Liverpool FC Forum

[Emerald Red]

Sell mascherano for £40 mil and then buy David Villa and put Gerrard back in the holding role. Selling Gerrard would be an own goal of most epic  preportions.

LOL

NO! Just NO!

Ok then what about getting Toni on the free

I'd take anyone with better quality than Voronin on a free. So, yes!

We need to get Toni on the free and trade Babel for a quality right winger. Then Kuyt and Toni could be back up for Torres and we'd have 3 or 4 quality wingers.

Also i think its time Carra moved on. We really should try and get Upson but tbh we wont be getting anyone good if we dont qualify for CL football next season.

Dunno about the 4 quality wingers part, as we only seem to have one of those at the moment, and even then that is debatable, but I agree with everything else.

Edit - oh, disagree with the Carra part. He's below par this season, certainly, but still very important. I'd no sooner sell Steve than Carra. If anything, I'd make Carragher captain.

[Dundalk]

Gotta say thats brilliant 

[Sir Roger]

Agreed
Rafa is not THAT stupid
But I think Emerald may have a point in that he was surprised by Alonsos request and didnt know that Alonso would have been upset at his treatment
He might not have seen it coming because he doesnt understand emotions in football
Only facts...?

Either way, Rafa shot himself in the foot with that one. I just think it was poor timeing on Alonso's behalf to do what he did, when he did. It was just an unfortunate situation that should have been prevented.

Do you think Rafa is so removed from the emotional side of things that he honestly cant see or understand that players can get upset?

[Emerald Red]

Agreed
Rafa is not THAT stupid
But I think Emerald may have a point in that he was surprised by Alonsos request and didnt know that Alonso would have been upset at his treatment
He might not have seen it coming because he doesnt understand emotions in football
Only facts...?

Either way, Rafa shot himself in the foot with that one. I just think it was poor timeing on Alonso's behalf to do what he did, when he did. It was just an unfortunate situation that should have been prevented.

Do you think Rafa is so removed from the emotional side of things that he honestly cant see or understand that players can get upset?

IMO, I don't think that's the case at all. You see in the training pictures at Melwood, he sometimes looks as if he's having a laugh and a joke with the players. If it were the case he was cold and uncompromising, you wouldn't get our players coming out and defending him at times as they do. You seen two seasons ago when Mash got sent off at OT when Mascherano was losing the plot, Rafa went to him and gave him a father-like hand on his head to calm him down. He wasn't angry at Mascherano for going too far. I think it's an unfair critisism of Benitez that he often gets labelled as "emotionless" by some on here. You just simply cannot say that without having first hand experience with the man, or anyone in general for that matter. In either case, it's not uncommon for certain players to fall out with their managers. It could have been just the case with Xabi and Rafa. No one really knows apart from those two, but in either case losing Alonso was a massive blow for us, but we'll recover.

[Emerald Red]

Gotta say thats brilliant 

Inspired by your Picard emoticons.

F*ckin hell, I've spammed this thread something shocking. I'm off.

[NANNY RED]

OMG Ste that sig is brilliant

[ruskiy playmaker]

haha just noticed it aswell.  Brilliant

[Ben Patrick]

utYour missing the point though Emerald.

Rafa wanted to sell Alonso .....not for 3 times his price, but for between £14 and £16million when he was after Barry.

Rafa then replaced Alonso with an injured player that has played 45mins since he joined us.

Alonso had 2 good years out of 5 with us (I personally don't think he was that good in his first season either)

We EVENTUALLY got a good price for him, but before his last excellent season for us we couldn't get £15million for him.

My opinion of Alonso hasn't changed, I thought he was a good player who had two poor seasons on the trot before Rafa first tried to sell him.

I find it strange that people are trying to defend Rafa by talking about Barry rather than the injured player that Rafa paid almost double the price we could have got Barry for.

