Liverpool FC Forum

[115-1073096938]

Strikers

Angel
Anelka
Morientes

Midfielders

Vicente
Malbranque
Parker
Baraja

Defenders

Gallas
King
Upson

All of which are quality players and would improve our side.

Code: Select all

                Angel     Cisse
Vicente                                Malbranque
               Baraja     Alonso

Riise       Hyypia    Carragher    Finnan

                    Kirkland

Subs:

Dudek
Traore
Hamann
Luis Garcia
Baros


Parker maybe if we couldn't get Baraja, and the striker of your choice out of the ones listed up there with Cisse or Baros.

Look at the options on the bench.

Also, one of the other centre halfs partnering Hyypia with Carragher on the right as another option. Using those players, without Gerrard think how good your best team would be... To me that looks a side good enough to win anything and i also think there is the correct mix of players.

If you keep Gerrard, the reality is you may only get ONE of those players if you are lucky.

Code: Select all

                Angel      Cisse
Riise                                       Finnan
              Gerrard     Alonso

Traore     Hyypia    Carragher     Josemi
    
                     Kirkland

Subs:

Dudek
Hamann
Kewell
Luis Garcia
Baros


I'd much rather see Riise at left back than Traore, I'd also rather have Vicente and Malbranque wide than two fullbacks.

[XSD]

There's no way we'd get all of those players for a Gerrard deal, unless some were in a cash/player exchange.
We would get like 35m for him.
That's not half enough for that list of players.

[JBG]

Sorry Stu, but thats utter fantasy stuff. You aren't even considering wages, like as if they don't exist.

Look at my post in: http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=7282&start=40

and you'll see the maths.

Rio Ferdidnand, for example, will cost Man UTD almost 50million in transfer fees and wages if he stays for 5 years.

[115-1073096938]

Its not fantasy JBG.

You're the one who's missing my point.

You sign three or four players using Gerrard transfer money.

That would give you £40m. Then you would look to spend ALL of that on players.

That gives you your current YEARLY transfer budget for your YEARS worth of wages from those 3 or 4 players.

You are also freeing up Gerrard's place in the wage structure which allows this to all add up. I'm not including it as its something which i don't feel is relivant.

So realistically you're adding two and a half players wages to the wage structure at about £8m (being extreme) which is the current transfer budget. So instead of spending that on players, you're simply paying the wages with that money.

[JBG]

So where are the wages going to come from?

We are already fairly stretched as it is, buying Duff would negate he savings made by getting Gerrard off the wage bill, and leave us at least 14million short of the transfer money we get for Gerrard.

Then all other players we get after that would be an increase in our wage bill which would have to be financed from somewhere. Unless we can shift 5 or 6 of the deadweights out of our squad (easier said than done nowadays, when we have to subsidise Heskey, Cheyrou, Diouff etc and none of these guys are no longer at the club), the money has to come from Gerrard's transfer. Only Chelsea are in a position to write us a cheque for Gerrard, every other club would pay in instalments, so the instalment money is used to pay for the increase in wages paid to other new signings.

You don't buy a player for a 10 million transfer fee, you have to factor in how much he's going to cost you to pay him wages over the length of his contract. A 10 million signing on 2million a year over four years in reality costs you 18million. If transfers were the only consideration then Bolton would have signed Rivaldo in the summer, but he was looking for 40,000+ a week and a signing on fee, so even signing him on a free transfer for 2 years would have cost Bolton at least 4-5million, so they eventually decided against it.

[jim_morrison_supported_liverpool]

sorry stu but it still doesnt all add up. the money from the gerrard deal would barely be enough to sign the players alone, never mind pay their wages. also, to be honest, that side you've put there doesnt look like a championship winning side, not with Arsenal and Chelsea in the league. we would would still be getting 3rd place at best with that team, having sold our best player Gerrard.

Also the defence is still sh*t. Hyppia has got 2/3 years left, and that;s with form declining. Riise is not a good left back, and gives it away too often, and Finnan is consistently average. there's no pace in that defence whatsoever. and i would bolster that up first before bringin in all those midfielders. our midfield isnt the best at the moment but its the strongest part of our squad, and well capable of achieving things, with a decent strike force (halfway there with Bros and Cisse) and a strong defence, capable of keepin up with strikers.

Nice idea Stu dont get me wrong, i'd love those players in the team, but the maths doesnt work and it still leaves us with only a good team, not a boss one.

[115-1073096938]

Jim, my point is that side i put down is ONE centre half away from a class side. That can be signed the season after.

You say about the defence having pace, Valencia's didn't. Pace isn't everything.

