Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:59 pm

Would rafa would have done as well at Fulham?

Would rafa would have done as well with the Swiss national team.

The answer is nobody knows, so pulling out these stats are useless..

Rafa was brilliant at Valencia but his previous posts where not so good, in fact average at best.

But lets stop looking back and start looking forward... The biggest problem at our club is not Roy Hodgson, its the owners and hopefully after this summer there will be willing buyers in place, not at the 800 million mark but one set by the banks who, lets be honest are running us now.

Again - this has nothing to do with RoyHodgson - All we can hope is that the team on the pitch play better this year than last, and that anyone he brings in will do better than some of the players we played last year because of the terrible injuries we had.

I have said many times (which noone ever seems to comment on) - I dont blame Rafa for the off field things, or even the fact the squad he put together was not good enough, because he could not effect these things. The problem I had with Rafa was the things he could effect ie the teams he picked, the tactics he chose, the subs he made, playing Lucas instead of Gerrard in the middle, Playing Kuyt on the wing.

If Hodgson addresses these things, he will do better.

Hopefully someone else is trying to flog the club and soeone else will give Rou his transfer budget, but its no good moaning about it.. just spend it the best you can

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:00 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:Would rafa would have done as well at Fulham?

Would rafa would have done as well with the Swiss national team.

The answer is nobody knows, so pulling out these stats are useless..

Rafa was brilliant at Valencia but his previous posts where not so good, in fact average at best.

But lets stop looking back and start looking forward... The biggest problem at our club is not Roy Hodgson, its the owners and hopefully after this summer there will be willing buyers in place, not at the 800 million mark but one set by the banks who, lets be honest are running us now.

Again - this has nothing to do with RoyHodgson - All we can hope is that the team on the pitch play better this year than last, and that anyone he brings in will do better than some of the players we played last year because of the terrible injuries we had.

I have said many times (which noone ever seems to comment on) - I dont blame Rafa for the off field things, or even the fact the squad he put together was not good enough, because he could not effect these things. The problem I had with Rafa was the things he could effect ie the teams he picked, the tactics he chose, the subs he made, playing Lucas instead of Gerrard in the middle, Playing Kuyt on the wing.

If Hodgson addresses these things, he will do better.

Hopefully someone else is trying to flog the club and soeone else will give Rou his transfer budget, but its no good moaning about it.. just spend it the best you can

Why are the stats useless ? They show his managerial record over the last 20 years and its one that has some people concerned .

by **lakes10** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:11 pm

why are we still talking about Rafa?

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:12 pm

Wasnt - was talking about Hodgson

by **Redman in wales** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:53 pm

does it really matter what his record was like at an inferior club though?

If Rafa/Jose/Arsene managed Middlesborough i'm sure their win percentage would drop.

If Roy had managed Barca / Milan / Inter (when they weren't in the doldrums) I'm sure his win percentage would be higher.

By the same token, Chris Houghton has an excellent win percentage as manager - doesn't mean we should go to him, as you have to take into account he manages Newcastle.

When Princess Fergie finally leaves old trafford, if Jose is indisposed, or for what ever reason doesn't get offered / take the job, the current 2nd and 3rd favourites are David Moyes and Martin O'Neill. - How many leagues has moyes won? How successful has he been in the champions league? - likewise for MON. Past win percentage records dont really mean a thing as long as the manager has "done well" at a club

TBH it doesn't much matter about previous win ratios if he's only managed inferior clubs. - For me all that matters is how he will perform at OUR club. And no, we can't use his previous records as any sort of barometer of how he will do here as the clubs are completely different.

The thing I've noticed from his managerial record is that with the exception of one season at Blackburn, he improved the general league position and the stature of every club he managed

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:59 pm

Guess we will have to agree to disagree and see what happens then

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:03 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Guess we will have to agree to disagree and see what happens then

that would be a great idea,but you keep telling everyone how :censored:

his record is.. lets leave it alone

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:05 pm

Redman in wales wrote:does it really matter what his record was like at an inferior club though?

