Liverpool FC Forum

Stu the Red » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:31 pm wrote:
Reina is miles ahead in probably every department.

Every department except one...     Reina didn't want to play for LFC anymore.

redno7 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:15 pm wrote:

Stu the Red » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:31 pm wrote:
Reina is miles ahead in probably every department.

Every department except one...     Reina didn't want to play for LFC anymore.

Not 100% true, Reina didn't want to play for us when he thought a Barcelona move was on. When the deal fell through he wanted to stay.

However the moment he made it clear he would consider a move away if Barcelona came knocking was the moment his fate was sealed. You cannot blame a club for covering their backs when their first team keeper makes statements like that. Signing another keeper early to prevent being left in the sh!t was what every sensible club would do.

Reina should have waited till a concrete offer came in before making his intentions to move public. 100% his fault.

Such an idiot because he is better than Mignolet.

I like Mignolet. Reina was better in his first 4 years but his form declined since Rafa left and the current Mignolet is better than Reina in his post Rafa days. Nevertheless, I was hoping Brendan would sign Stoke's Begovic before he got Mignolet. IMO Begovic is the best keeper in the PL. I am scared to say this, but Mignolet's form has dipped recently. Both 2nd goals conceded in the City and Chelsea game were avoidable and Stoke's 3rd goal were shot straight at him and it still went past him.

SouthCoastShankly » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:13 pm wrote:

redno7 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:15 pm wrote:

Stu the Red » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:31 pm wrote:
Reina is miles ahead in probably every department.

Every department except one...     Reina didn't want to play for LFC anymore.

Not 100% true, Reina didn't want to play for us when he thought a Barcelona move was on. When the deal fell through he wanted to stay.

However the moment he made it clear he would consider a move away if Barcelona came knocking was the moment his fate was sealed. You cannot blame a club for covering their backs when their first team keeper makes statements like that. Signing another keeper early to prevent being left in the sh!t was what every sensible club would do.

Reina should have waited till a concrete offer came in before making his intentions to move public. 100% his fault.

Such an idiot because he is better than Mignolet.

Very good post (for once).

Where I have issue is the choice and quality of replacement.

Reina had to go once he said what he did, if he however has had a change of heart during his time away, which is more than possible, I'd have him back in an instant.

Replacing him with Mignolet though instead of Begovic is complete baffling as I'm quite sure Begovic could have been tempted away from Stoke (unless he's been tapped up by Chelsea/City/United)... where he will probably be playing next season.

he isnt the worst keeper but isnt better than pepe    we would have been better keeping reina imo or even better rodgers doing what he said he was, in creating competition.
but then again he was relentless in trying to force a move, wasnt he ? all those interviews where he pimped himself out to barca, ive lost track of it there has been so many.
mingy would still be at sunderland now and we could have spent the £10 mil on an outfield player who would play rather than address a position we didnt need to. valdez is staying at barca till the end of the season and reina should have stayed here, if they came in for him then we could have then moved for mingy or better begovic.
for most though having to watch the constant streaming of interviews where pepe is claiming he wants out or doesnt want to be here anymore might have been too much to bear this season.

Stu the Red » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:42 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:19 am wrote:
I said that because the people who follow Mignolet's every movement and look for a mistake can't get over the fact that he replaced Pepe. Everyone tries to compare him with Pepe and when he makes a mistake they go on about how Pepe would have simply made a step to the side and saved it with no problems. He saved them so simply in the past few seasons that shots went through his arms in every second game.

Honestly mate, I can't say where we would have been with Reina. No one can. But what I know is that it was time for him and for the club to move on. And so should our supporters. Now it's time we start looking how good Mign has been for us not just how many mistakes he's done. That's the whole idea of support.

So you believe that the club is right to replace arguably one of the top five keepers in Europe (easily top ten) and replace him by spending £3,000,000 more, thats £10,000,000) with the seventh or eighth best keeper in England and we're supposed to sit here and be happy clappy about it?

Tell you what, why don't we just sell Suarez and bring in Giroud or Remy to replace him?

