Liverpool FC Forum

[tubby]

Yeah I was worried we would fail to create chances with Alonso and Gerrard but they played well together.

[Fo Dne]

I thought Gerrard played well, probably better in the 2nd half, but we still struggled to create dangerous goalscoring chances in the 1st half of play and surely some of that blame can be laid upon the central midfield pairing, although some of the touches/crosses of the strikers and widemen did let the team down.

The only thing Alonso and Gerrard didn't do yesterday was score 30 yard screamers. People like you really do me off yanno. They play a practically perfect game, dominate the midfield for 90 minutes (not 75, the full ninety) and you've got the nerve to say its down to them that we didn't create chances?

The two of them won the ball nearly everytime Everton tried to attack, they passed Everton off the park, the completely dominated 3 central midfielders and people are slating them because they didn't smack one in the top corner.

Un believable.

Seriously. Strikers and wingers are there to score goals lad and apply the finishing touches. Central midfielders are there to do EXACTLY what those two done the other day. Anything else is a bonus, as I said the only reason I would give them both 9/10 instead of 10/10 is because they didn't score directly or directly assist a goal.

[Fo Dne]

Yeah I was worried we would fail to create chances with Alonso and Gerrard but they played well together.

Why?

[JoeTerp]

I thought Gerrard played well, probably better in the 2nd half, but we still struggled to create dangerous goalscoring chances in the 1st half of play and surely some of that blame can be laid upon the central midfield pairing, although some of the touches/crosses of the strikers and widemen did let the team down.

The only thing Alonso and Gerrard didn't do yesterday was score 30 yard screamers. People like you really do me off yanno. They play a practically perfect game, dominate the midfield for 90 minutes (not 75, the full ninety) and you've got the nerve to say its down to them that we didn't create chances?

The two of them won the ball nearly everytime Everton tried to attack, they passed Everton off the park, the completely dominated 3 central midfielders and people are slating them because they didn't smack one in the top corner.

Un believable.

Seriously. Strikers and wingers are there to score goals lad and apply the finishing touches. Central midfielders are there to do EXACTLY what those two done the other day. Anything else is a bonus, as I said the only reason I would give them both 9/10 instead of 10/10 is because they didn't score directly or directly assist a goal.

I think you are putting some words into my mouth here. Clearly we looked far more likely to score goals in the 2nd half, and we did. Alonso was very influential in that build up with his defense splitting pass to Keane.  Dominating the game is all well and good, but didn't we do that against Stoke? Last time I checked, they don't give points away for dominating games, they give points to teams that can score more than their opponents.  Granted, a lot of what Gerrard did for the team was eliminating Everton's goalscoring threat before it could begin, and then giving us the chance to create chances, and he did this very well. But like it or not, he is also one of our best goal scorers and a good creator as well AND there have certainly been games where he had provided more in that sense and we were still able to dominate in midfield at the same time, and in those games we looked even more like winning.  For me, based on the 1st half, I would have not been surprised if someone told me it finished 2-0 to us, but I also would have not been surprised if someone said it finished 0-0, and that isn't a good thing for the future.

I am also not saying that Gerrard should have played better or done more. He did a great job at what he was asked to do (which in itself was quite a lot).  I am just saying that unless Keane starts popping up with goals soon, it might make sense to ask Gerrard to play a more attacking game, especially when Macherano comes back into the fold.  Only time will tell. One would think that if we keep using Gerrard as a "game bosser" that we would keep winning, but I am just saying that it isn't a guarantee.

[Bad Bob]

This was just posted today on football365.  I gather it's some new feature that's designed to re-evaluate some of football's "sacred cows" and this lad has decided to start by suggesting that Stevie's not quite world class.  I'm interested to see what people make of this, especially considering the "lack of discipline" argument has been used by a number of our own in evaluating Gerrard.  Oh, and Stu should take note of the argument that suggests Gerrard is more talented than Lampard but that he's plateaued, whereas the Chelsea man has worked hard to improve his game.

Gerrard Falls Short Of World Class
Posted 10/10/08 12:45


Ever felt that everyone was wrong about an issue but you, that an accepted truth has gone unquestioned despite evidence to the contrary? In the first of a series of articles which will look to challenge received opinions in football, Simon O'Brien rallies against a variety of widely-held beliefs in the modern game. First out of the bag...

Steven Gerrard is one of the best midfielders in the world.

Steven Gerrard reached the remarkable milestone of 100 goals in his Liverpool career last week, and few would argue what an achievement that was. But is a prolific goalscoring record enough to establish him as one of the world's greatest?

