Liverpool FC Forum

lakes10 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:45 pm wrote:all i know is that our manager had a meeting and said that Suarez was not getting a fair deal over pens........the very next game Suarez takes a dive and makes our manager look like a prat.

Be careful - that means you aren't a true supporter

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:47 pm wrote:

lakes10 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:45 pm wrote:all i know is that our manager had a meeting and said that Suarez was not getting a fair deal over pens........the very next game Suarez takes a dive and makes our manager look like a prat.

Be careful - that means you aren't a true supporter

lol 

Time to step up to the plate Mr.Suarez you now are our only experienced option

Kenny Kan » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:42 pm wrote:

.       You can be against Suarez's persistent attempts to con referees and at the same time criticise ref's who fail to give him legitimate calls     

But you tie the two up by excusing refs because of his reputation.

Again, that's just not true. I said that to the extent that it's humanly possible for them to do so ref's should make decisions on the basis of the laws of the game, without regard to a player's reputation or anything else that may bias their decisions. Not that we can conclusively prove it, but if they're letting Suarez's reputation colour their decision making then that's a problem. And even if they're not, but they're still getting too many decisions wrong, it's still a problem. The way to respond to that, though, isn't to dive or cheat or to make excuses for diving or cheating, but rather to point those decisions out and make the case for better decision making, as many did following the Norwich game. It really isn't necessary to arrive at a single position that means you're either 'pro' or 'anti' Suarez. We're all against cheating, and we can be absolutely clear about that whilst making the case for better refereeing. Simple as that.

I know we don't agree on much but that is a spot on post.

People seem to think its impossible to condemn Suarez for diving and yet still support him ?!

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:08 pm wrote:

Thommo's perm » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:19 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:12 pm wrote:I'm not angry - I know what the refs have done etc ?!

Me shouting and swearing about them what make a difference

What we can control as a club is the actions of our own players

Nonsense
You are perpetuating the "reputation" issue because you are singling Suarez out and denying that others have responsibility for it as well.
You could make a difference by backing our player instead of continually slagging him off

I havent denyed anything.

Im not going to back Suarez when he dives - simple as that - ill back him for everything else but not when he dives.

We have gone round full circle.
You have confirmed that you blame Suarez 100% for his unfair treatment and will not put any responsibility whatsoever on our those who are against us and are victimising one of our players for something that is rife in football.
Thanks and good luck

When is a dive a dive?

http://nigerianfutbol.blogspot.com/2012/10/when-is-dive-dive.html

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:03 pm wrote:I know we don't agree on much but that is a spot on post.

People seem to think its impossible to condemn Suarez for diving and yet still support him ?!

It's funny because though it might not seem this way, I think everyone basically agrees    All of us want to see Suarez do well at the club and nobody wants to see him dive. It's how people are making the point that is the difference. Some people feel a deep sense of injustice at the treatment he's come in for from some quarters (the FA, referees, the media, other supporters etc.) and that makes it hard, impossible perhaps, for them to openly criticise his on-pitch antics. That's not helped by the fact that those criticising him for diving also criticised him during the Evra affair. So, there is a tendency to play down the diving and emphasise the injustice.

For me, though, there is no need to conflate the two issues. You can your express disapproval of diving and associated antics without seeming to defend those actions by invoking the Evra affair, the bias of the media etc. or by asking follow up questions such as "well, if he's getting kicked and stamped on without any action by the referee, what do you expect?". That's tantamount to saying that diving is an "understandable" reaction in the circumstances, and that hardly comes comes across as an unambiguous admonition. Cheating, which is what diving is, is something I feel we should be clear about and that message is obscured if conflated with other issues like the Evra affair, which are issues in their own right.

Great post once again. Excellent

LFC2007 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:34 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:03 pm wrote:I know we don't agree on much but that is a spot on post.

People seem to think its impossible to condemn Suarez for diving and yet still support him ?!

It's funny because though it might not seem this way, I think everyone basically agrees    All of us want to see Suarez do well at the club and nobody wants to see him dive. It's how people are making the point that is the difference. Some people feel a deep sense of injustice at the treatment he's come in for from some quarters (the FA, referees, the media, other supporters etc.) and that makes it hard, impossible perhaps, for them to openly criticise his on-pitch antics. That's not helped by the fact that those criticising him for diving also criticised him during the Evra affair. So, there is a tendency to play down the diving and emphasise the injustice.

For me, though, there is no need to conflate the two issues. You can your express disapproval of diving and associated antics without seeming to defend those actions by invoking the Evra affair, the bias of the media etc. or by asking follow up questions such as "well, if he's getting kicked and stamped on without any action by the referee, what do you expect?". That's tantamount to saying that diving is an "understandable" reaction in the circumstances, and that hardly comes comes across as an unambiguous admonition. Cheating, which is what diving is, is something I feel we should be clear about and that message is obscured if conflated with other issues like the Evra affair, which are issues in their own right.

Do you agree with GYBS then that Suarez deserves everything he gets?

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:36 pm wrote:

Greavesie » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:33 pm wrote:will you two chill out? I've nothing against Benny but he's notoriously difficult to debate with, he just answers with questions all the time 

I'm certainly not going to be quiet whilst someone lectures me about supporting players when he did nothing but slag off both Carroll and Kenny last season relentlessly throughout the season. That's called being a hypocrite.

I really can't be bothered with your shight but I'm not accepting a total fabrication of the truth from a di.ck like you. Ok fukwit you say "I DID NOTHING BUT SLAG OFF BOTH CARROLL AND KENNY LAST SEASON RELENTLESSLY" which is absolute fkg nonsense so let me have some relentless examples of me slagging them both off. Relentless by the way is your behaviour on this thread which is pathetic in the extreme.

