Liverpool FC Forum

red till i die!! wrote:if our midfield havent the inteligence to get forward in support or indeed if they need to be told this then i dont hold out much hope for them.
they sit because they have no pace to cover the ground thats required to offer support,that much has been obvious all season and it still continues while kenny sits back and appears to do nothing to change it.
maxi is an example of this and will never be nothing more than a bit part player under kenny and he struggles to even get off the bench.i dont see this changing anytime soon.shelvey is worth a shot imo and deserves a chance and he will get himself into the opposition box for a chance or support from the outside.he also has a pretty good strike on him and could prove valuable for goals.

there`s probably a lot of truth in that, how many of our midfielders are genuinely athletic? henderson is, gerrard was but i`m not sure if he is now, the likes of kuyt, spearing and adam work hard but they dont cover the ground quickly, they arent going to give many players a 10 yard start and catch them within 50 yards.
getting in the box in support of our strikers and then getting back goalside when the move breaks down for 90 minutes is hard work but if players dont support the attack the forwards just become isolated and easy to defend against. you only have to look at the amount of goals our midfield has scored to see we dont get enough of them into goalscoring positions.

red till i die!! wrote:if our midfield havent the inteligence to get forward in support or indeed if they need to be told this then i dont hold out much hope for them.
they sit because they have no pace to cover the ground thats required to offer support,that much has been obvious all season and it still continues while kenny sits back and appears to do nothing to change it.

Its not a lack of pace, because quite frankly we are not that fast when counterattacking. Our midfield is either told to stay back or just not smart enough to know when to go forward. Gerrard could do that job but atm he is used more like a third CB.

mart wrote:

red till i die!! wrote:if our midfield havent the inteligence to get forward in support or indeed if they need to be told this then i dont hold out much hope for them.
they sit because they have no pace to cover the ground thats required to offer support,that much has been obvious all season and it still continues while kenny sits back and appears to do nothing to change it.

Its not a lack of pace, because quite frankly we are not that fast when counterattacking. Our midfield is either told to stay back or just not smart enough to know when to go forward. Gerrard could do that job but atm he is used more like a third CB.

i think the lack of pace is more of an issue when our attack breaks down and the midfielders who have commited themselves have to get back goal side.
if say adam and kuyt were in the opposition box waiting for a cross but our player was caught in possession 10 yards outside the area, and then the oppopsition broke quickly could you see those 2 making up the ground and getting back goalside?
you need genuine box to box midfielders to play that role, players like terry mcdermott and bryan robson, they could run all day.

stmichael wrote:the thing is, we don't have anyone who can play on their own upfront imo. suarez will do it but it doesn't get the best out of him as he drifts out wide too often. he's not a main striker. he wasn't for ajax and he certainly isn't for uruguay.

carroll is the best option, but only if he has midfield runners going beyond him and lets face it, we hardly get any midfield players in the penalty area, let alone running beyond the strikers.

it's very rare to find players that are capable of playing that role to such a great standard in the modern day game. that's why we were lucky to have torres in his pom who was as good as i've seen at playing the role. drogba is another great exponent. shearer before him.

carroll is a poor player, therefore if he is the "best option" then we are in trouble.

His display at Wembley was the icing on the cake. Done zip, on came Kuyt, and hey presto the attack started functioning.

I sense that there are those who tolerate our poor form as its Kenny's first full season. Next season will be a different story.

D___C wrote:

stmichael wrote:the thing is, we don't have anyone who can play on their own upfront imo. suarez will do it but it doesn't get the best out of him as he drifts out wide too often. he's not a main striker. he wasn't for ajax and he certainly isn't for uruguay.

carroll is the best option, but only if he has midfield runners going beyond him and lets face it, we hardly get any midfield players in the penalty area, let alone running beyond the strikers.

it's very rare to find players that are capable of playing that role to such a great standard in the modern day game. that's why we were lucky to have torres in his pom who was as good as i've seen at playing the role. drogba is another great exponent. shearer before him.

carroll is a poor player, therefore if he is the "best option" then we are in trouble.

