Liverpool FC Forum

by **The Manhattan Project** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:09 am

Sign a predatory striker and some hardmen and then attack, attack, attack the mid-level and :censored:

teams. We went to the Reebok and got beat. Man Utd went there and mullered Bolton. Attack those teams and they eventually crack.

by **puroresu** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:53 am

Againt the majority of teams in the league we have the better players so there is no reason why we shouldnt go into all these games with the same attitude which is "we want to win this game and score as many goals as possible". Going away from home and being cautious against sides where you have the better players makes no sense at all.

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:22 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:
hishhish wrote:I think people forget we faced very tough opposition in the begining of the season, which pretty much knocked the "train off the track" since then we have been trying to play catch up. That has been hard with very tough to break mid table teams eg, Bolton, Villa, Pompey.
In CL where we have been comfortable, we have been able to perform outstanding performances against Barca (x2) and against PSV when needed.
In fact I think that is why Rafa didn't mind too much being out of the FA and Carling. Just not worth the effort, as Jose is finding out!

So what you're saying is we played United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Bolton, Everton in a row away so that means we should lose in all of them?

MAYBE we might have accepted it had we been "unlucky" like against Chelsea when we done enough I felt to get a point but in the other games we got trounced. Absoloutely mauled by teams. We didn't even look average in most of those games. Infact all but one we were a disgrace, and we've been a disgrace to many times this season.

I'd hardly say we got mauled against Bolton and Everton away. In those two games we had approximately 40 attempts on goal. Bolton and Everton had six shots between them and scored five goals, thanks to a free kick that wasn't, a howler by Carragher and a howler from Reina. The only 2 away games where we've been anything other than the dominant force were the Manc and Arsenal games. Every other time we've dominated play and with better players than the opposition that should more often than not lead to results - not always victories but at least results.

The biggest problem is we're short of players that can really turn a game. At the moment I'd say Gerrard (although he isn't doing it this season at all) and Pennant, possibly Crouch - are the players most likely to turn a game on its head with a moment of brilliance. Garcia would be up there too if fit. Problem is the likes of Pennant and Garcia aren't guaranteed starters which on a very basic level leaves Gerrard. That isn't enough, and that's why we'll almost certainly be getting a new winger for the left and a new striker in the summer.

by **Owzat** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 1:41 pm

hishhish wrote:I think people forget we faced very tough opposition in the begining of the season, which pretty much knocked the "train off the track" since then we have been trying to play catch up.

No doubt it wasn't an easy start, I certainly hadn't forgotten since I pointed it out back then, BUT we didn't score once from open play and we're a top three side. And it isn't like we kept it tight against the bluesh1te or Arsenal, just failed to score.

Away blanks (9 Prem, 1 Other)

Everton
Chelsea
Bolton
Man Utd
Arsenal
Middlesboro
Blackburn
Aston Villa
Man City

PSV (CL Group Stage)

P10 W0 D3 L7

Home blanks (3 Prem, 1 Other)

Portsmouth
Everton
Man Utd

Barcelona

P4 W0 D3 L1

FOURTEEN blanks this season at around 1 every 3 games. While you might not expect to win or draw away from home, the best you can get from drawing a blank is a draw. None of the games we've drawn 0-0 have been against particulary strong come unbeatable opposition either. I wouldn't be too surprised if we draw against Boro

For comparison we've kept 25 clean sheets, that makes our scoring record even more disappointing as we've been so tight defensively but our failure to score has meant four draws in those fourteen games

by **Stu.Murph** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:32 pm

stmichael wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:
hishhish wrote:I think people forget we faced very tough opposition in the begining of the season, which pretty much knocked the "train off the track" since then we have been trying to play catch up. That has been hard with very tough to break mid table teams eg, Bolton, Villa, Pompey.
In CL where we have been comfortable, we have been able to perform outstanding performances against Barca (x2) and against PSV when needed.
In fact I think that is why Rafa didn't mind too much being out of the FA and Carling. Just not worth the effort, as Jose is finding out!

So what you're saying is we played United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Bolton, Everton in a row away so that means we should lose in all of them?

MAYBE we might have accepted it had we been "unlucky" like against Chelsea when we done enough I felt to get a point but in the other games we got trounced. Absoloutely mauled by teams. We didn't even look average in most of those games. Infact all but one we were a disgrace, and we've been a disgrace to many times this season.

I'd hardly say we got mauled against Bolton and Everton away. In those two games we had approximately 40 attempts on goal. Bolton and Everton had six shots between them and scored five goals, thanks to a free kick that wasn't, a howler by Carragher and a howler from Reina. The only 2 away games where we've been anything other than the dominant force were the Manc and Arsenal games. Every other time we've dominated play and with better players than the opposition that should more often than not lead to results - not always victories but at least results.