Circumstances change from summer-to-summer regarding budget, though. The summer we sold Xabi, he'd to sell to buy, plus the Yanks probably had the pressure on to get a sufficient recoup on the player to balance the books. Who knows. I'm not debating the fact Bentez f*cked up by buying an injured player to replace him with, but at the time Xabi's handing in his transfere was a bit of a suprirse and probably something that Rafa wasn't even expecting. I recall him trying to get him to stay, but when he couldn't what was he to do? Who were the alternatives? He had to act quick, and in his defense it would have been a serious reshuffling of his overall plans for the team this season. It was a gamble, but it's still not excusing the fact that we should have at least been OK, or at least functioning as a team without Alonso. I still believe the state of the side isn't just down to his exit. It's part of it no doubt. I just find it irritating that people are now using this as an excuse to excuse the poor form of the team this season. When Xabi was out for long spells, we coped well enough. Anyway, back to the topic at hand about our captain.

It was hardly a SURPRISE when Alonso handed in a transfer request, Alonso had been saying since the end of the season that he wanted to go.

But I agree that losing Alonso is not the main reason for our current problems. Rafa must take the majority of the blame for that.

He brought in a load of new backroom staff, gave the players a very poor pre-season campaign, and then stuck with a system that WOULDN'T WORK with the players now at his disposal for far too long.

Selling Gerrard would be the final folly if Rafa was foolish enough to do it, which I don't think he is.

We are talking about a player that has scored in League cup finals, a UEFA cup final, an FA cup final and a CL final.

A player that also brought us back from the dead in two of those finals and on other occasions too numerous to count.

This season he has sacrificed his form and fitness for the good of the team by playing on when he is injured, and people would consider selling him because one or two of the lesser lights MIGHT POSSIBLY be overawed by his talent, or maybe its a last desperate ploy to defect some of the blame from where it should lie.......with the manager.[/quote]
Great post mate

[bigmick]

In fairness now Parry isn't around (fecking Parry ) it was only a matter of time before it was Gerrards fault. Forget all that stuff about him playing with an injury, it's all down to the captains body language. The only strange thing is that so far Sammy Lee has got off scot free. I've seen the doctors blamed for Aquilani's signing, the owners blamed because we didn't get Silva, Villa and Kaka, the players blamed because we keep losing and we haven't got any passion, Gerrard blamed for having bad body language etc etc, but wee Sammy has barely got a mention. It must surely only be a matter of time.

[andy_g]

apparently sammy keeps giving the players a wedgie in the showers and they're all sick of it

[account deleted by request]

[s@int @ Dec. 22 2009,21:30]
Your missing the point though Emerald.

Rafa wanted to sell Alonso .....not for 3 times his price, but for between £14 and £16million when he was after Barry.

Rafa then replaced Alonso with an injured player that has played 45mins since he joined us.

Alonso had 2 good years out of 5 with us (I personally don't think he was that good in his first season either)

We EVENTUALLY got a good price for him, but before his last excellent season for us we couldn't get £15million for him.

My opinion of Alonso hasn't changed, I thought he was a good player who had two poor seasons on the trot before Rafa first tried to sell him.

I find it strange that people are trying to defend Rafa by talking about Barry rather than the injured player that Rafa paid almost double the price we could have got Barry for.

Circumstances change from summer-to-summer regarding budget, though. The summer we sold Xabi, he'd to sell to buy, plus the Yanks probably had the pressure on to get a sufficient recoup on the player to balance the books. Who knows. I'm not debating the fact Bentez f*cked up by buying an injured player to replace him with, but at the time Xabi's handing in his transfere was a bit of a suprirse and probably something that Rafa wasn't even expecting. I recall him trying to get him to stay, but when he couldn't what was he to do? Who were the alternatives? He had to act quick, and in his defense it would have been a serious reshuffling of his overall plans for the team this season. It was a gamble, but it's still not excusing the fact that we should have at least been OK, or at least functioning as a team without Alonso. I still believe the state of the side isn't just down to his exit. It's part of it no doubt. I just find it irritating that people are now using this as an excuse to excuse the poor form of the team this season. When Xabi was out for long spells, we coped well enough. Anyway, back to the topic at hand about our captain.

It was hardly a SURPRISE when Alonso handed in a transfer request, Alonso had been saying since the end of the season that he wanted to go.

But I agree that losing Alonso is not the main reason for our current problems. Rafa must take the majority of the blame for that.

He brought in a load of new backroom staff, gave the players a very poor pre-season campaign, and then stuck with a system that WOULDN'T WORK with the players now at his disposal for far too long.

Selling Gerrard would be the final folly if Rafa was foolish enough to do it, which I don't think he is.

We are talking about a player that has scored in League cup finals, a UEFA cup final, an FA cup final and a CL final.