LFC2007 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:34 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:03 pm wrote:I know we don't agree on much but that is a spot on post.

People seem to think its impossible to condemn Suarez for diving and yet still support him ?!

It's funny because though it might not seem this way, I think everyone basically agrees    All of us want to see Suarez do well at the club and nobody wants to see him dive. It's how people are making the point that is the difference. Some people feel a deep sense of injustice at the treatment he's come in for from some quarters (the FA, referees, the media, other supporters etc.) and that makes it hard, impossible perhaps, for them to openly criticise his on-pitch antics. That's not helped by the fact that those criticising him for diving also criticised him during the Evra affair. So, there is a tendency to play down the diving and emphasise the injustice.

For me, though, there is no need to conflate the two issues. You can your express disapproval of diving and associated antics without seeming to defend those actions by invoking the Evra affair, the bias of the media etc. or by asking follow up questions such as "well, if he's getting kicked and stamped on without any action by the referee, what do you expect?". That's tantamount to saying that diving is an "understandable" reaction in the circumstances, and that hardly comes comes across as an unambiguous admonition. Cheating, which is what diving is, is something I feel we should be clear about and that message is obscured if conflated with other issues like the Evra affair, which are issues in their own right.

Whoa BOT2007  steady on with your presumptuous posts please. I've seen Valencia take a dive against us and got Manchester United an undeserved victory at Anfield this season while I have also seen Suarez pole-axed by Leon Barnett inside the Norwich City penalty area and given nothing. It's not up to LFC alone to eradicate diving, so until something is done by the poxy F.A and bearing in mind we have be given unjust decisions by the refs already this season, I'm in the camp 'if you can't beat them join them'. However, this diving issue is exacerbated because of Luis Suarez and his 'reputation' a reputation that stems from f.ucking purple nose down at castle grey skull. Ronaldo, Wellbeck, Valencia, Nani, Young (the specialist), Robben, Bale, Drogba the list is fecking endless and nothing has ever been done, or the hysteria whipped up but now it's suddenly  a problem. Feck off, this witchunt has stemmed from nobody else apart from Slur Alex and you've bought it hook line and sinker.

Kenny Kan » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:12 pm wrote:

LFC2007 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:34 pm wrote:

Benny The Noon » Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:03 pm wrote:I know we don't agree on much but that is a spot on post.

People seem to think its impossible to condemn Suarez for diving and yet still support him ?!

It's funny because though it might not seem this way, I think everyone basically agrees    All of us want to see Suarez do well at the club and nobody wants to see him dive. It's how people are making the point that is the difference. Some people feel a deep sense of injustice at the treatment he's come in for from some quarters (the FA, referees, the media, other supporters etc.) and that makes it hard, impossible perhaps, for them to openly criticise his on-pitch antics. That's not helped by the fact that those criticising him for diving also criticised him during the Evra affair. So, there is a tendency to play down the diving and emphasise the injustice.

For me, though, there is no need to conflate the two issues. You can your express disapproval of diving and associated antics without seeming to defend those actions by invoking the Evra affair, the bias of the media etc. or by asking follow up questions such as "well, if he's getting kicked and stamped on without any action by the referee, what do you expect?". That's tantamount to saying that diving is an "understandable" reaction in the circumstances, and that hardly comes comes across as an unambiguous admonition. Cheating, which is what diving is, is something I feel we should be clear about and that message is obscured if conflated with other issues like the Evra affair, which are issues in their own right.

Whoa BOT2007  steady on with your presumptuous posts please. I've seen Valencia take a dive against us and got Manchester United an undeserved victory at Anfield this season while I have also seen Suarez pole-axed by Leon Barnett inside the Norwich City penalty area and given nothing. It's not up to LFC alone to eradicate diving, so until something is done by the poxy F.A and bearing in mind we have be given unjust decisions by the refs already this season, I'm in the camp 'if you can't beat them join them'. However, this diving issue is exacerbated because of Luis Suarez and his 'reputation' a reputation that stems from f.ucking purple nose down at castle grey skull. Ronaldo, Wellbeck, Valencia, Nani, Young (the specialist), Robben, Bale, Drogba the list is fecking endless and nothing has ever been done, or the hysteria whipped up but now it's suddenly  a problem. Feck off, this witchunt has stemmed from nobody else apart from Slur Alex and you've bought it hook line and sinker.

Bravo!

Kenny Kan » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:12 pm wrote: It's not up to LFC alone to eradicate diving, so until something is done by the poxy F.A and bearing in mind we have be given unjust decisions by the refs already this season, I'm in the camp 'if you can't beat them join them'.

Thanks for clarifying. You've made it crystal clear what your view is. I mistakenly assumed that all Liverpool fans who had any inkling of a clue were against diving, but alas we now know there is at least one supporter in our fanbase who considers it acceptable behaviour under the circumstances.

LFC2007 » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:41 pm wrote:

Kenny Kan » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:12 pm wrote: It's not up to LFC alone to eradicate diving, so until something is done by the poxy F.A and bearing in mind we have be given unjust decisions by the refs already this season, I'm in the camp 'if you can't beat them join them'.

Thanks for clarifying. You've made it crystal clear what your view is. I mistakenly assumed that all Liverpool fans who had any inkling of a clue were against diving, but alas there is at least one supporter in our fanbase who considers it acceptable behaviour under the circumstances.

No worries, I take it you were fully against, and condemned Stevie's starfish in Istanbul then?