First things first - there is no denying that Gerrard is an incredibly talented player. Technically there are few better, he can run all day and has deceptive body strength belying his wiry frame. His range of passing can at times be stunning, and nothing further needs to be said about his ability to score goals - his individual quality has won many a game for Liverpool.

What Gerrard lacks is discipline. That might sound odd, given his honest professionalism and the manner in which he grew out of the rash tackles that blighted his early career, but it impacts his game at a fundamental level.

With nearly a decade of Premiership experience to his name, Gerrard has still yet to curb his natural attacking instinct. Indeed, in that respect he has arguably regressed since his younger days as a more defensive-minded midfielder, where he showed signs of being able to harness his boundless energy to good effect by aligning it with an awareness of what was going on around him, to become one of the best box-to-box midfielders around.

Of course, under Benitez the midfielder has been given license to push forward more often - but when asked to fulfil a deeper role as part of a two-man central midfield, he has never gained his manager's full trust. Too intent on eye-catching 60-yard passes or glory goals and lacking in positional sense, Benitez has shunted Gerrard into a variety of more attacking roles, showing a clear lack of belief in Gerrard's ability to fulfil the extra responsibilities that come with the role of midfield general.

Indeed, at times Benitez has changed his formation entirely to accommodate his talisman, giving Gerrard a free role off a main striker, the irrepressible Fernando Torres. This, more than anything, damns those who claim Gerrard is one of the best around - how good can a player truly be, if the entire thrust of his team needs to be adapted according to his needs? Roy Keane, Patrick Vieira, even Paul Scholes in his pomp, all performed selflessly for their team every week, carrying out whatever duties were asked of them for the greater good. Can the same truly be said of Gerrard?

At international level, too, Gerrard has often strived even for mediocrity, let alone greatness. Too much has been said previously to dwell on the bemusing Gerrard/Lampard situation - suffice to say that Lampard appears (in the short term, at least) to have convinced Capello that, if he must choose between two to play alongside a more defensive midfielder, it must be him.

While Lampard, a player of limited natural ability, has worked on every aspect of his game to hit perhaps the greatest form of his career at 31, Gerrard plateaued in his early-20s and has never pushed on to better things. Only a handful of good performances in an England career spanning almost a decade are evidence enough of Gerrard's inability to bring out the best in himself.

With Deco re-emerging at Chelsea after a horrible couple of years at Barcelona, Wesley Sneijder beginning to establish himself as one of the world's best prior to injury and Andrea Pirlo still capable of rediscovering the imperious form that led Italy to World Cup glory in 2006 when he returns from injury in November. Throw in the wonderful Xavi Hernandez and Andres Iniesta who pull the strings at Barca, and the bar for creative midfielders in the modern game is set incredibly high. Gerrard falls just short.

Don't take this as an attack on Gerrard, who has lit up the Premier League for years and remains one of the most watchable players in England. He is an exceptionally talented footballer, capable of performances and moments of brilliance the likes of which have hardly been seen from an Englishman since the Premiership's inception. The player himself shouldn't be criticised so much as the general public's view of him. World class? Sometimes - but that's not enough.

Simon O'Brien

LINK

[maypaxvobiscum]

i wanna be a journalist too. i get paid to write piles of dung.

[Zidane]

Stupid article, I agree that Rafa hurt his defensive mentality and all around play that he had earlier in his career though.  When he is put in midfield which is off and on so far looks like this season that may change but he can occassionally try too hard to put out a great performance trying to ensure his spot in the position.  When he tries too hard in there he runs a bit wild and it looks bad.  If he were put there day in day out throughout his career more often than not he would be much better off there.  That hasn't been the case and it has made him suffer in that aspect.  The not being able to play out of position is stupid as well, there are many players that simply can't do it and yet this guy criticizes Steve for being able to?

As for international, who doesn't look bad on England they are a terrible squad for whatever the reasons and everyone looks like more times than not.  I think this is a biased article it is pretty obvious to me that it is.

Edit:  As for him glory hunting or whatever, Liverpool has been a weak offensive side for quite a while.  It's not like he's gonna just be like hey one of you scrubs go out there and score one for once while I sit back, be more discipline and let us lose.  Liverpool ask a lot of him and he doesn't -ever- get the credit he deserves.

[Sabre]

It's not a stupid article, it's a personal insult.

Don't take this as an attack on Gerrard,

He states his intentions at the end of the article, non asked explanations are a clear accusation.

Of course, under Benitez the midfielder has been given license to push forward more often - but when asked to fulfil a deeper role as part of a two-man central midfield, he has never gained his manager's full trust. Too intent on eye-catching 60-yard passes or glory goals and lacking in positional sense, Benitez has shunted Gerrard into a variety of more attacking roles, showing a clear lack of belief in Gerrard's ability to fulfil the extra responsibilities that come with the role of midfield general.

