Liverpool FC Forum

by **red37** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:07 pm

the 'panic sirens' are drowning out the voices of reason after each mis-placed step along the way.. this may well be one of the longest 'learning curves' we'll experience supporting this club. thats the whole concept of one..that you do actually get something out of it you can use. be it one game, a whole season or at least fifteen... as long as benitez is getting answers from the questions he's having to face, the trend can be reversed.eventually. and seeing as it is that long since the club were champions, it makes the road he has to back track on even tougher. it'd be a shame if at the end of it the doubters weren't there to see its fruition.

patience most certainly is a virtue hard to entertain.
whereas hope you can find even in the darkest of spaces. even if it asks a h.ell of a lot to try and look.
the club is working towards this 'goal' from all levels. and if you support that claim as genuinely as you all did after May 25th, well that kind of thinking will go a long way to aid the recovery.

the personnel, the formation, the tactics and the 'plan' are all out of bounds to us. we have a single role. none of us need reminding of it. most, of us keep our side of the deal.

what or even whoever it is that needs to be changed at anfield. benitez is aware of, you cant even say he 'should be' aware of it. HE IS. it will remain to be seen whether he CAN alter it, or if indeed the task falls to another. but for now, its his court.

.. this will take an awful long time to turn round. big decisions to be made? possibly. huge great big military style overthrowing of the management and half the squad? absolutely not..

chin-up everybody at least having bad days makes the good ones seem even sweeter. the solutions cant be that far away. we know where the weakness' are at least. we all do..
you can only look forward if you want to get somewhere..looking back gives you a sense of WHY and where things go astray. and thats down to the boss to wise up on. the only way is up. literally!

by **metalhead** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:17 pm

well said red37! well said!

*clap*

by **teamleader1** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:51 pm

Spot on

by **parchpea** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:58 pm

The stakes are high and competition fierce and Liverpool are are a club that demands success. The management and players are paid huge amounts of money and its only right that we make comment when they fall short of our expectations. This was billed as the year we got it right in the league. Finally we would have a resiliant and consistent Liverpool week in week out in the premiership. Instead of this we seem to be going backwards and I for one do not find it acceptable. I think we are past the patience stage with this group and their efforts in the league. They need to get into gear and start winning matches and end the misery of seeing teams of ther calibre of Wigan, West Ham and Charlton above us and comfortably at that. Really, its just not good enough and I dont think anyone can argue that.

by **red37** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:02 pm

parchpea wrote:The stakes are high and competition fierce and Liverpool are are a club that demands success. The management and players are paid huge amounts of money and its only right that we make comment when they fall short of our expectations. This was billed as the year we got it right in the league. Finally we would have a resiliant and consistent Liverpool week in week out in the premiership. Instead of this we seem to be going backwards and I for one do not find it acceptable. I think we are past the patience stage with this group and their efforts in the league. They need to get into gear and start winning matches and end the misery of seeing teams of ther calibre of Wigan, West Ham and Charlton above us and comfortably at that. Really, its just not good enough and I dont think anyone can argue that.

you are totally correct in that assessment as well....despite how negative it appears. what you have stated are honest facts. theres no p.ussy-footing around them at all. in 'actual' fact your comment...."They need to get into gear and start winning matches" however simplified a statement, is the whole essence of the point, even though devoid of insight, it would obviously be a good start...

thats down to those who have that responsibility.

our part of the bargain is to recognise their efforts for what they are in the 'wider picture' (also an arguement without foundation)
not any of us seriously expected a TITLE push this year, an improvement on 5th, yes. breaching the top 3 is certainly the 'best case scenario' for us. a tall order now at that. but to say we've gone backwards just isnt reasonable to announce after what is efffectively only a quarter of the season, after what was a short pre-season. and after numerous breaks in play, for internationals/champions league ties etc. and you have to question whether some fatigue isnt setting in. you'd be wrong not to. maybe some of the team havnt come down yet from cloud 9. who knows. in which case they will learn from that. i doubt whether that is the case but, it cant be relied on.

