Liverpool FC Forum

[JC_81]

Good post Andy.  Before United dropped points V Boro midweek I'd have said rest players for the Portsmouth game.  But now I think we have a real chance of capitalising on United dropping those points.  No Rooney and not on a good run of form, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that United will beat a Charlton side who will be desperate to win Curbishley's last game in charge, even if its at old trafford.

I'd field a strong side against Portsmouth, definitely play our regular back 4 and Reina and have Stevie and Alonso starting anyway.  After that we can maybe chop or change one or two depending on what Benitez thinks.

Getting 2nd and avoiding a potentially tricky fixture against a Spanish or Italian side would be fantastic.  Just think we could have got Villareal in qualifying this season and look how far they went in the competition.

[48-1119859832]

[quote="Bad Bob"][/quote]
BadBob,

Records shouldn't matter, so your first two points are pretty much irrelevant to anything at all, altho your 3rd point has everything relevance to us. Yes it's vital that we go into the F.A Cup final on the back of an impressive winning streak, yes it's vital we have the confidence to lift the trophy. But that's not important at the moment is it? The 50% chance of capturing second place is what should be on the mind of every Liverpool supporter, then you focus on the F.A Cup.

And I'm against the whole idea of "protecting" players for major international tournements. Fact is the club pays the players wages and creates a platform for the player to get an International call up, therefore the players should be thinking more about the club than their country and the clubs should take a selfish viewpoint and play the player as they would when an International tournement wasn't on. If the player gets injured like Rooney has and like Terry has, then too bad.

There are more than four defenders, midfielders and more than two strikers who are of the English Nationality, I'm sure if Sven actually watched matches instead of women then he'd realise this.

[Bad Bob]

BadBob,

Records shouldn't matter, so your first two points are pretty much irrelevant to anything at all, altho your 3rd point has everything relevance to us. Yes it's vital that we go into the F.A Cup final on the back of an impressive winning streak, yes it's vital we have the confidence to lift the trophy. But that's not important at the moment is it? The 50% chance of capturing second place is what should be on the mind of every Liverpool supporter, then you focus on the F.A Cup.

And I'm against the whole idea of "protecting" players for major international tournements. Fact is the club pays the players wages and creates a platform for the player to get an International call up, therefore the players should be thinking more about the club than their country and the clubs should take a selfish viewpoint and play the player as they would when an International tournement wasn't on. If the player gets injured like Rooney has and like Terry has, then too bad.

There are more than four defenders, midfielders and more than two strikers who are of the English Nationality, I'm sure if Sven actually watched matches instead of women then he'd realise this.

To clarify, I was meaning that there might be concerns about key players picking up an injury that would rule them out of the FA Cup final.  I would never expect Rafa to sacrifice Liverpool's aspirations by protecting players for the World Cup.

As for records, they do matter...especially to the players.  Pepe, for instance, has talked about the clean sheet record this week and others have brought up the significance of cracking the 80-point barrier.  The players and Rafa recognize the progress that has been made this season and these types of records and point totals serve to further highlight that progress.  They are motivating factors and should be acknowledged as such. 

Ultimately, all I was trying to say was that we were going to go for the win regardless of what happened with the Mancs because there are additional incentives to beating Portsmouth beyond the possibility of finishing 2nd.

[48-1119859832]

I can see where you coming from but records mean little when you aren't winning trophies, left, right and centre? Of course you could say that records show progress and they do. However they are irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the team winning trophies on a consistent basis, records and clean sheets are nice but they aren't the be and end all of things.

As for your comments regarding key player injuries, I don't see it as too much of a big deal, as long as we don't lose Reina, Alonso and Sissoko to Pompey we should be fine come cup final day. And I doubt we will suddenly see four or five injuries to key players against Pompey, they aren't Blackbrun you know.

I don't see how their can be additional incentives to the Pompey game other than finishing 2nd. Sure we are on a role, confidence is high and we want to keep the momentum going, that's for sure. But the test of a truly great team and the mark of a truly great team and one that is in Champion mode is a team that is able to keep a long winning streak or unbeaten streak, lose and then bounce back at the next game.

Sure losing to Pompey would somewhat tarnish the end of what's been a great story of progress and we can all have a different perspective of where this club is heading and sure we'd have to playing some qualifying games just after the World Cup which could affect our players in the middle or latter stages of our season. And sure it would end our fantastic run, it would end up the momentum but if we are truly as good as we think we are and truly believe we've made progress than we should be able to pick ourselves up against the Hammers and beat them, if not than Benitez needs to work more on the squads mentality and sell of the "weakest links" (so to speak).

