Liverpool FC Forum

by **tubby** » Wed May 19, 2010 9:42 pm

I don't think Rafa wanted to get rid off him, didn't Crouch turn down a new contract? I think with Crouch it came down to playing time and with our 1 striker system it was always going to be hard for him.

by **Sir Roger** » Wed May 19, 2010 9:55 pm

bavlondon wrote:I don't think Rafa wanted to get rid off him, didn't Crouch turn down a new contract? I think with Crouch it came down to playing time and with our 1 striker system it was always going to be hard for him.

Then I was right
He is sh'ite
:;):

by **kazza** » Wed May 19, 2010 9:57 pm

andy_g wrote:so in the 6 years that really matter they have spent gross 10 million more than us but have had to sell more to achieve that. whichever way you want to interpret the figures there isn't much in it.

But we have outperformed them in all six seasons bar one (the last one) yet they spent as much as us. Or in other words the law of averages :;):

has caught up with us.

As Emerald said, they FINALLY only made CL football having spent as much as us for the last six years because we had a nightmare season. They were lucky this year and I do not think it will happen next year. They may not even make CL football depending on who they are drawn against.

by **Sir Roger** » Wed May 19, 2010 10:15 pm

kazza wrote:
andy_g wrote:so in the 6 years that really matter they have spent gross 10 million more than us but have had to sell more to achieve that. whichever way you want to interpret the figures there isn't much in it.

But we have outperformed them in all six seasons bar one (the last one) yet they spent as much as us. Or in other words the law of averages has caught up with us.

As Emerald said, they FINALLY only made CL football having spent as much as us for the last six years because we had a nightmare season. They were lucky this year and I do not think it will happen next year. They may not even make CL football depending on who they are drawn against.

They were lucky and we were sh'it: a lethal combination
Since 2005 they have come 5th, 5th, 11th, 8th and now 4th.
So our 7th is not so bad after all

by **LFC2007** » Wed May 19, 2010 10:25 pm

That's why it's better to look at it chronologically as you'd see that we had a much better team than Spurs in 2004 and made it even better in the following three seasons (then it gradually turned pear-shaped) and that is why we shouldn't merely expect to match or do marginally better than Spurs but to have aspirations commensurate with the level of the squad before each season. Gross and net spend aggregates are only really useful in giving a snapshot over a relatively short time period of the level of spending of a club. Pointless basing your entire argument on a gross/net spend figure. Lazy as well I think. It's easier just to quote a substantial figure than it is to assess what opportunity the manager actually had season on season to improve the squad; whether he made the most of those opportunities or not. You can only do that by looking at the relevant context.

by **Sir Roger** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:07 pm

LFC2007 wrote:That's why it's better to look at it chronologically as you'd see that we had a much better team than Spurs in 2004 and made it even better in the following three seasons (then it gradually turned pear-shaped) and that is why we shouldn't merely expect to match or do marginally better than Spurs but to have aspirations commensurate with the level of the squad before each season. Gross and net spend aggregates are only really useful in giving a snapshot over a relatively short time period of the level of spending of a club. Pointless basing your entire argument on a gross/net spend figure. Lazy as well I think. It's easier just to quote a substantial figure than it is to assess what opportunity the manager actually had season on season to improve the squad; whether he made the most of those opportunities or not. You can only do that by looking at the relevant context.

Im not really arsed about spend to be honest. If a players good hes worth it.
Im more interested in the manner which we portray ourselves and how others perceive us. This is dependant on many subtle and not so subtle things such as the style of play and our players attitude throughout the season. Not scientific, but real nonetheless. This has been the worse thing about the season for me. Our utter, impotent uselessness and embarrassing displays against sh'ite.
If the man who didnt inspire us this time doesnt inspire us next time what will happen then?

by **LFC2007** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:13 pm

Sir Roger wrote:Im not really arsed about spend to be honest. If a players good hes worth it.
Im more interested in the manner which we portray ourselves and how others perceive us. This is dependant on many subtle and not so subtle things such as the style of play and our players attitude throughout the season. Not scientific, but real nonetheless. This has been the worse thing about the season for me. Our utter, impotent uselessness and embarrassing displays against sh'ite.
If the man who didnt inspire us this time doesnt inspire us next time what will happen then?