i suppose it all boils down to your own threshold of acceptibility versus the circumstances at the end of the day. that could be interpreted as one of two things:

a) you come from a time when liverpool were dominant. and the staple diet was success, generally. then you refuse to even contemplate them having to re-invent their craft. why should LFC fans settle for less?....

b) you stop picking fault in whats basically an evolving squad and wake up to the fact that, we just arent that great, yet. neither have we the resources in enough areas that matter to be when it comes to the premiership. again, yet.

being champions of europe as we are seeing isnt the cure all many read it to be. the only thing i can throw in regards that is, maybe its simply a case of the players being able to use the 'heads' more in europe, at least having more space to do it in. doesn't take a genius to work out the alternative style suited to league football. on that score rafa has at least identified that side of the coin with the inclusion of sissoko and crouch. yeah theyr'e not world-beaters, its a start? and who is to say though one cant be 'fashioned' out of them. like everything in life thats worth achieving, it will take time and that is the only crumb of comfort that can be offered if you are still 'on the fence' let alone about to jump ship...cos thats what some are intimating from the knee jerkers that post directly after these matches.

seeds of doubt grow into fears, they then start eating away until your left with nothing but the unpalateable taste of bitterness..and we know how that works. before you know it, you get drawn into calling out, 'lets sack the manager'...'get whatsisface in' then where are you?

right back at the start of another 15 year exile.

by **neil** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:18 pm

people are quite rightly peeved my friend, an opportunity has obviously been missed. The European Champions are afforded the prospect of signing the top drawer players, and as a result, some would say by default, arrest a domestic decline last seen around the Nottingham area. Harsh words there, granted, but prove these words wrong, what suggests to you that domestically things are on the upturn? the crushing home defeat to chelsea? the 1 goal from open play? the £7million spent on a striker to hold up the ball during tricky periods in away games, that 4 away games in, gets dropped?
I've said this on another thread, but its the emperors new clothes.

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:34 pm

There's definately lots of nonsense been talked on here over the last few weeks. Some of it by my goodself if I'm honest. Lots of "In Rafa we trusts, don't be a knee-jerker, it's a long journey" etc etc. The simple fact of the matter is though, and lets stop pretending here and kidding ourselves, we are playing really really poorly at this present moment in time. What's more, we haven't got going all season to be totally honest.

Now I'm certain Rafa will pack the team with young players for the game at Palace on Tuesday night. So would I if I was him because I couldn't in all honesty go in with our strongest team with any certainty we would get a result. The possibility of our strongest team getting turned over at Palace is not what we need right now so we will bring the kids in. Anybody confident about the West Ham game? really confident?

The point I'm making here is that it seems folly in the extreme to pretend on a Liverpool supporters forum that all is rosy when clearly it isn't. Confidence is desperately low at the moment and the minute teams get in amongst us, we look decidedly vulnerable. Why nobody has seen fit to do it against us in the Champions League sofar is a mystery to me but thats for other clubs to work out.

It seems to me that continuing blindly on, revolving the formation and the players from game to game and persisting with a formation which clearly doesn't suit us we are not helping ourselves. Rafa is the right man for the job but I'm losing patience with delusional notions about building a squad from scratch to finally mount the impenetrable ramparts of Chelsea castle and stealing the crown jewels. At the moment we shouldn't even concern ourselves with Chelsea. We need to win some football matches and though i don't follow football abroad that much, I bet you've got to score goals to win games there aswell.

by **red37** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:38 pm

nothing suggests ripping it up and starting all over again either. what ive said is, there has to be changes, thats obvious. but not at the expense of the distance we've already travelled. however frustrating it is to witness the slow progress, surely souness tenure isnt that faded a memory?

time and the resolve of our patience together with a degree of optimism (that word)! are the only factors we can offer our club. and i dont think we are any where near the 'end of the storm' either. if your in for the ride, your IN. end of, no matter how jealous you are of other clubs. moaning and groaning isnt going to make us champions nor is asking for the managers head. tell you what though, wait till the end of the season before any knives are sharpened. at least give the guy a full and fair crack at it eh?