And Coutinho? Why don't we sell him too and bring in Adam Johnson to replace him?

Mignolet is a decent goalkeeper, nothing more. Certainly wouldn't call him quality.

Without a doubt I would take Vorm, Hart, Begovic, Cech, Schzenzny and Lloris ahead of him and then there's a good arguement for Howard, Guzan, Krul and Boruc being as good if not better.

Why we didn't pull out all the stops to sign Begovic from stoke instead of Mignolet is beyond belief to be quite honest.

Firstly, I still can not understand how can you think that Reina wasn't horrible for about 3 years. I mean, I can understand a bad run of a few games, heck even a whole year, but for 3 seasons? That my friend, is unacceptable if we want to challenge for titles. What would have kept him at the club was his status but he even threw that out of the window once he started saying that he's planning on leaving. Don't kid yourself mate, Reina would have jumped ship as soon as Barca was available for him and we probably wouldn't have been having this conversation now if that happened.

Secondly, your criticism of Mignolet is so unfair it's unbelievable. To say that Mignolet is worse than some of those on your list is just laughable. You probably haven't seen how bad Lloris has been this season and you definitely haven't seen Vorm because he hasn't played a game. I'm not even going to argue on Guzan and Boruc. And even Hart only recently came back to being himself. If we had any of Krul and Schezny we would be having the same conversation because they're very similar with Mignolet. Especially Krul. If we signed Krul (who is also a quality keeper) you would have been saying the same things you're saying now about Mignolet and you would be asking why we didn't at least go for Mignelot. You think that you're being realistic but you're always being way too harsh and critical on our players.

As for not signing Begovic, I doubt that anyone in their right mind would pick Mignolet over Begovic. I mean, I like Mign, but Begovic is just something else. He must of not been available, I doubt that Rodgers didn't want to sign him.

The reality is mate, a change of keepers had to be made and there weren't too many available. We all hoped for Begovic but Mignolet was a nice alternative. For what it's worth I don't think that he's better than an in-form Pepe, but Mignolet is still one of the better keepers in the league. For proof, I suggest you re-watch games like Stoke at home, Aston Villa, Everton etc.

damjan193 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:20 pm wrote:Firstly, I still can not understand how can you think that Reina wasn't horrible for about 3 years. I mean, I can understand a bad run of a few games, heck even a whole year, but for 3 seasons? That my friend, is unacceptable if we want to challenge for titles. What would have kept him at the club was his status but he even threw that out of the window once he started saying that he's planning on leaving. Don't kid yourself mate, Reina would have jumped ship as soon as Barca was available for him and we probably wouldn't have been having this conversation now if that happened.

Secondly, your criticism of Mignolet is so unfair it's unbelievable. To say that Mignolet is worse than some of those on your list is just laughable. You probably haven't seen how bad Lloris has been this season and you definitely haven't seen Vorm because he hasn't played a game. I'm not even going to argue on Guzan and Boruc. And even Hart only recently came back to being himself. If we had any of Krul and Schezny we would be having the same conversation because they're very similar with Mignolet. Especially Krul. If we signed Krul (who is also a quality keeper) you would have been saying the same things you're saying now about Mignolet and you would be asking why we didn't at least go for Mignelot. You think that you're being realistic but you're always being way too harsh and critical on our players.

As for not signing Begovic, I doubt that anyone in their right mind would pick Mignolet over Begovic. I mean, I like Mign, but Begovic is just something else. He must of not been available, I doubt that Rodgers didn't want to sign him.

The reality is mate, a change of keepers had to be made and there weren't too many available. We all hoped for Begovic but Mignolet was a nice alternative. For what it's worth I don't think that he's better than an in-form Pepe, but Mignolet is still one of the better keepers in the league. For proof, I suggest you re-watch games like Stoke at home, Aston Villa, Everton etc.

Are you on the wind up?

Reina probably had 10 bad games in 5 years lad. I don't get where you think one of the top goalkeepers in world football was "horrible" from? To be quite honest, the fact you're calling him that is embarrassing.