Spot on. We need to focus on portraying ourselves better in order to be better perceived by others

by **Sir Roger** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:27 pm

LFC2007 wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:Im not really arsed about spend to be honest. If a players good hes worth it.
Im more interested in the manner which we portray ourselves and how others perceive us. This is dependant on many subtle and not so subtle things such as the style of play and our players attitude throughout the season. Not scientific, but real nonetheless. This has been the worse thing about the season for me. Our utter, impotent uselessness and embarrassing displays against sh'ite.
If the man who didnt inspire us this time doesnt inspire us next time what will happen then?

Spot on. We need to focus on portraying ourselves better in order to be better perceived by others

We were once seen as invincible. We won many games before the kick off because of the perception that the opposition had of us. We werent a laughing stock and didnt wash our dirty linen in public. We certainly didnt have a manager who enjoys playing games in front of the media. We were mighty and proud. I would like a return to that type of mentality, philosophy and ethos.
What happened last season took us further away than ever and I hope that something happens which puts us back on course to the type of portrayal we used to have

by **mart** » Wed May 19, 2010 11:38 pm

Sir Roger wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:Im not really arsed about spend to be honest. If a players good hes worth it.
Im more interested in the manner which we portray ourselves and how others perceive us. This is dependant on many subtle and not so subtle things such as the style of play and our players attitude throughout the season. Not scientific, but real nonetheless. This has been the worse thing about the season for me. Our utter, impotent uselessness and embarrassing displays against sh'ite.
If the man who didnt inspire us this time doesnt inspire us next time what will happen then?

Spot on. We need to focus on portraying ourselves better in order to be better perceived by others

We were once seen as invincible. We won many games before the kick off because of the perception that the opposition had of us. We werent a laughing stock and didnt wash our dirty linen in public. We certainly didnt have a manager who enjoys playing games in front of the media. We were mighty and proud. I would like a return to that type of mentality, philosophy and ethos.
What happened last season took us further away than ever and I hope that something happens which puts us back on course to the type of portrayal we used to have

That was over 20 years ago. Start accepting that football has changed, and look forward instead. We have fallen far behind the top clubs thinking we could live on our glorious past.

by **LFC2007** » Thu May 20, 2010 12:02 am

Sir Roger wrote:We were once seen as invincible. We won many games before the kick off because of the perception that the opposition had of us. We werent a laughing stock and didnt wash our dirty linen in public. We certainly didnt have a manager who enjoys playing games in front of the media. We were mighty and proud. I would like a return to that type of mentality, philosophy and ethos.
What happened last season took us further away than ever and I hope that something happens which puts us back on course to the type of portrayal we used to have

OK, you want us to live up to our historic reputation. We've gone a bit soft, opponents no longer fear us as they once used to and we need to restore that to our... armoury. That's fair enough I suppose. Last season I remember the many opposition managers who would comment after the game on how deserving their team were and I felt the discord with our reputation too. You don't expect to see such insipid performances away to Wigan or Wolves or Portsmouth or Sunderland, where you as a biased supporter wouldn't even quarrel with the outcome. Time and again we were exposed as a distinctly average, uninspiring team and in that sense, yes, we were embarrassing and it felt like a stain on our reputation.

by **Sir Roger** » Thu May 20, 2010 9:18 am

mart wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:
LFC2007 wrote:
Sir Roger wrote:Im not really arsed about spend to be honest. If a players good hes worth it.
Im more interested in the manner which we portray ourselves and how others perceive us. This is dependant on many subtle and not so subtle things such as the style of play and our players attitude throughout the season. Not scientific, but real nonetheless. This has been the worse thing about the season for me. Our utter, impotent uselessness and embarrassing displays against sh'ite.
If the man who didnt inspire us this time doesnt inspire us next time what will happen then?

Spot on. We need to focus on portraying ourselves better in order to be better perceived by others

We were once seen as invincible. We won many games before the kick off because of the perception that the opposition had of us. We werent a laughing stock and didnt wash our dirty linen in public. We certainly didnt have a manager who enjoys playing games in front of the media. We were mighty and proud. I would like a return to that type of mentality, philosophy and ethos.
What happened last season took us further away than ever and I hope that something happens which puts us back on course to the type of portrayal we used to have

That was over 20 years ago. Start accepting that football has changed, and look forward instead. We have fallen far behind the top clubs thinking we could live on our glorious past.