If Rafa/Jose/Arsene managed Middlesborough i'm sure their win percentage would drop.

If Roy had managed Barca / Milan / Inter (when they weren't in the doldrums) I'm sure his win percentage would be higher.

By the same token, Chris Houghton has an excellent win percentage as manager - doesn't mean we should go to him, as you have to take into account he manages Newcastle.

When Princess Fergie finally leaves old trafford, if Jose is indisposed, or for what ever reason doesn't get offered / take the job, the current 2nd and 3rd favourites are David Moyes and Martin O'Neill. - How many leagues has moyes won? How successful has he been in the champions league? - likewise for MON. Past win percentage records dont really mean a thing as long as the manager has "done well" at a club

TBH it doesn't much matter about previous win ratios if he's only managed inferior clubs. - For me all that matters is how he will perform at OUR club. And no, we can't use his previous records as any sort of barometer of how he will do here as the clubs are completely different.

The thing I've noticed from his managerial record is that with the exception of one season at Blackburn, he improved the general league position and the stature of every club he managed

Good post - totally agree :buttrock

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:10 pm

Ola Mr Benitez wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Guess we will have to agree to disagree and see what happens then

that would be a great idea,but you keep telling everyone how his record is.. lets leave it alone

Im sorry but im fully entitled to worry about the credentials of our new manager and the belief i dont think he is good enough

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:17 pm

really - i hadnt noticed

ok - im leaving this well alone now -

by **Ciggy** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:33 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Im sorry but im fully entitled to worry about the credentials of our new manager and the belief i dont think he is good enough

I agree.

by **dundreamin** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:42 pm

for Fooksake give Hodgson a chance. Some right pessimistic people here. Tell all the moaners that next season WILL be better than the last one. And quoting Rafa it's guaranteed just like he said we would qualify for the CL.

by **bigmick** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:44 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:
Ola Mr Benitez wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Guess we will have to agree to disagree and see what happens then

that would be a great idea,but you keep telling everyone how his record is.. lets leave it alone

Im sorry but im fully entitled to worry about the credentials of our new manager and the belief i dont think he is good enough

See this would be all well and good, all the more credible if it wasn't so obviously directly linked to the previous management. Half of you lot said Mourinho wasn't up to it FFS until he'd joined Madrid. It wasn't just that you didn't like his coat, he was arrogant, he was egotistical etc etc, it was also that he'd only ever taken over at clubs at which it was laid out on a plate for him, only ever done well when he could spend 6 billion quid a year etc etc.

Lets face it, some people were so much in love with the previous management that it really wouldn't have mattered who came in, they wouldn't have been good enough. We've already had people saying today that if we do improve it's nothing to do with Roy, no doubt the same people who'll say he's a disaster if we don't. He's getting the blame because some of our star players want away due to lack of investment in the team/lack of Champions League football, anybody we are linked with "just goes to show the calibre of player" we are going to be signing. This from the same people who dismissed everything as speck-you-lay-shun ifit didn't suit their agenda.

I've been honest and said that Hodgson wasn't my first choice, O'Neill was (obviously once Mourinho was unavailable). I've also put it out there, put my neck on the block and said I fancy Hodgson to improve us. I had years of asking people what is your minimum standard, getting no answer and then discovering our minimum standard was in fact wherever we finished up. None of that from me, Hodgson has to improve us from what he took over from, otherwise he's failed (obviously assuming he has somewhere near the same level of squad.

It makes me nervous to hear he is so much into zonal marking. Not because I don't believe in the system, I'm just not sure I trust our players to do it after watching us over the last few seasons. We've had patches where we've done it well, and patches where we've been awful. I'm nervous about the Brian Ruiz stories. For reasons I won't go into here I'm not sure signing strikers out of the Dutch league is always wise. I'm nervous but I trust our fella, I think he'll do well.