With regards to the other keepers it isn't "unfair", its quite simply the truth. Vorm may have been injured, that does not mean that Mignolet is a better goal keeper. Its like saying Sterling is better Messi. Its quite simply rubbish.

Also you've again missed the point, had we signed Krul I wouldn't be saying we should have signed Mignolet, thats exactly the point, just as I'm not saying we should have signed Krul, Howard, Guzan or anyone else. Begovic was the answer (assuming Reina wasn't) and we fluffed it and ended up with a keeper who is just about decent and is no better than most and is absolutely 100% nowhere near any sort of improvement on the keeper we've allowed to leave.

Like I said, we've signed probably the seventh or so best keeper in the league. For me, that isn't good enough.

Stu the Red » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:52 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:20 pm wrote:Firstly, I still can not understand how can you think that Reina wasn't horrible for about 3 years. I mean, I can understand a bad run of a few games, heck even a whole year, but for 3 seasons? That my friend, is unacceptable if we want to challenge for titles. What would have kept him at the club was his status but he even threw that out of the window once he started saying that he's planning on leaving. Don't kid yourself mate, Reina would have jumped ship as soon as Barca was available for him and we probably wouldn't have been having this conversation now if that happened.

Secondly, your criticism of Mignolet is so unfair it's unbelievable. To say that Mignolet is worse than some of those on your list is just laughable. You probably haven't seen how bad Lloris has been this season and you definitely haven't seen Vorm because he hasn't played a game. I'm not even going to argue on Guzan and Boruc. And even Hart only recently came back to being himself. If we had any of Krul and Schezny we would be having the same conversation because they're very similar with Mignolet. Especially Krul. If we signed Krul (who is also a quality keeper) you would have been saying the same things you're saying now about Mignolet and you would be asking why we didn't at least go for Mignelot. You think that you're being realistic but you're always being way too harsh and critical on our players.

As for not signing Begovic, I doubt that anyone in their right mind would pick Mignolet over Begovic. I mean, I like Mign, but Begovic is just something else. He must of not been available, I doubt that Rodgers didn't want to sign him.

The reality is mate, a change of keepers had to be made and there weren't too many available. We all hoped for Begovic but Mignolet was a nice alternative. For what it's worth I don't think that he's better than an in-form Pepe, but Mignolet is still one of the better keepers in the league. For proof, I suggest you re-watch games like Stoke at home, Aston Villa, Everton etc.

Are you on the wind up?

Reina probably had 10 bad games in 5 years lad. I don't get where you think one of the top goalkeepers in world football was "horrible" from? To be quite honest, the fact you're calling him that is embarrassing.

With regards to the other keepers it isn't "unfair", its quite simply the truth. Vorm may have been injured, that does not mean that Mignolet is a better goal keeper. Its like saying Sterling is better Messi. Its quite simply rubbish.

Also you've again missed the point, had we signed Krul I wouldn't be saying we should have signed Mignolet, thats exactly the point, just as I'm not saying we should have signed Krul, Howard, Guzan or anyone else. Begovic was the answer (assuming Reina wasn't) and we fluffed it and ended up with a keeper who is just about decent and is no better than most and is absolutely 100% nowhere near any sort of improvement on the keeper we've allowed to leave.

Like I said, we've signed probably the seventh or so best keeper in the league. For me, that isn't good enough.

Not being able to see that Reina was in a very bad form for 3 seasons is very unobjective from you.

Calling Mignolet as good as the keepers that you mentioned is far different than calling them better, which you did. You're saying that Mignolet is about 7th on the list where in reality there are only about 3-4 keepers better than him in the league. I don't disagree that he's no better than (or as good as) the likes of Schezney, Howard, Krul, Lloris etc but calling them better is just unfair.

And I think it's you who doesn't understand the situation we were in. Whether you like it or not, Reina had to be replaced right there and then and we didn't have too many options for a replacement. I like to presume that Begovic was unavailable so Mignolet was the best alternative. If it wasn't Mignolet, then who else? Krul? Guzan? Ruddy?