His display at Wembley was the icing on the cake. Done zip, on came Kuyt, and hey presto the attack started functioning.

I sense that there are those who tolerate our poor form as its Kenny's first full season. Next season will be a different story.

apart from skrtel over the past 6 weeks carroll has probably been our best player, i like the way you single out 1 game, what happened the weekend when kuyt and suarez were up front? is that what you call a functioning attack?

Andy Carroll is doing everything right, except for scoring goals and unfortunately a strikers main task is to score goals. 3 goals in one season is a very poor record.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:i think the lack of pace is more of an issue when our attack breaks down and the midfielders who have commited themselves have to get back goal side.
if say adam and kuyt were in the opposition box waiting for a cross but our player was caught in possession 10 yards outside the area, and then the oppopsition broke quickly could you see those 2 making up the ground and getting back goalside?
you need genuine box to box midfielders to play that role, players like terry mcdermott and bryan robson, they could run all day.

Well you always have to take some risks when you go forward, but its not like Kuyt and Adam are the only players on the team. Look at the way other top teams play. Pace or no pace you got to push at least some of the midfield up and you got to have someone running into the box when the crosses come. We cant afford to sit as deep as we do now if we want to start winning more matches.

Boxscarf wrote:Andy Carroll is doing everything right, except for scoring goals and unfortunately a strikers main task is to score goals. 3 goals in one season is a very poor record.

3 goals is a terrible return but to be fair to him he has been in and out of the side all season, it must be hard to build up any momentum as a front man when your constantly in and out of the side.
he might be on the bench for 3 games, start the next game, be on the bench but come on as a sub the next and then back on the bench for a couple of games.
i must admit i was surprised that dalglish didnt start him at old trafford when we played united especially considering carroll was playing his best footy since he arrived at the club at the time and again the weekend against sunderland i was surprised he didnt start him that game, especially when you looked at the state of the pitch.

mart wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:i think the lack of pace is more of an issue when our attack breaks down and the midfielders who have commited themselves have to get back goal side.
if say adam and kuyt were in the opposition box waiting for a cross but our player was caught in possession 10 yards outside the area, and then the oppopsition broke quickly could you see those 2 making up the ground and getting back goalside?
you need genuine box to box midfielders to play that role, players like terry mcdermott and bryan robson, they could run all day.

Well you always have to take some risks when you go forward, but its not like Kuyt and Adam are the only players on the team. Look at the way other top teams play. Pace or no pace you got to push at least some of the midfield up and you got to have someone running into the box when the crosses come. We cant afford to sit as deep as we do now if we want to start winning more matches.

agree totally, and not just midfielders either, fullbacks scored in 3 of our 4 european cup wins in the late 70`s and early 80`s and another fullback from the 60`s / early 70`s chris lawler scored more goals for this club than dirk kuyt has and he never took a pen.
years ago not only did our midfielders get in there to score goals our fullbacks scored loads by ghosting in at the far post.
we dont get enough numbers into the box.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:
3 goals is a terrible return but to be fair to him he has been in and out of the side all season, it must be hard to build up any momentum as a front man when your constantly in and out of the side.
he might be on the bench for 3 games, start the next game, be on the bench but come on as a sub the next and then back on the bench for a couple of games.
i must admit i was surprised that dalglish didnt start him at old trafford when we played united especially considering carroll was playing his best footy since he arrived at the club at the time and again the weekend against sunderland i was surprised he didnt start him that game, especially when you looked at the state of the pitch.

