Liverpool FC Forum

by **Reg** » Thu May 23, 2013 5:55 am

+1. The owners were right.

by **devaney** » Thu May 23, 2013 10:20 am

Benny The Noon » Wed May 22, 2013 7:13 pm wrote:No one has said sack BR and bring in Kenny ?

People have given their opinion - one they are entitled to give

People have higher standards and expectations for the club - standards they feel they are entitled to have

People would like to see better at the club management - they are entitled to feel that way

Free thinking and opinion. No one tells you that your opinion is "garbage"

Ok Kenny and Michael were tongue in cheek remarks that clearly went straight over your head. Rafa most certainly wasn't however and you have indicated on numerous occasions that you would immediately replace BR with Rafa. You are as you correctly point out, in your typically pompous style, that you are entitled to your opinion. What you also need to appreciate is that people will, and let's face it the numbers are increasing daily, disagree with your opinions especially if they could potentially be viewed as idiotic. If the nature of my posts were as controversial as yours I would fully expect and understand why some posters would regard them as garbage.

You constantly claim to have higher standards and yet you only recently gave the very strong impression, which you will probably deny due to your selective amnesia problem, that Downing should be considered as part of Liverpool's future next season. This Is a player who was a disgrace for 15 months and has improved from a very low base. If he forms part of your higher standards then unfortunately you are somewhat deluded. You constantly defended Andy Carroll when he was putting in some awful performances when playing for Liverpool. I admire your loyalty but unfortunately Andy has proved to be an extremely expensive failure that is probably going to cost Liverpool c£20m and is certainly nowhere near the standard that I require. Suarez, Sturridge and Courtinho have made an immediate impact. Andy unfortunately didn't. He is a very limited footballer and I wish him luck wherever he goes.

The major problem you seem to have is that you don't want to simply argue with everybody on this forum and then get very precious when somebody accuses you of talking rubbish, you seem to want to argue with yourself as well.

Don't expect another response because I do intend to turn this into another saga....... Please just try and learn something from the increasing number of posters that disagree with you.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu May 23, 2013 11:14 am

I haven't said people can't disagree with me - I'm not expecting everyone to agree with my opinion - that's the beauty of debate and forums - people having varying opinions. You yourself are just as opinionated as I am and have a strong belief in your opinion - but I'm not calling yours idiotic or a disgrace or any other insult that has been thrown - that's the difference that you clearly fail to see.

Please do not ever venture into one of the big Liverpool forums because you wouldn't handle it - there are plenty with the same opinion as myself ( in regards management and players etc ) and a lot of times it's in the majority - because of the small amount of posters - opinions like mine - which aren't following along with others will stick out.

Yes I would replace BR with Rafa if I had that opportunity - reason why is because I think he can get the club to where we should be. That's not that uncommon an opinion amongst Liverpool fans when you read the other big forums as well as amongst fans on the stands.

I respect your right to have an opinion and don't insult you because yours differs from mine - I ask you do the same

by **redno7** » Thu May 23, 2013 11:19 am

ha ha what a tube!

by **stmichael** » Thu May 23, 2013 12:32 pm

Homebooby » Wed May 22, 2013 10:48 am wrote:I like Brendan, irrespective of the past he IS our current manager and I think that he will do a good job for us. He doesn't strike me as a journeyman and I think that is only good for the club. Most of the 'alternative' big names are ALL journeymen and not suited to our traditions, imho.

I echo most of the sentiment on here of the progress made, there is actually something DIFFERENT about the way we finished this season. I think we got more things right than wrong and that definitely wasn't the case at the end of last season when I was also making excuses for Kenny to be given another chance. I would have supported that for sure, but I do feel we have taken a step out of the shadow that has been covering us for at least 5 years and maybe even 10. The media is slowly changing their tune to us and we are starting to become a viable concept for players to come and play for.

