Liverpool FC Forum

[bigmick]

As the rotation debate has meandered along and gone through various peaks and troughs, one thing has become clear and is pretty much universally accepted I think.

That is, it's not just the number of changes to the team which is important, it's the nature of them. Switching Aurelio and Dossena for instance, though a step backwards in my opinion is obviously not the same in terms of impact as switching Torres and N'Gog.

So what of today? Only one switch from the last game so not syling? Well, we decided to play a different formation from the one we have settled into. We decided to change the position the captain has been playing in, and been playing quite well in too. We decided to sit down a fella who had just scored his first goal, and to give both Alonso and Torres new partners.

Right decision or wrong decision, and did we just slightly get out of jail? What do you reckon, was it a worrying glimpse of an urge to tinker which simply cannot be surpressed, despite the light clearly being seen? Are we going to give ourselves a shot at the title or not?

Aside from what anyone thinks on that score, I think most would agree we are into the guts of the campaign now. Chelsea and Man Utd have settled down and are in the mode where a draw away at West Ham would see Zola dancing on the touchline. We absolutely must try and keep ourselves in the rattle right now, we are out of the blocks and there is a good early pace on. No time for fecking up, and I would venture fecking about either.

[Yooj Bigullz]

It baffles me why so many managers opt to go with one striker instead of two, i find it so negative.

[account deleted by request]

In hindsight maybe it was one change too many, but before the game I thought it was a good team and that the inclusion of Masch was a necessary move to control Elano and the fast breaking Citeh forwardline.   

Once Citeh had a player sent off, we obviously controlled the game against 10 men, but before that Citeh had looked very dangerous on the break, and Masch played more than a small part in keeping Citeh out. In fact I was expecting Alonso rather than Masch to go off (Alonso had just received THAT tackle admittedly).

No I won't be blaming Rafa for this one....... even if we had lost!

[metalhead]

I thought he got it wrong with his team selection. He shouldn't have dropped keane for instance, because his confidence is high after scoring and he brings more than gerrard behind torres.

He should have kept the same side.

[metalhead]

In hindsight maybe it was one change too many, but before the game I thought it was a good team and that the inclusion of Masch was a necessary move to control Elano and the fast breaking Citeh forwardline.   

Once Citeh had a player sent off, we obviously controlled the game against 10 men, but before that Citeh had looked very dangerous on the break, and Masch played more than a small part in keeping Citeh out. In fact I was expecting Alonso rather than Masch to go off (Alonso had just received THAT tackle admittedly).

No I won't be blaming Rafa for this one....... even if we had lost!

I thought we were so much better in the second half, even before the sending off, Robbie Keane made a massive difference today, he did really, added alot to our attack.

It would be also harsh if he took out alonso, he had a really good game in the second half, I thought he deserved to stay to see where the game ends. Again his passing was fantastic.

[Emerald Red]

We weren't lucky. We never just got out of jail. I don't care what anyone says either way, we were always the better team. It was just a few suicidal decisions that allowed them to get ahead of us on the score sheet, when in reality, they were practically second best in most area's all over the pitch. Two holding players were useless after they scored the first goal. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Kuyt converted his first chance to take us 1-0 up. Would Mash have remained on the pitch? Most certainly so. Rafa's game plan was to nullify their threat from the midfield, and then hit them on a counter, the mantra being hold what we've got and not concede by having a very compact midfield. Rafa did have an obvious contingency plan, as he removed Mash in the second half. We could have won this game by more than what we did. The question is would it have made any difference had we started with the same team that we ended with? I think not. As I said, it was individual errors that cost us the goals, not the system.

As for the changes, should Keane have been dropped? Probably not. It baffled me to see those three in the midfield, but at the end of the day, it all worked itself out.

[account deleted by request]

In hindsight maybe it was one change too many, but before the game I thought it was a good team and that the inclusion of Masch was a necessary move to control Elano and the fast breaking Citeh forwardline.   

Once Citeh had a player sent off, we obviously controlled the game against 10 men, but before that Citeh had looked very dangerous on the break, and Masch played more than a small part in keeping Citeh out. In fact I was expecting Alonso rather than Masch to go off (Alonso had just received THAT tackle admittedly).

No I won't be blaming Rafa for this one....... even if we had lost!

I thought we were so much better in the second half, even before the sending off, Robbie Keane made a massive difference today, he did really, added alot to our attack.

It would be also harsh if he took out alonso, he had a really good game in the second half, I thought he deserved to stay to see where the game ends. Again his passing was fantastic.

I honestly didn't see Keane do much at all mate. I thought we had control once the Citeh player got sent off and we would probably have won whether Rafa had made changes or not.