The problem with Andy is that he never looks like scoring. I never think "Carroll will score a goal today". This is in direct contrast with Bellamy and Kuyt who are pretty much in the same boat as Andy in terms of they'll play in one match and not in the next one etc.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:

D___C wrote:

stmichael wrote:the thing is, we don't have anyone who can play on their own upfront imo. suarez will do it but it doesn't get the best out of him as he drifts out wide too often. he's not a main striker. he wasn't for ajax and he certainly isn't for uruguay.

carroll is the best option, but only if he has midfield runners going beyond him and lets face it, we hardly get any midfield players in the penalty area, let alone running beyond the strikers.

it's very rare to find players that are capable of playing that role to such a great standard in the modern day game. that's why we were lucky to have torres in his pom who was as good as i've seen at playing the role. drogba is another great exponent. shearer before him.

carroll is a poor player, therefore if he is the "best option" then we are in trouble.

His display at Wembley was the icing on the cake. Done zip, on came Kuyt, and hey presto the attack started functioning.

I sense that there are those who tolerate our poor form as its Kenny's first full season. Next season will be a different story.

apart from skrtel over the past 6 weeks carroll has probably been our best player, i like the way you single out 1 game, what happened the weekend when kuyt and suarez were up front? is that what you call a functioning attack?

This has Kerrys fingerprints all over it:
The hatred and obsession with Carroll and the veiled suggestion that KK should be sacked

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb wrote:

Boxscarf wrote:Andy Carroll is doing everything right, except for scoring goals and unfortunately a strikers main task is to score goals. 3 goals in one season is a very poor record.

3 goals is a terrible return but to be fair to him he has been in and out of the side all season, it must be hard to build up any momentum as a front man when your constantly in and out of the side.
he might be on the bench for 3 games, start the next game, be on the bench but come on as a sub the next and then back on the bench for a couple of games.
i must admit i was surprised that dalglish didnt start him at old trafford when we played united especially considering carroll was playing his best footy since he arrived at the club at the time and again the weekend against sunderland i was surprised he didnt start him that game, especially when you looked at the state of the pitch.

in fairness to the lad he has only made 14 starts this year and 11 apps as a sub which has yielded 3 goals.
kuyt has played the same no of games with 17 starts and 7 sub apps which has yielded 1 goal.
suarez has played 22 games and 2 as a sub with 6 goals.
bellamy has played 21 games with 9 starts and 12 as a sub and has managed 6 goals.
so statistically bellamy is our best striker and with less starts than any of the other 3.
our problems lie in what we have playing in the midfield and the lack of support and chances they create for the front men.our strikers are decent enough imo and would have a much better conversion rate if they wernt expected to recieve the ball in our own half,run the lenght of the field and finish it.
if i was to choose who was our worst striker this year then kuyt wins it hands down and not andy.

Boxscarf wrote:Andy Carroll is doing everything right, except for scoring goals and unfortunately a strikers main task is to score goals. 3 goals in one season is a very poor record.

Sorry but when did constantly being in the wrong place mean that a striker was doing everything right? Carroll is quite simply a terrible striker, in the same way that Adam is a terrible midfielder. Downing is showing some promise and Henderson was always a player for the future who should not be being played as much as he is.


I predict Kenny will be gone in the summer although he should be thanked for steadying the ship, we need to spend at least £100 million on a top notch striker and 2 good defenders plus if we could get another experienced striker in as cover then that would be great. That should be enough to get us 4th place next year but the key thing is a new manager and perhaps it's time to give Rafa another chance. I now see that what i used to criticise him for was really the fault of Purslow and the tw1t and tw@t.

heimdall wrote:

Boxscarf wrote:Andy Carroll is doing everything right, except for scoring goals and unfortunately a strikers main task is to score goals. 3 goals in one season is a very poor record.

Sorry but when did constantly being in the wrong place mean that a striker was doing everything right? Carroll is quite simply a terrible striker, in the same way that Adam is a terrible midfielder. Downing is showing some promise and Henderson was always a player for the future who should not be being played as much as he is.


I predict Kenny will be gone in the summer although he should be thanked for steadying the ship, we need to spend at least £100 million on a top notch striker and 2 good defenders plus if we could get another experienced striker in as cover then that would be great. That should be enough to get us 4th place next year but the key thing is a new manager and perhaps it's time to give Rafa another chance. I now see that what i used to criticise him for was really the fault of Purslow and the tw1t and tw@t.