I know it was over 20 years ago. I was there
I accept that football has changed and I am looking forward. But what I see doesnt inspire me. I see owners who only care about squeezing whatever they can from us and various officers they have appointed who are spinning and going missing in equal measures. I see a manager who has overseen the worst capitulation in my years of watching LFC, blaming everything and everyone except himself. I have seen outstanding, ordinary and cr'ap players wearing the red jersey as if it was a practice top from JJB. I see fans arguing constantly about whether or not you are anti-club if you even dare to question, never mind criticise those who make the decisions that have brought about this situation.
I admit that at one time I did live on our glorious past. I make no excuses for that. To be a liverpudlian in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, was to be touched by the Gods and I Fu*king milked it for all it was worth. Then in the decline of the 90s, I was still there telling anyone who would listen that we need to be careful not to think it was our divine right to win everything. I was there when we won the treble of cups, behind the goal in Cardiff where Owen squeezed it past "safe hands" and believed that we "might" be heading to the top again. Not because of our past but because we had a bright future with great young players and a style of play based on attacking football.
Then came the Rafa years, starting with a miracle and ended up a living nightmare.
I was, am, and always will be a red, no matter whos in charge or what division we are in and I do not believe we will return to the way we were. Those days are gone forever.
But, I believe we can start looking at the past to help us in the future. Rafa and his team would do well to watch some tapes of the glory days of the "Red Machine" for inspiration and guidance of what it takes to become mighty.
Purple nose did, and look where it got him

by **stmichael** » Thu May 20, 2010 1:10 pm

there are now reports that turan has agreed terms with spurs.

by **Redman in wales** » Thu May 20, 2010 2:34 pm

stmichael wrote:there are now reports that turan has agreed terms with spurs.

yup.

this was one of my main points of the thread, but it didnt come across very well.

- The fact that our "rumoured" targets for this summer are now being poached by spurs as they can offer champions league football and we cant. So we cant get our number 1 targets cause of money or our number 2 targets casue they want champions league football, so sign with spurs etc

I dont think spurs will make an impression on the champions league net season, and unless they buy well, they could struggle to keep the form of this season.

A few people have aluded to the fact that spurs are only in the top 4 because we had a bad season. Well our ownership aint gonna change in the next 3 months so whats to stop us having another bad season? - I mean Rafa doesn't have the money to spend. The transfer dealings were so poor last season that we went from 2nd to 7th in one season. Injurys didnt help, no, but thats because rafa hasnt had the money to strengthen properly, and what he has spent hasn't worked out well so far.

Spurs have EVERY chance of finishing above us next season. They have the money to strength... we dont.

by **Redman in wales** » Thu May 20, 2010 2:43 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
lakes10 wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Let's be honest about Spurs here - they are big spenders and they are bottlers year after year. It's only in the season of absolute nightmares for us that they get the chance to actually get in the top four, because if we don't have a bad season, then they have no hope of a top four spot. Simple as that, really.

if things dont change at the club mate i can not see how we can have a good season.

Who's fault is that?

Doesn't matter who's fault it is.

Rafa's, the owners, Rafa and the owners - they're all opinions.

What we know as fact is that Rafa has not been given additional funds in the transfer market and has had to sell to buy. His purchases last year did not help the team for one reason or another, and we slid from 2nd to 7th.

This summer Rafa has been given no additional funds to spend, and hs to sell to buy. As this is the same situation as last year regardless of who's fault it is - surely we could have another bad season, and spurs could finish above us as they have the money to strengthen?

by **bigmick** » Thu May 20, 2010 3:45 pm

Does anybody think we will finish above Spurs next season? Regardless of who's fault it will be, beachballs, hits on the woodwork, dodgy refs, Gerrard not playing as well every game as he did against West Ham in the cup final a few seasons back, fecking Parry/Purslow :angry:

, the owners, the pitches etc etc etc etc. Putting all of that aside for a second, will we finish above Spurs next season with Rafa still as the manager?

If the answer is NO, is that it then, that's all we can expect from now on? If it's YES, how come, could you explain it to me?

I think with Rafa in charge, we will finish 6th next season.

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