Mignolet has done well since he's arrived and it certainly ain't his damn fault that Reina had to leave. He has made a few mistakes but not nearly enough to deserve the criticism that he's getting from people like yourself, especially considering the amount of times he's saved us from losing points.

Stu the Red » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:52 pm wrote:

damjan193 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:20 pm wrote:Firstly, I still can not understand how can you think that Reina wasn't horrible for about 3 years. I mean, I can understand a bad run of a few games, heck even a whole year, but for 3 seasons? That my friend, is unacceptable if we want to challenge for titles. What would have kept him at the club was his status but he even threw that out of the window once he started saying that he's planning on leaving. Don't kid yourself mate, Reina would have jumped ship as soon as Barca was available for him and we probably wouldn't have been having this conversation now if that happened.

Secondly, your criticism of Mignolet is so unfair it's unbelievable. To say that Mignolet is worse than some of those on your list is just laughable. You probably haven't seen how bad Lloris has been this season and you definitely haven't seen Vorm because he hasn't played a game. I'm not even going to argue on Guzan and Boruc. And even Hart only recently came back to being himself. If we had any of Krul and Schezny we would be having the same conversation because they're very similar with Mignolet. Especially Krul. If we signed Krul (who is also a quality keeper) you would have been saying the same things you're saying now about Mignolet and you would be asking why we didn't at least go for Mignelot. You think that you're being realistic but you're always being way too harsh and critical on our players.

As for not signing Begovic, I doubt that anyone in their right mind would pick Mignolet over Begovic. I mean, I like Mign, but Begovic is just something else. He must of not been available, I doubt that Rodgers didn't want to sign him.

The reality is mate, a change of keepers had to be made and there weren't too many available. We all hoped for Begovic but Mignolet was a nice alternative. For what it's worth I don't think that he's better than an in-form Pepe, but Mignolet is still one of the better keepers in the league. For proof, I suggest you re-watch games like Stoke at home, Aston Villa, Everton etc.

Are you on the wind up?

Reina probably had 10 bad games in 5 years lad. I don't get where you think one of the top goalkeepers in world football was "horrible" from? To be quite honest, the fact you're calling him that is embarrassing.

With regards to the other keepers it isn't "unfair", its quite simply the truth. Vorm may have been injured, that does not mean that Mignolet is a better goal keeper. Its like saying Sterling is better Messi. Its quite simply rubbish.

Also you've again missed the point, had we signed Krul I wouldn't be saying we should have signed Mignolet, thats exactly the point, just as I'm not saying we should have signed Krul, Howard, Guzan or anyone else. Begovic was the answer (assuming Reina wasn't) and we fluffed it and ended up with a keeper who is just about decent and is no better than most and is absolutely 100% nowhere near any sort of improvement on the keeper we've allowed to leave.

Like I said, we've signed probably the seventh or so best keeper in the league. For me, that isn't good enough.

Has he done enough for you this season?

Because MOST supporters would say he has.

All wrong, your right? Of course.

damjan193 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:48 pm wrote:Not being able to see that Reina was in a very bad form for 3 seasons is very unobjective from you.

Calling Mignolet as good as the keepers that you mentioned is far different than calling them better, which you did. You're saying that Mignolet is about 7th on the list where in reality there are only about 3-4 keepers better than him in the league. I don't disagree that he's no better than (or as good as) the likes of Schezney, Howard, Krul, Lloris etc but calling them better is just unfair.

And I think it's you who doesn't understand the situation we were in. Whether you like it or not, Reina had to be replaced right there and then and we didn't have too many options for a replacement. I like to presume that Begovic was unavailable so Mignolet was the best alternative. If it wasn't Mignolet, then who else? Krul? Guzan? Ruddy?

Mignolet has done well since he's arrived and it certainly ain't his damn fault that Reina had to leave. He has made a few mistakes but not nearly enough to deserve the criticism that he's getting from people like yourself, especially considering the amount of times he's saved us from losing points.