Good to see you back Heimdall 

Why do we need 2 defenders though? I reckon the defense is fine, it's the midfield and attack that needs sorting. The main problem with the team is that we have ZERO creativity and that should be addressed, as well as the fact that we don't have a finisher.
Hopefully, next season we see a team similar to this:

GK - Reina, Jones
DL - Enrique, Robinson
DR - Johnson, Flanagan
CB - Agger, Skrtel, Coates, Kelly
DM - M'Villa, Lucas
MC - Gerrard, Javi Martinez, Shelvey,
LW - Patricio Rodriguez, Joe Cole, Downing
RW - Kuyt, Sterling, Suso
ST - Suarez, De Jong, Bellamy, Carroll,

Get rid of Darby, Aurelio, Maxi, Adam, Spearing, Doni, Aquilani, and Pacheco.
I'm hoping Carragher peacefully retires, and I still think Joe Cole will come good. He is technically superior to most English players and can't do any worse than Downing? Henderson should be sent on loan to be honest. He looks out of his depth.
Buy Rodriguez, Martinez, M'Villa and Luuk De Jong.
Manchester Utd have been linked with Rodriguez and I will freak out if he does join them. He is probably the best dribbler I've seen since Messi and Ronaldo. No joke!

maypaxvobiscum wrote:

heimdall wrote:

Boxscarf wrote:Andy Carroll is doing everything right, except for scoring goals and unfortunately a strikers main task is to score goals. 3 goals in one season is a very poor record.

Sorry but when did constantly being in the wrong place mean that a striker was doing everything right? Carroll is quite simply a terrible striker, in the same way that Adam is a terrible midfielder. Downing is showing some promise and Henderson was always a player for the future who should not be being played as much as he is.


I predict Kenny will be gone in the summer although he should be thanked for steadying the ship, we need to spend at least £100 million on a top notch striker and 2 good defenders plus if we could get another experienced striker in as cover then that would be great. That should be enough to get us 4th place next year but the key thing is a new manager and perhaps it's time to give Rafa another chance. I now see that what i used to criticise him for was really the fault of Purslow and the tw1t and tw@t.

Good to see you back Heimdall 

Why do we need 2 defenders though? I reckon the defense is fine, it's the midfield and attack that needs sorting. The main problem with the team is that we have ZERO creativity and that should be addressed, as well as the fact that we don't have a finisher.
Hopefully, next season we see a team similar to this:

GK - Reina, Jones
DL - Enrique, Robinson
DR - Johnson, Flanagan
CB - Agger, Skrtel, Coates, Kelly
DM - M'Villa, Lucas
MC - Gerrard, Javi Martinez, Shelvey,
LW - Patricio Rodriguez, Joe Cole, Downing
RW - Kuyt, Sterling, Suso
ST - Suarez, De Jong, Bellamy, Carroll,

Get rid of Darby, Aurelio, Maxi, Adam, Spearing, Doni, Aquilani, and Pacheco.
I'm hoping Carragher peacefully retires, and I still think Joe Cole will come good. He is technically superior to most English players and can't do any worse than Downing? Henderson should be sent on loan to be honest. He looks out of his depth.
Buy Rodriguez, Martinez, M'Villa and Luuk De Jong.
Manchester Utd have been linked with Rodriguez and I will freak out if he does join them. He is probably the best dribbler I've seen since Messi and Ronaldo. No joke!

Thanks and my bad, I meant midfielders, defence and goalkeeping are our only 2 strong areas at the moment. Having said that we aren't to far away but as much as I love Kenny, and I really do, we need a more dynamic and savy manager, not quite sure who though although Rafa with a decent transfer kitty could be very interesting. We were certainly a far better team under him than we have been since, with the exception of his first and last year in charge.