Liverpool FC Forum

by **JBG** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:41 pm

Its true, compared to 95% of Man UTD supporters.

In some ways, I can half respect Scum fans dating from the 70s and 80s as these are true fans.

by **LFC #1** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:44 pm

i am sure some of the younger fans who started supporting manure in the 90's are true fans too JBG, unfortunatley they get a bad wrap cos of all the clueless ones.

I can see the same thing happening at Chelsea, all Stamford Bridge ever comes up with is Chelsea, Chelsea, Chelsea, Chelsea etc.

by **A.B.** » Mon Dec 06, 2004 11:47 pm

There are many kids here mostly Latinos who barely know Man Utd's starting 11 yet they seem to like the scum.

by **fivecups** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:10 am

John Barnes' Granny wrote:It wasn't a dig at you LFC1, but to older supporters who lived during the glory days the "treble" of 2001 (1984 was a real treble) was not the great achievement that many Liverpool supporters make out.

Sure, I hugely enjoyed it, but its value has been over stated.

Disagree JBG. I think the achievements of the 2000/01 season have been diluted by the 'calamitous', as Mick puts it, three seasons that followed.

Im not a Houllier advocate, I was praying for him to resign or be sacked last spring.

The fivecups nick was more used as a wind-up to non LFC supporters and I agree with SS regarding the Charity Shield etc. Still we did physically hold 5 trophies, the only way to do that is to count a few ****** ones in there

But lets take the above season in isolation.

We started with only a Uefa cup spot not even CL.

We did the double over both United and Everton in the league, remeber Nevilles hand ball and Gary Mac's free kick.

We beat Arsenal twice.

We had a fantastic finish to the season winning something like 9 out of 10 matches. While we were beating Everton and Spurs in the league we were beating Barcelona, Roma and Porto in the UEFA cup and Arsenal in the FA Cup. We just about clinched a CL spot - it was like another cup run.

It was the fact that we won the lot that made it a great season. It's so easy to have a bad match and crash out of a cup, look at Arsenal in the CL last season. But we won all the cups we played in and qualified for the CL.

I agree that the Worthy meant little, the need for penalties took the edge off it. We were also lucky in the teams we met on the way to the FA Cup final, and scraped the victory at the end.

However its been 15 years since we landed the league and 20 since we won the European Cup. Thats a long time. The Premiership is what I crave but if we cant call any season a success until thats achieved we may have little to shout about for a long time.

I think thats a quality season in anyones book.

by **JBG** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:16 am

I'm not saying Houllier doesn't deserve some plaudits for 2001 and 2002 and they were both extremely enjoyable years, particularly after a long barren spell, but they can now be judged in the context of history and while they were a big achievement, the reality is, long time Liverpool supporters have been born and bred on title and European cups wins. Houllier did well for a while, but the alarming drop in form in 2003 and 2004 wasn't bad luck.

by **fivecups** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:38 am

Yep, I agree, and as I've said Im not a Houllier advocate, but I think the 2002/3 and 2003/4 seasons tarnished the memory of the treble season for some. And again if we judge any success in modern times relative to the glory years we are danger of not having something to shout about for a long time.

by **adayinthelife** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:45 am

fivecups wrote:Yep, I agree, and as I've said Im not a Houllier advocate, but I think the 2002/3 and 2003/4 seasons tarnished the memory of the treble season for some. And again if we judge any success in modern times relative to the glory years we are danger of not having something to shout about for a long time.

Every Liverpool manager is judged on the league and houllier failed miserably and even when we finished 2nd he was in charge for less than half the matches.

by **supersub** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:53 am

What followed the treble season did tarnish that achievement because Houllier failed to grasp the realisation,that despite winning those three cups,we were still a fair way off being a contender.It was obvious to nearly everyone we needed to bring in quality players.Houllier reached the pinnacle of his achievement and placed a cherry on the top by finishing 2nd in the league a year later.That's where the the rise faltered and we began to slide back but GH went into denial...it was his total failings in the transfer market that would be his un-doing and the ridiculous attempts at excuses and blame,that he heaped on everybody else but himself.
It's so refreshing to hear Rafa Benitez after a match..has he ever whinged about no forwards,no Gerrard, no this,that, the other.

by **JBG** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:57 am

Two good comments Benitez has made in the last few days:

1. At the AGM he said that he won't promise us the league or make any predictions as to when he'd win it, but he was trying his best.

2. Today he said that his players must "walk tall" against Olympiakos but if they fail to win the game, then maybe they won't have deserved to qualify.