Marchena and Ayala weren't the quickest. I disagree on Riise aswell. He's proved this season he's a superb alround player.

A settled defence with those four players in would be very strong in my opinion.

When we played with that back four against Charlton we looked very solid. Granted its not the best back four in the world. But the rest of the side with the right tactics has everything.

Alonso and Vicente have the potential and age on there side to become world class players. Cisse is another who i think can improve to another level.

[jim_morrison_supported_liverpool]

firstly i think we'll have to agree to differ on the Riise thingy. i must have been watchin a different Riise. i know he's played better at times this season than he has done for the past 2 and a half seasons, but still hasnt shown much defensively and i swear to God next time i see him hoof it up the pitch when we should be passing i'll chew my own ear off.

also, Valencia didnt have to be pacy in the Spanish League. there is a big difference there and in the Prem. if you havent got ANY PACE AT ALL in your defence in the prem you will get had off, unless you play deep like Houllier did, and thats the last thing i ever want to see. even this season, our defence plays well when we're deeper. as soon as we push up to start attacks (mostly away from home) we look like we could be getting scored past.

there's alot of if's and but's and maybe's in your theory, what with "signing a central defender the year after." sometimes you cant just "sign someone" it doesnt always go to plan.
Cisse aswell, the jury's still out on him. speculatin about whther he can get to another level is pointless cos we dont really know if he'll go backward or forward whilst over here.

but mainly, we just wouldnt be able to get all those players from a Gerrard deal.

[adayinthelife]

If we sold Gerrard the chances are Benitez would try and sign Morientes,Vicente,Baraja and hopefully Gallas.

The chances of us getting those players for 35m combined is a different matter.

[115-1073096938]

also, Valencia didnt have to be pacy in the Spanish League. there is a big difference there and in the Prem. if you havent got ANY PACE AT ALL in your defence in the prem you will get had off,

Disagree with you. Chelsea and Evertons defences aren't particularly quick.

Theres only Bridge and occassionally Gallas (when he plays) who have natural pace. Out of those only Gallas has the recovering ability.

[JBG]

As Stu says: pace isn't everything. AC Milan never had much pace in the backs (not that it ever really mattered in Italy  ) yet they still dominated Europe in the late 1980s and early 1990s. If the players are smart enough and well organised enough then this can compensate for pace.

Remember Paul McGrath? He was one of the best defenders in the English game for years and was magnificent at international level as well, yet his knee was ruined and he was an alcoholic, but his reading of the game was so good that he was still able to cut it at Premiership level until the age of 38.

[jim_morrison_supported_liverpool]

yes but did you not see the other part of my post? i said if you have no pace you have to defend deep. thats what Everton certainly do. they know theycant win the league like that, and we wont win the league if we have to do it.

JBG that's in Italy mate. like Spain, totally different ball game (pardon the pun).

i assume we dont want o see our team defending deep, i assume we wanted to see the brighter side of playing which by the looks of it Rafa is instilling slowly.

i insist we need at least 1 pacey centre half at the back if we are gonna play the way Benitez intends us to, because we're in the prem, not on the continent.

[adayinthelife]

At the same time Hyypia's lack of pace is a serious weakness in our defence and if it wasn't for Traore's last ditch tackles and Carragher's heroics every game it would be even more apparent.

[115-1073096938]

yes but did you not see the other part of my post? i said if you have no pace you have to defend deep. thats what Everton certainly do. they know theycant win the league like that, and we wont win the league if we have to do it.

JBG that's in Italy mate. like Spain, totally different ball game (pardon the pun).

i assume we dont want o see our team defending deep, i assume we wanted to see the brighter side of playing which by the looks of it Rafa is instilling slowly.

i insist we need at least 1 pacey centre half at the back if we are gonna play the way Benitez intends us to, because we're in the prem, not on the continent.

Thats rubbish.

Absoloute rubbish.

We got 80 points playing that way with one world class player, 3 top class players and 2 quality players.

Owen, Hamann, Anelka, Hyypia, Gerrard and Riise. In order.

If that side would have had Duff in for Smicer we would have had enough to gain that extra 7 points.

Playing to your strengths wins games whatever they are. Don't give me ****** about playing a certain way wins you trophies because it doesn't. You do what your personel allows you too do. You get the best out of you're best players.

Simple as that.

[mrcool2003]

well to be honest, arsenal won the league with attacking football and so did man utd to be fair

but i can see your point that they had the players to play that way, we dont really, not yet anyway

and hamann isn't quality, hes past it, i never thought he much good to begin with to be honest, and anelka well since he left arsenal hasnt been the same player imo