The biggest problem is we're short of players that can really turn a game. At the moment I'd say Gerrard (although he isn't doing it this season at all) and Pennant, possibly Crouch - are the players most likely to turn a game on its head with a moment of brilliance. Garcia would be up there too if fit. Problem is the likes of Pennant and Garcia aren't guaranteed starters which on a very basic level leaves Gerrard. That isn't enough, and that's why we'll almost certainly be getting a new winger for the left and a new striker in the summer.

How anyone can critisise Gerrard is absoloutely beyond me...

He's won so many games for us single handedly and he's a central midfielder for christs sake.

People slate him everytime he doesn't score or create? Why? I remember people saying he was average this season against Chelsea at home...

He was the best player on the pitch by an absoloute country mile, but because he didn't score/directly set a goal up people said he was average.

To be quite honest I've stopped listening to people talk about Gerrard because people either completely overate the lad, don't have a clue about his game, or just simply talk :censored:

about him. He's our best player. If you took him out of our team this season we'd probably be about 6th or 7th.

by **Sabre** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:35 pm

Stu, mates, everybody, I have a question.

Stu mentioned before a list of players whom he like, Cannavaro, Buffon, Villa, Ronaldo, the best of the cróp.

My question is the following. IMHO you can make a team that wins the CL and the premier and has 5 or 6 english players. To be honest, I like seeing Spaniards with that shirt, but I think an english club should always have 5 or 6 english men in their starting eleven.

My question (finally), do you care at all about that? or would you ready to play only with Carra and Gerrard as locals, and then an international army?

by **112-1077774096** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:38 pm

i would hate to see my club without any local talent in the team, let alone english men.

we are lucky we have always been blessed with scouse quality in the team.

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:40 pm

Sabre wrote:Stu, mates, everybody, I have a question.

Stu mentioned before a list of players whom he like, Cannavaro, Buffon, Villa, Ronaldo, the best of the cróp.

My question is the following. IMHO you can make a team that wins the CL and the premier and has 5 or 6 english players. To be honest, I like seeing Spaniards with that shirt, but I think an english club should always have 5 or 6 english men in their starting eleven.

My question (finally), do you care at all about that? or would you ready to play only with Carra and Gerrard as locals, and then an international army?

Think he was taking the p!ss with his list mate.

by **stmichael** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:45 pm

Stu.Murph wrote:How anyone can critisise Gerrard is absoloutely beyond me...

People slate him everytime he doesn't score or create? Why?

I agree Stu that when Momo got injured, Gerrard showed great maturity and discipline in the centre. Bentiez obviously asked Gerrard to play relatively defensively and this is exactly what he did. He chose when to get forward, rather than bursting forward every opportunity which he did last season in the centre which left us vulnerable at the back. (Benfica for example).

However with a clean bill of health, we're less reliant on him being a defensive shield than we've ever been before. In theory, this should free him up to be a constant and consistent attacking force, but sadly, that part of his game has let him down badly for the majority of the season.

If he was just any other player, then perhaps we wouldn't be discussing this however the difference is that he is the captain. You expect better performances from the captain and especially from a player with his quality.

There have been very few games where Gerrard has a made a difference for us and changed the outcome of the game.

by **Stu.Murph** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:12 pm

stmichael wrote:
Stu.Murph wrote:How anyone can critisise Gerrard is absoloutely beyond me...

People slate him everytime he doesn't score or create? Why?

I agree Stu that when Momo got injured, Gerrard showed great maturity and discipline in the centre. Bentiez obviously asked Gerrard to play relatively defensively and this is exactly what he did. He chose when to get forward, rather than bursting forward every opportunity which he did last season in the centre which left us vulnerable at the back. (Benfica for example).

However with a clean bill of health, we're less reliant on him being a defensive shield than we've ever been before. In theory, this should free him up to be a constant and consistent attacking force, but sadly, that part of his game has let him down badly for the majority of the season.

If he was just any other player, then perhaps we wouldn't be discussing this however the difference is that he is the captain. You expect better performances from the captain and especially from a player with his quality.

There have been very few games where Gerrard has a made a difference for us and changed the outcome of the game.

You're talking rubbish.

Steven Gerrard isn't, never will be, never has been and should never be used an "attacking midfielder". I'm absoloutely sick of this arguement. Why not play Hyypia infront of a midfield with Sissoko, Mascherano and Alonso in, it will free him up to attack more... Its :censored:

balls. Gerrard's an alrounder. Not a specific attacking or defensive midfielder. If anything he's far better at tracking back and making tackles than he is going forward. What makes him so good is his ability to do everything to an excellent standard. What makes Paul Scholes so good is his ability to attack, create and open up a defence. Different players that need to be utilized in completley different ways.