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:38 pm

You should bloody know bettter. I'll explain why tomorrow when i'm sober. Can't say i'm happy, with team, but i'll tell you what, some of the "fans" and "supporters" on this board are an absoloute disgrace and do not deserve this fantastic club and also do not deserve to have the right, to celebrate what happened last May.

You should be ashamed of yourselves!!

by **bigmick** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:49 pm

stu_the_red wrote:You should bloody know bettter. !!

If thats at me Stu and I suspect it is, my answer would be that I do know better than to pretend we are playing well at the moment when clearly we aren't.
So what do you do when you're not playing well? Sack the manager? well I'm certainly not advocating that. As I said in the original post, Rafa is the right man for the job.
Do you drop some players? Possibly some could do with a spell on the bench. The unfortunate thing is that with the rotation system we are currently employing, none of the players could truly be said to be on the fringes and bursting for a game. They are all equally culpable.
Or do you do what I suspect we will actually do? That is, nothing different really. Just stumble on and keep our fingers crossed that things turn around. I'll predict here and now what will happen if we do that, Steven Gerrard will get fit again and will win us a few matches in the Prem.
Is it progress though? Is a football team like a golf-swing in that when you improve it you've got to make it worse first? I'm not so sure.

by **neil** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:49 pm

can't wait till tomorrow then.

by **red37** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:51 pm

bigmick wrote:"The point I'm making here is that it seems folly in the extreme to pretend on a Liverpool supporters forum that all is rosy when clearly it isn't."

good reply (your whole post)

the younger players have to be looked at now, i fully agree.

although i havnt said anything about how rosy the situation is, merely that, come the time when, as you yourself concede..rafa is the right man and he will lead this club back to the top.. what i have said is, when/if that does happen. what license will the 'doom-sayers' have then to be vindicated. they'll still be around. they just wont have the right to a forum. when the only voices they used were those of dissent and disruption. because that is what they want to achieve..and that has to be eradicated. even you mick must see this.

by **neil** » Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:54 pm

f.uck me! do I detect a bit of McCarthysm here? I could go on about the blind leading the blind, but I wont.

thats nothing to do with sunderland btw

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:03 am

red37 wrote:what i have said is, when/if that does happen. what license will the 'doom-sayers' have then to be vindicated. they'll still be around. they just wont have the right to a forum. when the only voices they used were those of dissent and disruption. because that is what they want to achieve..and that has to be eradicated. even you mick must see this.

The thing is Red I don't believe what I or anybody else posts on here matters a toss really mate if I'm honest. Rafa is the gaffer and he will do what he sees fit. Much as I'd love him to give us a ring and say "hey Mick, how do you read our current situation?" I'm not exactly holding my breath. This is merely banterious knockabout with Liverpool supporters of various shades of Red.
I'm just putting up my opinion, I don't think anybody should find it particularly offensive. My opinion is that our Premiership form over last season and the beginning of this is woeful and signing a winger in January isn't going to radically alter it. I'm all for the right mentality to coin a phrase, and this is what we are seriously lacking right now in my view. Now if you could but that in January, then you might be talking.

by **red37** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 12:14 am

no neil please do, its what being a supporter means.. the right to a 'valid' opinion. . saying what you feel about your club is part and parcel, however much someone differs from you.

i want the best for liverpool. ive seen them WHEN they were that. one day i hope they will regain that status. id like us to play solid formations that the players can handle, at the level they are comfortable at...wrong players? use different ones. and whether they come from the reserves or whether they arrive in the transfer window, im not ar5ed.
what iam concerned with is the lack of bottle/fight throughout the team being mirrored in here. when quite clearly the former of those is bound to improve....the same cannot be said for the poisonous often inaccurate boring drivel passed off as intellectual debate, in these pages after a 'bad' result.

no things are NOT ok. we are nowhere near the title. the team has weaknesses. the manager is not infallable. that what you want to hear?
yes the system isnt working. reserves need to be looked at.january needs to see quality recruitments.

but no way do i think the situation is critical.

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