Liverpool FC Forum

[worcester_red]

And all comments can be taken out of context remember.

ok, try and put some positive spin on Roy's comments then, in which context were they meant?

[worcester_red]

What gets me though is people who went on here and slaughtered the man and guaranteed that someone like Mourinho would kill to manage us. That is and was so incredibly far from any kind of reality it still boggles the mind.

And then there's people like in this thread who posted they where bored with Rafa and after he promised 4th and finished 7th he had to go.

European games against Barca, Real Madrid, Juve etc etc, on a yearly basis? Not to mention a few finals now and then. Should not be ignored people wanted the title and he didnt deliver it thats why people wanted him out, not because of the 7th place finish people thought the grass was greener getting shut of him well everyone knows now its not.

And of course there's also the point of who should replace Rafa. Why anyone would think the people we had/have in charge would be able to get us anything better is beyond me. We reap what we sow, and there are plenty of Liverpool fans out there who thoroughly deserve what's happening now.

As bad as last season was with Rafa he didnt ever have us in 18th place seven goals scored with a minus goal difference.

When you get rid of a manager you replace said manager with someone better who in their right mind thought Roy Hodgson would be any better seriously needs their heads testing, the first thing I said when he signed was he will take us down and I was right.

I didnt want to be proven right I feel a f,uckin shamed embarressed and humiliated at our position in the league, I feel a f,ucking shamed in having an absoluty clueless manager in charge, who has no clue about Liverpool Football Club and is still comparing us to Fulham.

Twit & Tw@t have gone if the new owners have ruthlessness about them they should sack Hodgson today before he ruins this club for ever.

I say this alot lately.

I think your a sound girl but you dont half chat some rubbish on here at times ciggy.

People didnt want Rafa to go because they demanded or expected the title.
The reason (for me anyway) was because we were clearly going backwards and he didnt appear to have any idea how to stop it happening.
He started really well and won 2 trophies. That was fantastic.
We then got to another champions league final which was a great thing as we were ranked the no1 side in europe and probably favourites in that final.

He got it wrong for me there and inexplicably left Crouch on the bench when we were 2-0 down.
We still had some great times over the next 3 seasons with the Real Madrid and united hammerings in the same week being one of the best weeks of our recent history.
But the last season things had gone totally wrong.
His signings in the last 2 seasons had been terrible. Major money wasted with a key player being sold and replaced with one that the manager appeared not to fancy at all.
The squad in the end was massively unbalanced and after 6 seasons despite the financial constraints due to our scumbag owners - it was Rafa's squad. He built it and the buck does stop with him.

Onto Roy, there is no doubt he looks out of his depth, big time.
You and others have called it right by the looks of things.
I can hold my hands up and freely admit i thought most managers could come in and things would improve, even if it was only slightly.
I never for one minute expected things to be this bad and the buck stops with Roy.
It's not the previous managers fault we lost at home to Blackpool and were knocked out of the Carling cup at home to Northampton.
We may have an unbalanced squad with some poor players in but we should without doubt be in and around the top 4 still.
The board appear to have cocked up by appointing Roy and i think the new owners need to make a call asap before we are in serious trouble.

That doesnt mean Rafa should still be here, he had his chance and come up short in the end.

What it does mean is that when the owners do change the manager, they get it right.

hear hear, well said that man, totally agree. 

[Greavesie]

His signings in the last 2 seasons had been terrible. Major money wasted with a key player being sold and replaced with one that the manager appeared not to fancy at all.
The squad in the end was massively unbalanced and after 6 seasons despite the financial constraints due to our scumbag owners - it was Rafa's squad. He built it and the buck does stop with him.

That was the key with Rafa, for me.  Yes, there's the one bad season argument but his transfers were replacing too many solid players with weaker players each window.

Crouch and Bellamy --> Keane and Voronin
Riise -->  Dossena
Momo --> Lucas
Alonso --> Aquilani

etc .etc.

Unfortunately, in terms of the squad strength we were going backwards and that suggested that more bad seasons would follow.

see what you've started 

anyway I think you're right in what you say, HOWEVER, the owners clearly haven't helped on that matter tho. I've no doubt that everyone can see we need wingers and a striker in the squad. If money was there surely it would be done right??