A player that also brought us back from the dead in two of those finals and on other occasions too numerous to count.

This season he has sacrificed his form and fitness for the good of the team by playing on when he is injured, and people would consider selling him because one or two of the lesser lights MIGHT POSSIBLY be overawed by his talent, or maybe its a last desperate ploy to defect some of the blame from where it should lie.......with the manager.

Great post mate

I tried my best to fix the quotes , but unlike rafa, I am no genius 

[ConnO'var]

I actually think that this is a pretty interesting thread for discussion.

I've always felt that Rafa does not know how to integrate a Gerrard type player into a central midfield role. Hence, why he's played him as a support striker. Gerrard's dynamism, IMO, is counter intuitive to the gaffer's measured approach to football. There could very well be a case to sell him if we were to persist with Rafa.

IMO, and I'm glad to see that in the vast majority of posters' opinion however, the problem is not Gerrard. And Rafa know that if he were to sell him, without Stevie making a request, than Rafa would lose the fast fading support of the fans.

Stevie is not playing his best at the moment.... mostly due, I suspect, to carrying an injury but also, in no small part, due to the fact that he cannot influence the ebb and flow of the game from where he is being deployed. With Xabi there and playing well, this was not so evident as Xabi was always able to keep the the game ticking over and keeping the forward line well supplied simply by being able to spread the ball around a lot more and hence creating space for the 2 two upfront. With the current midfield we have however, we are infinitely more  compressed and hence easily neutralized.

You can have the biggest howitzers on the battlefield, but they won't be enough to you win any wars without the right ammunition.

No, the problem is not Gerrard...... That particular honour needs to be placed at Rafa's door.

It would be UTTER MADNESS to sell the best player (bar one) to ever don the red of Liverpool. It would indicate our negativity and we'll never be able to convince any top players to join us. Plus, it could hail the exit of Torres as well. People say Rafa is Liverpool through and through..... They are sadly mistaken, IMO..... Stevie is liverpool through and through not Rafa.

[Ben Patrick]

I actually think that this is a pretty interesting thread for discussion.

I've always felt that Rafa does not know how to integrate a Gerrard type player into a central midfield role. Hence, why he's played him as a support striker. Gerrard's dynamism, IMO, is counter intuitive to the gaffer's measured approach to football. There could very well be a case to sell him if we were to persist with Rafa.

IMO, and I'm glad to see that in the vast majority of posters' opinion however, the problem is not Gerrard. And Rafa know that if he were to sell him, without Stevie making a request, than Rafa would lose the fast fading support of the fans.

Stevie is not playing his best at the moment.... mostly due, I suspect, to carrying an injury but also, in no small part, due to the fact that he cannot influence the ebb and flow of the game from where he is being deployed. With Xabi there and playing well, this was not so evident as Xabi was always able to keep the the game ticking over and keeping the forward line well supplied simply by being able to spread the ball around a lot more and hence creating space for the 2 two upfront. With the current midfield we have however, we are infinitely more  compressed and hence easily neutralized.

You can have the biggest howitzers on the battlefield, but they won't be enough to you win any wars without the right ammunition.

No, the problem is not Gerrard...... That particular honour needs to be placed at Rafa's door.

It would be UTTER MADNESS to sell the best player (bar one) to ever don the red of Liverpool. It would indicate our negativity and we'll never be able to convince any top players to join us. Plus, it could hail the exit of Torres as well. People say Rafa is Liverpool through and through..... They are sadly mistaken, IMO..... Stevie is liverpool through and through not Rafa.

Great post Conn 

[tonyeh]

apparently sammy keeps giving the players a wedgie in the showers and they're all sick of it

Fecking Sammy 

[Sabre]

Well when a team struggles there are always voices that for some reason want sold the best players, it happened with Alonso, and it happens with Gerrard.

I don't understand this voices, I guess they come from pundits.

No, we should keep Gerrard.

Also, I disagree the notion of Rafa hindering Gerrard's career in the last 5 years, if someone dares to say that.

You cannot say that a player is a world class player and is nominated for awards, and that his career is being hindered at the same time. Not sure that anybody suggested that, but in this times in which any criticism to the manager is good, I wouldn't be surprised to read it.

And it's bóllocks, of course, besides a big contradiction.