Why can't some of the dissenters (it doesn't apply to all) just be honest and admit their dislike of Roy is nothing short of prejudice based entirely around their love for previous management? They'll deny it to the hilt, but they know it's true.

by **Thommo's perm** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:58 pm

bigmick wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:
Ola Mr Benitez wrote:
Benny The Noon wrote:Guess we will have to agree to disagree and see what happens then

that would be a great idea,but you keep telling everyone how his record is.. lets leave it alone

Im sorry but im fully entitled to worry about the credentials of our new manager and the belief i dont think he is good enough

See this would be all well and good, all the more credible if it wasn't so obviously directly linked to the previous management. Half of you lot said Mourinho wasn't up to it FFS until he'd joined Madrid. It wasn't just that you didn't like his coat, he was arrogant, he was egotistical etc etc, it was also that he'd only ever taken over at clubs at which it was laid out on a plate for him, only ever done well when he could spend 6 billion quid a year etc etc.

Lets face it, some people were so much in love with the previous management that it really wouldn't have mattered who came in, they wouldn't have been good enough. We've already had people saying today that if we do improve it's nothing to do with Roy, no doubt the same people who'll say he's a disaster if we don't. He's getting the blame because some of our star players want away due to lack of investment in the team/lack of Champions League football, anybody we are linked with "just goes to show the calibre of player" we are going to be signing. This from the same people who dismissed everything as speck-you-lay-shun ifit didn't suit their agenda.

I've been honest and said that Hodgson wasn't my first choice, O'Neill was (obviously once Mourinho was unavailable). I've also put it out there, put my neck on the block and said I fancy Hodgson to improve us. I had years of asking people what is your minimum standard, getting no answer and then discovering our minimum standard was in fact wherever we finished up. None of that from me, Hodgson has to improve us from what he took over from, otherwise he's failed (obviously assuming he has somewhere near the same level of squad.

It makes me nervous to hear he is so much into zonal marking. Not because I don't believe in the system, I'm just not sure I trust our players to do it after watching us over the last few seasons. We've had patches where we've done it well, and patches where we've been awful. I'm nervous about the Brian Ruiz stories. For reasons I won't go into here I'm not sure signing strikers out of the Dutch league is always wise. I'm nervous but I trust our fella, I think he'll do well.

Why can't some of the dissenters (it doesn't apply to all) just be honest and admit their dislike of Roy is nothing short of prejudice based entirely around their love for previous management? They'll deny it to the hilt, but they know it's true.

The only reason I like him is because hes not Rafa

by **Benny The Noon** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:59 pm

My worries over Hodgson have nothing at all to do with who the previous manager was - yes i would of liked Rafa to stay but it wasnt to be and he has left and when he did leave i wanted a step up in management level - someone to take us up to the next level , someone who could win the title that he just couldnt get - a top class manager , someone who would be able to attract the top players , attract top owners for us not someone imo who has been around for 30 years and imo has only done a decent job with small teams or in minor leagues . I would off taken Maureen every single day of the week over Hodgson -,same would of taken Daggers, Rijkaard,Van Gael even the Benfica manager , Deschamp , Lippi , even O Neill and even Moyes over Hodgson . I just dont rate Hodgson as the manager to take us to the next level - simple as that - yes he has done well at struggling clubs and saved them from relegation but i wanted a top tree manager . Hodgson imo is in because he is a nice guy and the flavour of the month and a person the owners believe will not kick up any fuss with no money or big players going . I do not see us in a million years taking the next step as a club that we need to take and im worried about what the future holds - im sorry but i dont see the positives for the future of our club with these owners and this manager .

he will get my support until the day he leaves because he is our manager and i will back him because he is manager but im sorry im just not looking forward to this season - i hope to hell im totally wrong but at this moment in time i just cant see us taking any steps forward .

Just to clarify my worries over Hodgson and my doubts about him have nothing to do with previous manager .

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