Sellling Riera was a bit of a bad move IMO - I know he was being a tw@t but he was our only genuine winger who had something nobody else had. Masch obviously hasn't helped Roy's situation either cos now we really are missing that bit of steel in the middle of the park

[bunglemark2]

This topic is about Roy, not Rafa.
Move on.
Roy has brought in Konchesky, Poulsen, brought back Aurelio....

'nuff said...

[Reg]

Ok lets look at this from a different angle. If the club spoke a few months ago to a psychiatrist and asked the affect of the ownership drama on a motivated social group (LFC supporters) bearing in mind the anticipated stressful run up to the October 6th deadline, what response would he have given?

the group stress levels would gradually intensify in the 2 months before the deadline peaking at maximum levels as we saw in the first week of october,
that upon completion of the takeover saga that fans would feel a great weight lifted,
they would then turn their 'relief' towards the team and expect an immediate response
that the team would be as emotionally drained as much as the fans, further weighed down by fan expectations
that the squad problems of the preceeding 3 years would be immediately forgotten and no tolerance would be given,
that the season performance in the run up to october 6th and immediately thereafter would be taken out on any manager who happened to me in the incumbent seat.

Hence he would have advised not to appoint Kenny fearing that even if the King was in the hot seat right now the fans would have turned on him.

The behaviour of the fans is WAY TOO ctitical at the mo, there is no compassion being shown after 3 years of incredible internal turmoil.

Has the performance of the team been predictable?
Has the performance of the fans been predictable?
Does it matter who is/was manager, is it inevitable that the consequence of the takeover trauma has led to Zero Tolerance?

So whats the way forward? Sack Roy? NO.

We keep Roy until the new owners have mapped out a strategy and got their ducks in a row and until the fans have got over the takeover battle and calmed down.

I'd keep Roy until the end of the season and accept that we´re gonna end up mid-table as a natural consequence of recent events.

Of course its not what people want to hear but there are always consequences of actions and after 3 years of massive turmoil, we have an almighty complex to get over before we can start to move forward. Again... something T&T are grossly responsible for.

[stmichael]

Has the performance of the team been predictable?

Yes, ever since I witnessed the debacle away at Birmingham when we should have got spanked. I've seen absolutely no change in our negativity or play since. You could pretty much have written the script before every match. Even more worrying is it's become predictable to the opposition who basically can see that if you have a right go at us and press the ball we have no answer and fall to pieces.

I'm now expecting to get beat going into games which is something I've never experienced before as a fan especially over the past few years. It's come to the stage now where I saw Samba getting sent off last night for Blackburn and my first thought was "I wonder if he'll be suspended against us next week? That's a big miss for Blackburn". That's what it's come to. In previous season's I'd be going to a home game against Blackburn expecting to wipe them off the face of the earth whoever they had playing.

[bunglemark2]

Has the performance of the team been predictable?

Yes, ever since I witnessed the debacle away at Birmingham when we should have got spanked. I've seen absolutely no change in our negativity or play since. You could pretty much have written the script before every match. Even more worrying is it's become predictable to the opposition who basically can see that if you have a right go at us and press the ball we have no answer and fall to pieces.

I'm now expecting to get beat going into games which is something I've never experienced before as a fan especially over the past few years. It's come to the stage now where I saw Samba getting sent off last night for Blackburn and my first thought was "I wonder if he'll be suspended against us next week? That's a big miss for Blackburn". That's what it's come to. In previous season's I'd be going to a home game against Blackburn expecting to wipe them off the face of the earth whoever they had playing.

Gotta admit - that was my thought immediately I saw he was sent off for Blackburn....at least ONE silver light for the game against them...

[Reg]

Ok but what about my analysis of fan behaviour, are we being far too critical simply becuase of an adrenalin rush after the take over battle victory and not taking into account the physical and mental state of the players who were even closer to the drama than we were?

[yellsub66]

In my opinion, in modern football the coach is always the weak link that breaks when things go wrong, but the coaches are rarely the explanation to a club's problems.

I think it was a mistake that many posters explained all the problems of Liverpool with Rafa, and I won't make the same mistake with Roy.