No spin, no excuses, just rolling up his sleeves and getting down to work.

by **fivecups** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:04 am

Totally agree Supersub. I remember the expectation around that time, we were on the way up, we were going to enter another period of dominance whilst United would slip away to be also-rans again.

Then it all went wrong. We signed the wrong players. We stopped playing like a team. And Houllier seemed to become more and more detached from reality. At the end he was literally fighting with the press with his refusal to acknowledge our deteoriation. Excuses and more excuses.

Rafa is so different. And our style of football is different now. Point for point we're currently no better than under Houllier but theres a feeling things are changing.

I hope our financial situation becomes clearer so we can concentrate on the football again soon.

by **the great one** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:11 am

John Barnes' Granny wrote:Two good comments Benitez has made in the last few days:

1. At the AGM he said that he won't promise us the league or make any predictions as to when he'd win it, but he was trying his best.

2. Today he said that his players must "walk tall" against Olympiakos but if they fail to win the game, then maybe they won't have deserved to qualify.

No spin, no excuses, just rolling up his sleeves and getting down to work.

Jbg do u think the greeks will come for a draw knowning the only need a point to go through there coach so there won't bu i bet you they will.It will make for an good game if both side go for the win so it will be wide open and great news by the liverpool staff about the moasic which will include 96 and 21

by **Santa** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 6:45 am

LFC #1 wrote:
John Barnes' Granny wrote:In many ways I have to say fair play to over seas supporters who started following the club in the 1990s because at least they cannot be accused of jumping on the band wagon!

you have no idea how many do though over here, the amount of manure fans there were when they won the CL in 1999 was astronomical.

I hate glory hunters.

I remembered those days when perople actually walk around town with Blackburn's jersey...wonder where they are now?

by **begintoend** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 7:49 am

Look, the worst was during Souness and Evans. GH came to mend some parts of it. It got us thinking that we could really do it with a few cups here and there. GH has credits there. But he lost his way after that and really has himself to blame(which he never) for the decline when we were almost up there. Rafa came in and completely start his revolution and now has a good balance in the squad. Something those 3 above could never had acheive. I am really glad Rafa is boss. And he knows SG is an asset to him and the plans that Rafa will be carrying out.

by **115-1073096938** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:53 am

No-one denies Houllier lost his way and made bad and the wrong signings. But what pisses me off and makes me so defensive are these idiotic and unappriciative ****** who claim the cups meant nothing. Well to you, they might not have, but me, being a red, and a real football supporter they meant the world. Seeing my team win a match makes me happy. Weather its a friendly, a cup final, a league match... it makes me happy. Even seeing the reserves roast someone puts a smile on my face.

Oh we only beat Arsenal on hanball decisions, we only beat Birmingham in the final, we only beat a village team on the way to the uefa cup, people don't mention the fact we knocked out Barcelona and Roma. They then say we didn't win because Houllier wasn't a good manager, it was luck. In football you always make your own "luck". People fail to realise the first years under Houllier went like a dream, any fool who says otherwise is talking out of there ******.

Three things cost Houllier his job...

1. The loss of Babbel who was probably our best player or at least one of our top class players at the time. Houlliers fault? Don't be soft.

2. The Fact he wasn't willing to RISK signing Anelka dues to his past... which in all fairness was a risk i understood and still do understand to this day. Houllier's fault? Yeah... but hindsight is a wonderful thing....

3. The failiure to sign Duff. Definately a massive mistake.

He then made some poor signings and some poor team selections and it went downhill.

However, to suggest that anything that happened before 2003/2004 season wasnt anything special is sheer ignorance and its those people who regard it as a waste of time who i don't class as true fans or supporters.

As to weather he could have turned it round.... none of us have a crystal ball, he was an excellent manager who wasn't good enough to give us what we wanted...

Its funny the way you're all judging Rafa after 6 months saying he's the best thing since sliced bread, it could go horribley wrong for him, do't build someone up to knock them down.

by **LFC #1** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 12:29 pm

agree with some points there Stu, I was made up when we won all those cups, it was a great season to be a Liverpool supporter, and being 18 my best memories of being an LFC fan.

sure you can't compare it to winning the league and European Cup, but it was our most succesful season since 1989/1990 and you can't belittle it, it was a fine achievement. The following season was also good with a 2nd place finish in the league and CL quarter final (which we were only minutes away from qualifying, then we would have played ManU in the semi-final and with our form against them at the time we could have been in a European Cup final).

Unfortunately it went down hill from there and it was time to depart company with Houllier and bring in the fresh ideas of Benitez.

Liverpool FC Forum

On the gerrard front, look at it this way...

Who is online