso leaves... a midfield with good wingers and good central midfielders... a complete midfield...

True, if Alonso left and we got some great wingers to provide for the striker then it would be "Ok" I suppose. But it greatly depends on our ability to actually sign these wingers we speak of.

by **redtrader74** » Mon May 28, 2007 11:32 pm

Sabre wrote:
fabregas is a whole different story ! more comparable to a gerrard playing in the center with mascherano or deco in barcelona, even lampard for chelsea...

I agree Ace'. I don't use to with you as of late, but yes in this bit. Very different players. Fabregas is a not very strong, but skillful, decent dribbler, and last pass spotter player. And FWIW, he can pick some balls deep to carry them upfront. But definitely has not the role of a holding midfielder, IMHO.

Perhaps it's pointing just the obvious, but it's easier to make an assist when your natural position is between the two lines, and you visit opposition box outside often (Luis Garcia in our team, Gerrard as of late in the 451, Fabregas, Arteta) than making an assist from deep positions, that goes through the two opposition lines and is controlled by a striker. I don't see Cesc Fabregas making covers for their team mates often (to be honest a see few games of them).

Assists are good for commenting basketball and some positions. Stats are relative. All of them. The good passes stats usually puts the R and L backs as the players with most good passes. In the "lost balls" stats, strikers and attacking midfielders are the ones to lose most. Some stats are very related to the position. And certainly when he's asked to do a holding midfielder role, I wouldn't take into consideration the "assists" stat too much.

P.S. What do the stats say about Lampard. DO they say he's better than Gerrard? well, he isn't. IMHO.

Well for those here that judge solely by facts and figures and devalue Alonso's worth to the side in terms of goals /assists.
Here is the comparison of Lampard and Gerrard over the last 4 years in the league......
goals assists (fatboys are first)
7,7 10,4
14,4 13,7
9,6 16,10
10,7 11,7

Now i don't suppose you stats boys think that Fatboys better??

by **LFC2007** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:06 am

aCe' wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:It's speculating on what will happen IF he leaves, I see the likelihood of him going as <5%, therefore I wouldn't comment on how it would affect us if he did.

its a discussion board... thread reads "WOULD we miss alonso ?"

its what we do here... speculate...

I think he will be here, hence I won't speculate as to what would happen if he were not.

Speculate all you like, if the basis for that speuclation is hardly founded on much other than weak rumour, then I choose not to.

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:20 am

I don't think anyone can argue that Lampard is a more prolific scorer than Gerrard because he is also a more selfish player , try including how many more shots Lampard has to Gerrard.If you want to cream your pants over Alonso you also have to face facts AS WELL, apart from all the unnoticed stuff that only certain members of the forum are blessed with the ability to see, he has only made one assist all season, and in the view of most respected critics including Alan Hansen, Tommy Smith etc he has had a poor season. Then again wtf would they know, what have they ever won!

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue May 29, 2007 4:17 am

s@int wrote:I don't think anyone can argue that Lampard is a more prolific scorer than Gerrard because he is also a more selfish player , try including how many more shots Lampard has to Gerrard.If you want to cream your pants over Alonso you also have to face facts AS WELL, apart from all the unnoticed stuff that only certain members of the forum are blessed with the ability to see, he has only made one assist all season, and in the view of most respected critics including Alan Hansen, Tommy Smith etc he has had a poor season. Then again wtf would they know, what have they ever won!

The thing is, an "assist" means that player was the last pperson to pass the ball to the scorer.

Now try and find a stat which includes 2 or 3 passes before that.

I bet Alonso has at least 20.

He hasn't been deployed in an advanced position this term, and without the darting runs of Cisse/Baros, he's had no one to actually aim long passes to. Bellamy could have had 10 goals from Xabi this term had the little c*nt managed to judge a line and stay onside.

Kuyt hasn't been anywhere near the areas Xabi can reach from his holding position, Kewell has played, what? 60 minutes with Alonso this season? Garcia has been missing for large parts, too, and so most of Xabi's outlets for his "Hollywood" balls haven't been there.

It's all too simple to ignore the subtle, yet damning facts.

Alonso has been better than Gerrard this season - well done Ivor, for pointing that out.

He's been in our top 4, along with Carragher, Finnan and Reina.

But just because he hasn't been spectacular, all his good work goes unnoticed. How about his contribution to the clean sheets? What about his pivotal role in providing cover for those who DID make the assists?

"Small details", as Rafa points out, wins matches.

And one "Small detail" that people seem to neglect is that Xabi is a f*cking top-drawer player, and you do NOT sell said class of player to buy ANYONE ELSE.

And if that's not clear enough for people (And I don't mean you, S@int), here it is again, in a nutshell:

Anyone who thinks that selling Alonso would benefit the team, no matter WHO we signed as a replacement, or for what position, is a f*cking idiot.

There - discuss, cretins.

by **The_Rock** » Tue May 29, 2007 4:28 am

ivor_the_injun wrote:With a World Cup-free summer, he'll hopefully hit the ground running next season. If it's in a side other than ours, then I think that's a massive mistake.

Not a dig at alonso ....but he didn't play a lot of spain's matches in the world cup.

by **112-1077774096** » Tue May 29, 2007 4:29 am

here we go again, abuse because someone has different ideas to you. i think it would benefit the team, but hey what do i know, I am just a cretin and a f*cking idiot as far as you are concerned.

keegan was a top drawer player, we sold him and got a better player. throughout history top players have left and we still went on and won the leaue next season. this is where you aregument falls down.

argument over i think or do you want more examples of how selling a top drawer player can in fact improve you team as oppossed to weaken it.

notice i said "team" there, thats the important thing here, the good of the team, not for the good of xabi alonso the mystical player who can be cr@p most of the season but still get lauded by people on here

seriously the way some of you guys talk you would think we were talking about the best player in the world as oppossed to the guy who ran round athens fouling everyone, including the stupid foul that led to their first goal, and then capped his display by pinging a 30 yard ball to the front row of the stands in injury time.

just to make it clear, LFC is not xabi alonso, it never will be, and we have to get rid of him for the good of the club then so be it, i cant be bothered again explaing how it would be for the good of the club as the blinkered would just ignore it anyway.

its quite annoying how some people cant see any bad, its good to look positives guys, i am looking for the positives in getting rid of alonso, then we can stop living on a few great passes and a couple of goals from his own half.

if alonso want to be thought of as a great player, let him start acting like one, consistently, if he wants to mope around when he is dropped (and he was dropped for mash, no matter how anyone wants to dress it up) then he can f*ck of now and we will take the money.

by **66-1112520797** » Tue May 29, 2007 4:29 am

Calling your fellow Liverpool supporters 'cretins' because they dont agree with you that the sun hasnt shone out of his Alonso's @rse. And if a significant offer came in, the way of a part exchange or something then I think Rafa would have to take serious consideration about it.

Your a f.ucking idiot.

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