I find it strange to hear everyone talking about Brendans naivety and the learning curve. I feel that everyone attributes that to his 'relative' inexperience, but for me it is more down to the fact that he didn't have a full transfer window and clearly the alignments were not in place in the same way that they were in January and that led to the situations that played out. For me the fact that he has adapted so quickly to the challenges shows he had the capabilities, but for the first half of the season he was still learning about his players and conversely they were learning a new style. Managing any group of people is less to do with the technical capabilities and more to do with the environment and how trusted/safe people feel. If Brendan is guilty of anything it's really only been for putting faith in some people for perhaps longer than he should, but hindsight is 20/20 and few could argue with putting faith in players and giving them a chance to shine. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I think the Jan window was a statement of intent and a sign of things to come and no one can argue with Coutinho (Gerrard replacement in the making) and Sturridge, both had direct impact, they strengthened the team, gave more options and we have looked less like a one trick pony since then.

It was always clear defensively we were gonna be shaky and that is really where we have let ourselves down this season. It has to be and clearly will be a major point of focus this summer and I think it will transform us next season. We have already seen the impact of 1 or 2 players stepping up the quality. It changes the confidence of the rest and it changes the dynamic. If you don't trust your back four, you're in trouble and this most likely plays a big role today. Next season will be a different story hopefully.

Onwards and upwards, we're miles further ahead than we were last season even if the points and position don't necessarily reflect it at the moment. Transformation is like renovating a house, you gut it first and things look worse, you do a lot of prep work that takes all the time and the progress is not obvious, then you lay a floor and the empty shell looks quickly like a room, you add some furnishing and you have a home. We're about to lay the floor.

YNWA

excellent post

by **Penguins** » Thu May 23, 2013 3:18 pm

Well, without looking at the january transfer window or the play on the field, at times, If you look at the cold hard facts I would say result wise we couldn't have done a much worse season.
In the cups we were a fiasco going out to Swansea at home and Oldham... Resultwise F-
In the the league I would argue we could have done much worse either.
Who was going to overtake us? WBA, Swansea?
Midtable sides who are extremly happy finishing were they did. Unless we had some Newcastle freak season like last year I don't see any side possible below that really had a shot.
Sure we got a few more pts but were still not even close to challenge for the top 4.
Resultwise E

Sure, we can talk all day long about the positive signs, which there were, and the blind faith that BR is on to something, but if you look at the results only, nothing else, how on earth could we had done worse?
With the players we had...

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu May 23, 2013 3:46 pm

Penguins » Thu May 23, 2013 2:18 pm wrote:Well, without looking at the january transfer window or the play on the field, at times, If you look at the cold hard facts I would say result wise we couldn't have done a much worse season.
In the cups we were a fiasco going out to Swansea at home and Oldham... Resultwise F-
In the the league I would argue we could have done much worse either.
Who was going to overtake us? WBA, Swansea?
Midtable sides who are extremly happy finishing were they did. Unless we had some Newcastle freak season like last year I don't see any side possible below that really had a shot.
Sure we got a few more pts but were still not even close to challenge for the top 4.
Resultwise E

Sure, we can talk all day long about the positive signs, which there were, and the blind faith that BR is on to something, but if you look at the results only, nothing else, how on earth could we had done worse?
With the players we had...

We improved on the previous season on many counts - more league wins, less league defeats, better goal difference, more league points and higher league position.

So I would say it is faith in BR philosophy not blind faith as you make out.

by **woof woof !** » Thu May 23, 2013 4:43 pm

Penguins » Thu May 23, 2013 3:18 pm wrote:
Sure, we can talk all day long about the positive signs, which there were, and the blind faith that BR is on to something, but if you look at the results only, nothing else, how on earth could we had done worse?
With the players we had...

I know where you're coming from but "with the players we had" ?. Not looking to make excuses here but whilst I accept that we could have done better I also acknowledge that it's been a period of transition and it took some time for the squad to adjust to the new manager and his plan, individually some of them didn't even begin to "turn up" until we were already a third of the way into the season. The good news was we signed what turned out to be two (so far) outstanding additions to the team and we finally began put in some impressive performances.