Indeed, at times Benitez has changed his formation entirely to accommodate his talisman, giving Gerrard a free role off a main striker, the irrepressible Fernando Torres.

So, when Benitez plays Gerrard behind Torres, and Gerrard scores and assists, it's because Rafa has worked hard to accomodate Gerrard.

When Benitez plays Gerrard elsewhere, it doesn't mean that the previous statement is wrong, no, it means that Rafa doesn't rely in Gerrard's skill?

I mean come on

This article stinks. Being a world class player is difficult because the world is very big and there are many great players. If you ask in Italy or Spain, they'll mention the names they know first.

But the journo doesn't compare with other great midfielders, he tries too hard to attack Gerrard, so much that he falls in some inconsistencies.

[metalhead]

This was just posted today on football365.  I gather it's some new feature that's designed to re-evaluate some of football's "sacred cows" and this lad has decided to start by suggesting that Stevie's not quite world class.  I'm interested to see what people make of this, especially considering the "lack of discipline" argument has been used by a number of our own in evaluating Gerrard.  Oh, and Stu should take note of the argument that suggests Gerrard is more talented than Lampard but that he's plateaued, whereas the Chelsea man has worked hard to improve his game.

Gerrard Falls Short Of World Class
Posted 10/10/08 12:45


Ever felt that everyone was wrong about an issue but you, that an accepted truth has gone unquestioned despite evidence to the contrary? In the first of a series of articles which will look to challenge received opinions in football, Simon O'Brien rallies against a variety of widely-held beliefs in the modern game. First out of the bag...

Steven Gerrard is one of the best midfielders in the world.

Steven Gerrard reached the remarkable milestone of 100 goals in his Liverpool career last week, and few would argue what an achievement that was. But is a prolific goalscoring record enough to establish him as one of the world's greatest?

First things first - there is no denying that Gerrard is an incredibly talented player. Technically there are few better, he can run all day and has deceptive body strength belying his wiry frame. His range of passing can at times be stunning, and nothing further needs to be said about his ability to score goals - his individual quality has won many a game for Liverpool.

What Gerrard lacks is discipline. That might sound odd, given his honest professionalism and the manner in which he grew out of the rash tackles that blighted his early career, but it impacts his game at a fundamental level.

With nearly a decade of Premiership experience to his name, Gerrard has still yet to curb his natural attacking instinct. Indeed, in that respect he has arguably regressed since his younger days as a more defensive-minded midfielder, where he showed signs of being able to harness his boundless energy to good effect by aligning it with an awareness of what was going on around him, to become one of the best box-to-box midfielders around.

Of course, under Benitez the midfielder has been given license to push forward more often - but when asked to fulfil a deeper role as part of a two-man central midfield, he has never gained his manager's full trust. Too intent on eye-catching 60-yard passes or glory goals and lacking in positional sense, Benitez has shunted Gerrard into a variety of more attacking roles, showing a clear lack of belief in Gerrard's ability to fulfil the extra responsibilities that come with the role of midfield general.

Indeed, at times Benitez has changed his formation entirely to accommodate his talisman, giving Gerrard a free role off a main striker, the irrepressible Fernando Torres. This, more than anything, damns those who claim Gerrard is one of the best around - how good can a player truly be, if the entire thrust of his team needs to be adapted according to his needs? Roy Keane, Patrick Vieira, even Paul Scholes in his pomp, all performed selflessly for their team every week, carrying out whatever duties were asked of them for the greater good. Can the same truly be said of Gerrard?

At international level, too, Gerrard has often strived even for mediocrity, let alone greatness. Too much has been said previously to dwell on the bemusing Gerrard/Lampard situation - suffice to say that Lampard appears (in the short term, at least) to have convinced Capello that, if he must choose between two to play alongside a more defensive midfielder, it must be him.

While Lampard, a player of limited natural ability, has worked on every aspect of his game to hit perhaps the greatest form of his career at 31, Gerrard plateaued in his early-20s and has never pushed on to better things. Only a handful of good performances in an England career spanning almost a decade are evidence enough of Gerrard's inability to bring out the best in himself.

With Deco re-emerging at Chelsea after a horrible couple of years at Barcelona, Wesley Sneijder beginning to establish himself as one of the world's best prior to injury and Andrea Pirlo still capable of rediscovering the imperious form that led Italy to World Cup glory in 2006 when he returns from injury in November. Throw in the wonderful Xavi Hernandez and Andres Iniesta who pull the strings at Barca, and the bar for creative midfielders in the modern game is set incredibly high. Gerrard falls just short.