Obviously another forward on for a midfielder gave us more options up front, but we were already back in the game BEFORE the subs came on.

Infact Keane almost cost us the winner, and did cost Torres his hatrick. How many goals is that now that Keane owes Torres ..... at least 2!

[metalhead]

lol, keane gave torres the perfect opportunity to make it a hattrick but he missed it

drop torres, he missed a sitter  

[tubby]

Hes joint top scorer now on 5 with Zaki. I reckon if stays injury free for most of the season he will get the golden boot.

[Sabre]

I haven't read any of the answers of this thread as a little exam. I will read other opinions just after posting.

If I understand correctly the stances of many posters, today, in raw numbers, we wouldn't have seen a lot of rotation. But, we saw dropped a player who scored last game, there was a significant change of role and position of Gerrard with the inclussion of Mascherano, and that's the kind of thing it shouldn't be done.

Also, it was worth to mention than when it came the obvious time of removing a midfielder with one man more, the choice was Mascherano. If we attend to minutes played in the last matches Alonso was the more likely option, but it seems Rafa thought Xabi's vision would be more needed rather than resting a player. In that sense we could say Rafa has seen the light.

However, the key of the victory or the defeat, isn't based on these changes. I don't think the concentration error of Arbeloa had to do with any of those changes.

Now, I'll read your opinions.

[JC_81]

I think the tactic of dropping Keane for what Benitez sees as difficult away fixtures in favour of playing two holding midfielders, is something we will see more of this season.  He did it away to Marseille too.

The goals we conceded today were defensive mistakes that got punished, simple as that.  We were poor first half, but that's not necessarily because of the system.  In fact we played better in the second half even before Keane was introduced and the system changed. 

I don't have a problem with Benitez wanting to keep certain games tight with the two holding players and then try to be a bit more expansive later in the game to nick it, but it has to be done in the right games.  By that I mean maybe at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge or the Emirates.  Marseille and Man City were paid too much respect in both those games by the way we set out, they are teams that we should not be afraid of playing two up top against and allowing the game to be open.  We almost paid the price in both of these games and we won't keep getting away with it.

I also think it's madness to be moving Gerrard out of the middle when he's playing so well there, but the problem is fitting Mascherano, Alonso and Gerrard into a winning system.  Gerrard on the right?  Gerrard between the lines?  Keep Mascherano on the bench until Alonso's form dips?  The honest answer is I don't know.  The problem is I don't think Benitez knows either and he may well tinker with this until he decides.

[metalhead]

But, we saw dropped a player who scored last game, there was a significant change of role and position of Gerrard with the inclussion of Mascherano, and that's the kind of thing it shouldn't be done.

[Sabre]

Metalhead, I was trying to put myself in the skin of an anti styler I don't consider this styling as relevant as other mates, so far.

I honestly think that if Gerrard couldn't shine a lot  was because the good work of the opposition rather than being unfamiliar with the task. In fact, bar some minutes in the first half I don't consider the captains' game bad. At some points of the game Manchester City defended very well. Until the penalty that should have given to us, I saw them doing a good defensive work and knowing to counter. It would have been a hard game for anyone playing the role of Gerrard today, no matter if you chosed Keane or Berbatov for it.

John Craig points out

I think the tactic of dropping Keane for what Benitez sees as difficult away fixtures in favour of playing two holding midfielders, is something we will see more of this season.  He did it away to Marseille too

I think we'll see it in more away games too.

I also wonder a question for debate, should Rafa had decided to use Gerrard on the right instead of Kuyt, and Keane-Torres upfront, would that have been styling because Gerrard's change of role, or just a necessary change because Kuyt was sat down?

[metalhead]

Metalhead, I was trying to put myself in the skin of anty styler

I honestly think that if Gerrard couldn't shine a lot  was because the good work of the opposition rather than being unfamiliar with the task. In fact, bar some minutes in the first half I don't consider the captains' game bad. At some points of the game Manchester City defended very well. Until the penalty that should have given to us, I saw them doing a good defensive work and knowing to counter. It would have been a hard game for anyone playing the role of Gerrard today, no matter if you chosed Keane or Berbatov for it.

Oh, not typical you

Hmm, I do think Keane would have done better, because Gerrard didn't use his strengths in that position, it restricted him from doing whats best from him.

When he was moved back to his familiar role he looked brilliant, he did a tackle in the end which I thought it was class.

[Bad Bob]

Infact Keane almost cost us the winner, and did cost Torres his hatrick. How many goals is that now that Keane owes Torres ..... at least 2!

Debatable, mate.  Hart may have had that final shot from Torres covered.  Anyway, as Metalhead said, Keane created Torres' best chance for the hattrick with another left footed cross.  Too bad Nando ballooned that one over the bar.