I've had my doubts about BR and they're not yet all dispelled but on what I've seen this season I am feeling positive/optimistic about his management so far, I am however expecting a lot more next season, failure to have a real crack at the top four will be unacceptable.

by **Penguins** » Thu May 23, 2013 5:26 pm

SouthCoastShankly » Thu May 23, 2013 2:46 pm wrote:
Penguins » Thu May 23, 2013 2:18 pm wrote:Well, without looking at the january transfer window or the play on the field, at times, If you look at the cold hard facts I would say result wise we couldn't have done a much worse season.
In the cups we were a fiasco going out to Swansea at home and Oldham... Resultwise F-
In the the league I would argue we could have done much worse either.
Who was going to overtake us? WBA, Swansea?
Midtable sides who are extremly happy finishing were they did. Unless we had some Newcastle freak season like last year I don't see any side possible below that really had a shot.
Sure we got a few more pts but were still not even close to challenge for the top 4.
Resultwise E

Sure, we can talk all day long about the positive signs, which there were, and the blind faith that BR is on to something, but if you look at the results only, nothing else, how on earth could we had done worse?
With the players we had...

We improved on the previous season on many counts - more league wins, less league defeats, better goal difference, more league points and higher league position.

So I would say it is faith in BR philosophy not blind faith as you make out.

I am not saying there were some positive signs and even though we can argue if 9 pts improvement in the league is better then 2 finals and 1 league cup win, that isn't really my point.
All I am saying how RESULTWISE could we do any worse? If the Fulhams, the WBAs and Swanseas of the league is to overtake us then something extreme has to happen.
So we did almost as poorly as we could resultwise in all competitions entered, except the EL.

by **Penguins** » Thu May 23, 2013 5:30 pm

woof woof ! » Thu May 23, 2013 3:43 pm wrote:
Penguins » Thu May 23, 2013 3:18 pm wrote:
Sure, we can talk all day long about the positive signs, which there were, and the blind faith that BR is on to something, but if you look at the results only, nothing else, how on earth could we had done worse?
With the players we had...

I know where you're coming from but "with the players we had" ?. Not looking to make excuses here but whilst I accept that we could have done better I also acknowledge that it's been a period of transition and it took some time for the squad to adjust to the new manager and his plan, individually some of them didn't even begin to "turn up" until we were already a third of the way into the season. The good news was we signed what turned out to be two (so far) outstanding additions to the team and we finally began put in some impressive performances.

I've had my doubts about BR and they're not yet all dispelled but on what I've seen this season I am feeling positive/optimistic about his management so far, I am however expecting a lot more next season, failure to have a real crack at the top four will be unacceptable.

With the players we had this past season and the experience many of them have had at the highest level, there wasn't even any team close below us. And Everton imo doesn't even have that quality and experience in their squad.
I'd say spurs and us have about the same overall quality and experience in the squad as a whole, but they nick it cause the have Bale. I mean, we have more players with CL experience than they do.

by **Kukilon** » Thu May 23, 2013 7:21 pm

Good point Penguins. I have not even looked at it in that way but I would have been really furious if any of those teams below us would have overtaken us.

by **parchpea** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:01 pm

Ghosts of Rafa and to a smaller degree Dalglish still loom large at Anfield and Rodgers
has that extra pressure on him because of it.

Its a shame in some ways but its as though Benitez still has an element of control of
the managers job at Liverpool through large sections of the support and that doesn't
make it any easier for him.

Even after a year he has not been fully accepted as Liverpool manager and I hope
Benitez takes a job abroad because if he stays here everything will be a comparison
and Rodgers will always lose that battle with many at Anfield.

by **devaney** » Thu May 23, 2013 8:02 pm

Kukilon » Thu May 23, 2013 6:21 pm wrote:Good point Penguins. I have not even looked at it in that way but I would have been really furious if any of those teams below us would have overtaken us.

I agree that Penguin is making some very sensible (if a tad boring) observations in relation to the entire season. Don't quite understand what the E's and D's actually mean as I don't know what letter in the alphabet his marking system goes up to.

I prefer to look at the second half of the season improvement which is where we really gained our 9 point year on year increase which makes it even more impressive.

Next season I expect us to start playing top four challenging football from our first game and not letting the top teams get away by October.

by **Thommo's perm** » Thu May 23, 2013 10:43 pm

Last season we finished 8th and were 19 points behind spurs who finished 4th. Thats 6 wins and a draw
This season we finished 7th and were 12 points behind arsenal who finished 4th. Thats 4 wins
Progress?

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu May 23, 2013 10:46 pm

Last year we won a trophy and got to a final of another
This year we got knocked out in all cups early
Progress

Liverpool FC Forum

End of Season Assessment - how did we fare?

Who is online