[Bad Bob]

I can see where you coming from but records mean little when you aren't winning trophies, left, right and centre? Of course you could say that records show progress and they do. However they are irrelevant, the only thing that matters is the team winning trophies on a consistent basis, records and clean sheets are nice but they aren't the be and end all of things.

Well, obviously trophies are the true benchmarks of success and we're in good position to take our second piece of silverware this season come May 13th, aren't we?  So, clearly I'm not promoting club records as some sort of feel-good substitute for a lack of silverware, am I?  I want both, as do the players, as does Rafa and as does anyone that loves this team, including you I'm sure.  It's not one or the other, mate, and I was not at all suggesting as much.

Sure we are on a role, confidence is high and we want to keep the momentum going, that's for sure. But the test of a truly great team and the mark of a truly great team and one that is in Champion mode is a team that is able to keep a long winning streak or unbeaten streak, lose and then bounce back at the next game.

Sure losing to Pompey would somewhat tarnish the end of what's been a great story of progress and we can all have a different perspective of where this club is heading and sure we'd have to playing some qualifying games just after the World Cup which could affect our players in the middle or latter stages of our season. And sure it would end our fantastic run, it would end up the momentum but if we are truly as good as we think we are and truly believe we've made progress than we should be able to pick ourselves up against the Hammers and beat them, if not than Benitez needs to work more on the squads mentality and sell of the "weakest links" (so to speak).

This is just a bizarre statement.  No one is suggesting--at least I'm not!--that a loss to Portsmouth means we're going to lose to West Ham in Cardiff.  The lads HAVE shown tremendous resilience all year, bouncing back after tough losses to re-establish their winning form.  Even should we lose tomorrow I still fancy our chances in Cardiff.

What makes the above statement truly bizarre, however, is that it contradicts what you were same earlier in this same thread:

A lose now could have dramatic consequences on our form and team morale, not something you'd want before a cup final.

I'm not trying to take the p!ss here, mate.  You've got ideas and passion and that's what this board is about.  But debating with you is a challenge because: (a) you seem to misinterpret what I'm saying a fair bit and (b) you seem to change your own position quite significantly from post to post.  The funny thing is, I strongly suspect that, at the end of the day, we're largely in agreement over what's at stake tomorrow and how the team should approach the game. 

[48-1119859832]

I don't think they are contradictory at all really, perhaps you just don't understand my viewpoint. I said that a loss could have a disasterous affect on our morale and our confidence, I then later stated that a mark of a great team and one that is boarder lining Champion is a team that can lose a game after a long period and bounce back the next game.

So in all respects, I don't understand how you can say I'm contradicting myself?

[Bad Bob]

I don't think they are contradictory at all really, perhaps you just don't understand my viewpoint. I said that a loss could have a disasterous affect on our morale and our confidence, I then later stated that a mark of a great team and one that is boarder lining Champion is a team that can lose a game after a long period and bounce back the next game.

So in all respects, I don't understand how you can say I'm contradicting myself?

Fine, it's not a contradiction...it's just noncommital fence-sitting. 

The question you've raised, but have declined to answer, is whether Liverpool have the mental strength to bounce back from a loss to Portsmouth and win the FA Cup.  Your original post in this thread suggested you had doubts, while your response to my post suggests that you're confident that they could bounce back.  So, which is it?

Personally, I'm sure the lads will win tomorrow and render this discussion moot but should they fail to beat Portsmouth I still have every confidence that they'll win in Cardiff.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I think Man U will win their game tomorrow for exactly the reason we're discussing: like it or not, they are a resilient team that can produce when the chips are down, despite a poor run of recent form.  I'll gladly take second if they slip up but it is theirs to lose and I think we'll see them put Charlton to the sword.

[48-1119859832]

I didn't raise that as a question, I just added it to mix because losing when you've been on a long winning/unbeaten streak can have catastrophic effects on the team confidence and morale. Now I'm not saying that if we lose to Pompey that we'll lose in Cardiff, and I'm not saying that a loss to Pompey will tarnish our confidence and stop the momentum, but like it or not it could very well happen. If we lose to Pompey than it will be a test come the F.A Cup final. It will test how well and far we've come and how much we will still have to do to become the pinnacle of English football.

Maybe United will win, maybe they won't but they will find it tough without the attacking presence of Wayne Rooney and they'll find it even more difficult without a midfield. United are favourites but good littlen always has a chance against the Big boys, we shall see.

But the overall point I was trying to make before I was dragged off-topic was that we should be focusing on Pompey and the chance to capture second, it's a 50/50 chance of us capturing, some people are acting as if the league is finished and 2nd place is dead and buried. We should as a set of supporters focus on one game at a time and not go running away with ourselves to cup finals and what not; I'm a excited as anyone to be in the F.A Cup final, the trophy is one of my favourites and it's been shameful that a club of our prestige hasn't won it more times.