Gerrard gets asked to play in stupid :censored:

positions off the front man instead of where he's best. Right mid, or centre mid. He's a box to box midfielder who passes, tackles, scores, creates, defends, attacks, drives a team on, drags a team back into matches. Gerrard's been immense as usual this season and anyone who thinks otherwise is simply talking balls and needs to learn to understand the game properly.

Against United at home he shows how good is every time we play them, Rooney or Ronaldo get the ball then bang, he sprints full speed and just gobbles them up and takes the ball away from them. He's probably one of the quickest players in the league and is easily one of the best ball winners.

If Steven Gerrard wasn't in our team we'd be in serious trouble. Its as simple as that.

He is by quite a distance the best player at Liverpool football club and I'm getting really fed up of the Gerrard bashing this season. How anyone can dare sit there and complain about him is absoloutely beyond me. I hate it when he recieves to much praise and to much :censored:

kissing, but this season the attitude towards him has been a disgrace. If we had 3 other midfielders as good as him and two strikers half as good as him we'd be unstoppable.

by **metalhead** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:18 pm

I agree with ya stu, against chelsea he was immense, and some games he worked his socks off for the team, you can see him running all over the pitch. Maybe in a few games he was a bit lazy and quite, but he does a fantastic contribution to the team.

I agree with you about his position, i always said he is a natural midfielder, not a playmaker nor a holding midfielder, a natural midfielder who can also play on the right and does really well on the right.

We need more quality players to challenge for the premiership next year, get a winger (pedersen is a very realistic choice who I think he is quality, very creative, fast, can dribble, can pass and can shoot free kicks also dangerous at set pieces from corners), get a quality striker, if west ham goes down, i would advise rafa to sign ashton. Also, a center back and a left back (riise not good enough end off!)

by **alxy** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:05 am

Let's get things in perspective: where we were and where we want to be.

Coming from where we were a few years back, yes, we're not doing so badly. We are now considered serious contenders year-in year-out for the Champion's League and Anfield has become a fortress again. And we finally have quality players in virtually every position in the team (as opposed to say, Traore and Salif Diao...remember them?) Yes, we're disappointed with the draw, but think again. That is only because we were hugely expecting a win. Under the dark days of GH, a trip to Man City would send shivers down our spine and we would probably be ecstatic with the 1 point. I still recollect being absolutely horrified at how much defending we had to do then to get even the 1 point. Nowadays, the 1 point is not so much due to our defending but more our inability to score goals. I can hardly recollect a game nowadays where we were completely being dominated by the opposition for 90 minutes. Even the loss to Man.ure at Anfield was after we dominated the sh.it out of them (yeah, you man.ure sc.um.... you know how lucky you were that day!)

Now, as for where we want to be. No, we cannot be happy at all. We are still the most successful English club in history, but that is the only consolation we have. We cannot deny that we have not been seriously challenging for the Premiership as much as we should have. And that hurts everyone of us.

Bottomline? Give Rafa a chance. He is definitely turning things around. The title is surely within our grasp in the near future. He worked out the home problem.... now he has to work out the away one.

by **Lucky** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:37 am

Sabre wrote:Stu, mates, everybody, I have a question.

Stu mentioned before a list of players whom he like, Cannavaro, Buffon, Villa, Ronaldo, the best of the cróp.

My question is the following. IMHO you can make a team that wins the CL and the premier and has 5 or 6 english players. To be honest, I like seeing Spaniards with that shirt, but I think an english club should always have 5 or 6 english men in their starting eleven.

My question (finally), do you care at all about that? or would you ready to play only with Carra and Gerrard as locals, and then an international army?

I wouldn't like a too much international team. I think any team should have its local talents and national players, which gives it the very character that differentiates it from any other teams. And also its local talents may be more willing to stay longer with the team, which makes the team more stable. On the other hand, we do need some great international players to help improve some of our weak positions and make us a much stronger team. But, hey, a LFC with all international players? Can't imagine that, just thought it won't be LFC any more.

by **kunilson** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:06 am

alxy makes a good point,

the expectation we have nowadays from our own team is way too much. we have been starved of a league title for 17-18 years, now that we finally look like a team that can seriously challenge for it in the near future we're getting ahead of ourselves. Same can be said about steven gerrard's season, we have been blessed with 2-3 great seasons from him the last couple of seasons and maybe thats why some may be disappointed with him this season. no1 can keep up those standards.

we need creative players, and an eto'o esque striker. think everything we need has been said in this thread.....what else is left?

by **neil** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:28 pm

alxy wrote:Let's get things in perspective: where we were and where we want to be.

Coming from where we were a few years back, yes, we're not doing so badly. ..................... He worked out the home problem.... now he has to work out the away one.

Good post. I cant ever recall a team going from 4th or 5th position in the league every year to annual champions without give or say £250 million. Rafa is going the right way about things, it takes along time to build a league winning team, when a manager takes control he has to turn around ship not a pushbike..er ...i think...anyway it takes ages to set a new course with his own players.

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