Don't take this as an attack on Gerrard, who has lit up the Premier League for years and remains one of the most watchable players in England. He is an exceptionally talented footballer, capable of performances and moments of brilliance the likes of which have hardly been seen from an Englishman since the Premiership's inception. The player himself shouldn't be criticised so much as the general public's view of him. World class? Sometimes - but that's not enough.

Simon O'Brien

LINK

He talks alot of cr@p.

let him watch everton v liverpool game, let him see how discipline Gerrard was in midfield. Let him watch the Istanbul CL final.

He is world class nuff said.

[Bad Bob]

You know what, MH, I'm not sure this lad watches Gerrard much at all...at least not this season.  He comes out with an article about Gerrard lacking discipline in a CM role in a period when Gerrard's being playing that role to perfection when selected there.  I think the timing of the article is conspicuous.  We're on the eve of international matches and an article pops up to suggest that Gerrard's sub-par for England, not disciplined enough at Liverpool and with a bit of the "Stevie Me" syndrome to boot...sounds to me like this O'Brien fellow's a Chelsea fan and this is his way of urging/justifying Lampard's selection ahead of Gerrard's.

[Effes]

If Gerrard isn't world class, I'd like to know who is?

Sneijder is as well, he's boss.

[metalhead]

You know what, MH, I'm not sure this lad watches Gerrard much at all...at least not this season.  He comes out with an article about Gerrard lacking discipline in a CM role in a period when Gerrard's being playing that role to perfection when selected there.  I think the timing of the article is conspicuous.  We're on the eve of international matches and an article pops up to suggest that Gerrard's sub-par for England, not disciplined enough at Liverpool and with a bit of the "Stevie Me" syndrome to boot...sounds to me like this O'Brien fellow's a Chelsea fan and this is his way of urging/justifying Lampard's selection ahead of Gerrard's.

I was reading comments on the article it self, most posters are disagreeing with him.

''lacks discipline'' biggest load of b*llox I have ever read.

[kazza]

Stevie has to stay, as a holding midfielder or even a right-back

Shaun Custis believes Steven Gerrard may have to play right-back to stay in the England side.

The Liverpool skipper adopted a holding midfield role in the second half on Saturday as Fabio Capello's side switched to a 4-4-2 formation and eventually romped to a 5-1 win over Kazakhstan.

It meant the age-old debate of Gerrard and Frank Lampard playing together resurfacing again, but The Sun's football correspondent had a 'revolutiuonary' idea after seeing the pair struggle to dovetail again.

And it means sticking Gerrard - who says he has only played five England games in his favourite position - in defence and giving Lampard the attacking midfielder's job.

"It only even has a chance of working in a 4-4-2 if Steven Gerrard decides to do that because Frank Lampard is not really one for doing it," Custis told The Supplement.

"He goes off forward first and you can almost see Gerrard wanting to do it, but seeing Lampard go first and thinking 'I'll have to stay back and accept that'.

"I still think they can play together with Steven Gerrard doing that disciplined role. I do think it's possible. You certainly cannot leave Steven Gerrard out of the England team - he's far too good a player, so we have to find a way.

"There is a revolutionary thought going around which Steven Gerrard probably wouldn't but his hands up to, but why not play him at right-back?

"He has been very good there. I know we're sacrificing an enormous amount by playing Steven Gerrard there but the alternative is leaving him out of the team. In order to get him into the team, why not play him there?"

Custis though also feels that the Gerrard-Lampard combination can work in midfield.

He admits though it would mean the Liverpool skipper sitting behind Lampard and curbing the attacking instincts that we see week in week out in the Premier League.

But with the Kazakhstan game the 41st time the pair have played in the same England side, Custis admits that we are no closer to solving the conundrum.

"It still remains a mystery," he said. "They tried 4-3-3 in the first half with Steven Gerrard pushing on with Frank Lampard, but nobody had a shot on target.

"In the second half Gerrard was alongside Lampard in a 4-4-2 and in order for it to work at all Steven Gerrard has clearly decided he'd play the deeper role and was clearly sitting back, pinging it about, making the odd run forward but effectively holding his hands up and saying 'I'd better stick back here'."

**************

Here's another thought, why not drop Lumpard instead and play Gerrard in his normal position. Play Gerrard at right-back so as to let Lumpard play?? What an idiot!

[Bam]

Here's another thought, why not drop Lumpard instead and play Gerrard in his normal position. Play Gerrard at right-back so as to let Lumpard play?? What an idiot!

My sentiments exactly

[NANNY RED]

Stevies out of the England squad hes tore a muscle SSN