Its not unobjective at all. He had a bad run of form of about 5 games, recovered then made the odd mistake and was punished due to being left stupidly exposed time and time again from poor defending and people completely blew it out of all proportion. Its no coincidence that Reina's form dipped when he lost Carragher and Hyypia from infront of him, but to suggest he was poor for three seasons is boardering on ridiculous. He probably had 4 months where he wasn't at his absolute maximum in the whole of his time here. To even suggest Mignolet is even nearly as good is quite frankly ridiculous.

Reina is easily in the top in europe, Mignolet isn't even in the top 5 in England.

To be quite honest, I judge all players the same way, which may be "harsh and unfair" to some, but I don't believe in false praise. Mignolet this season has not had a good season. He's cost us silly poor goals and failed to command his box. He's also a camera goalie.

As for calling the Arsenal keeper and Lloris better than Mignolet is being unfair I'm sorry but thats *****. Thats like saying its unfair to say Suarez is better than Sturridge... theres nothing unfair about it. Its blatently true.

Hart, Cech, Szcezney, Vorm, Begovic and Lloris are all at least one or two level's above our goal keeper. Howard, De Gea and Guzan are easily on the same level if not better.

You may like having someone who's "decent"... you may find conceding more than a goal a game is acceptable. I don't.

Infact, going back to this, last season Reina wasn't too bad at all... he made ALOT less mistakes last year than Mignolet has this year.

Mind you, that's ok though, because Mignolet isn't as good... so as long as he's doing his best its ok for him to not be upto it!

And back to square one. Forget it Stu, you're just impossible to argue with sometimes. Praising Lloris with the form that he's been in this season and criticizing Mignolet just shows how unobjective you are and saying that he concedes "more than a goal a game (seriously mate?)" shows how much you exaggerate things. But in time, I know that you'll understand how wrong you are, just like you did with Sakho

damjan193 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:22 am wrote:criticizing Mignolet just shows how unobjective you are and saying that he concedes "more than a goal a game (seriously mate?)" shows how much you exaggerate things. But in time, I know that you'll understand how wrong you are, just like you did with Sakho

Check your stats, we've conceded more than a goal a game in the league.

Sahko... done ok for a few games, 5 good games doesn't make a season. Hopefully I am wrong, would like to be. If he continues as he did before the injury for the rest of the season then I'll gladly take that one on the chin.

Mignolet is no worse than Reina put it that way plus he is younger and on no doubt on half the wage minimum.

At this point I would argue they are equal risks with different attributes ability wise so Mignolet is a better bet
on the vastly lower wage and being younger with time to improve.

Reina was really poor for 2 years and whilst Mignolet has had a bad patch he has also saved us several times and
its the lads first year at the club.

Pepe was awesome but did go off the boil once Benitez left and I think the club made a good decision overall
replacing him.

I would admit Cech, De Gea, Hart and Szczeny look ahead of Mignolet but they also have more experience in front
of them and we have had problems at the back through injury and Rodgers does like to attack often leaving our
defence and keeper exposed.

parchpea » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:57 am wrote:Mignolet is no worse than Reina put it that way plus he is younger and on no doubt on half the wage minimum.

Think that's pretty much like saying Sturridge is no worse than Suarez. Whatever floats your boat.

Using the numbers below, I'd rate them something along these lines.
10, world class, 9, quality, 8, excellent, 7 good, 6 decent/average, 5, bottom half of premiership standard, 4, championship standard.

Handling, Pepe 9, Mignolet 7
Aerial ability, Pepe 8, Mignolet 6
Sweeping up, Pepe 9, Mignolet 7
Distribution, Pepe, Pepe 10, Mignolet 7
Positional sense, Pepe 9, Mignolet 6
Reflexes, Pepe 8, Mignolet 9
Agility, Pepe 8, Mignolet 9
Communication, Pepe 9, Mignolet 6
Kicking, Pepe 9, Mignolet 7
Commanding Area, Pepe 8, Mignolet 5
One on one, Pepe 8, Mignolet 8
Technique, Pepe 9, Mignolet 7
Ability to keep clean sheets, Reina 9, Mignolet, 5

For me, thats too big a gap.