I also think that a man with a long career like Hodgson cannot be treated like a handkerchief and be sacked now. I think it's too late to think in the top four, but I don't think we have relegation danger, so I would keep Hodgson no less than until summer, and I'd give him funds this winter.

Sabre...I cannot believe you think that Hodgson should be given till the end of the season. HE NEEDS TO GO NOW 

Any Liverpool manager who believes that it is okay to lose the Merseyside Derby in the manner that we did last weekend is SERIOUSLY DELUDED! (whilst publically stating that was the best he had seen us play...totally unbelievable!!) Hodgson's tactics are so poor that Fernando Torres is forced to play like Emile Heskey (without Emile's brute strength). Hodgson clearly hasn't got a clue how to turn this around, judging by his recent press conferences. He comes across as a weary old man!

We need someone who up up for the fight and has a WINNING mentality.
90% of the football (if one can call it that) we have played this season has been utter s**t!! I have been embarrassed to even discuss Livepool with other teams fans. We are becoming a laughing stock!!

Part of the blame lies with the players, but Hodgson's outdated and defensive tactics have clearly sapped any confidence from the team. How he can bench Agger is beyond me? This is the modern era of football. We need defenders that can bring the ball out and play a bit...not just hoof and hope (are you listening Carra??)

I would not trust Hodgson to spend any January transfer kitty wisely...and to be honest if he is still here after Christmas...how many deteats will we have suffered??

I wanted to like the guy and thought he was a gentleman when he was Fulham's manager. However it is clear he is NOT for Liverpool and I believe he knows this. His succession of poor press interviews with a stream of misplaced comments and sentiments has really 'done for him' I'm afraid. He didn't stand up to Fergie, he didn't back the anti Hicks/Gillett protests by fans and in each post match interview he seems to be making excuses, whilst becoming increasingly antagonistic!!

Please go now Roy...you know it makes sense!

[bunglemark2]

Ok but what about my analysis of fan behaviour, are we being far too critical simply becuase of an adrenalin rush after the take over battle victory and not taking into account the physical and mental state of the players who were even closer to the drama than we were?

I'm sure opening their weekly pay cheques is a huge relief to every single one of them. Doesn't wash with me I'm afraid...

[stmichael]

Ok but what about my analysis of fan behaviour, are we being far too critical simply becuase of an adrenalin rush after the take over battle victory and not taking into account the physical and mental state of the players who were even closer to the drama than we were?

it's the world we live in mate. fans aren't like they used to be in the old days (just ask supersub) . as for the players, they're so far removed from reality these days it's hard to feel any sympathy for them. when you hear managers coming out and saying that their players are "tired" it deos my head in like you wouldn't believe.

too many fans these days are too easily led by public opinion about the team and manager. personally i prefer to judge them based on watching them live week in week out. even then, a lot of the time at games these days, even when rafa was there, was full of people who would rather boo the team (after going top of the league) or hurl incessant abuse at lucas for 90 minutes after he's made a mistake (even though gerrard had probably made just as many mistakes if not more).

i think in this instance given what has been going on off the pitch the fans are overly emotional but that's only because they care so much. they've seen what was a historic week in the club's history clouded at the end by the reality that the team is as poor as any of us could ever remember. unfortunately this "liverpool way" of us supposedly being the most patient fans in the country and giving our managers time doesn't exist anymore. football has moved on and you have to do what you have to do to survive. at the moment we're in danger of sinking faster than the titanic.

what sums it up for me is the napoli game on thursday is the first game i'll have missed watching in years and it doesn't even bother me in the slightest. i just can't get up for it and expect us to get spanked anyway. sunday is far more important against blackburn when it'll be back to the same old same old torment.

but hell that's why we're football fans.

[Sabre]

Sabre...I cannot believe you think that Hodgson should be given till the end of the season. HE NEEDS TO GO NOW 

Any Liverpool manager who believes that it is okay to lose the Merseyside Derby in the manner that we did last weekend is SERIOUSLY DELUDED!

That's ok because I've been deluded according to this forum for years for defending Rafa 

Seriously, I understand your feelings and you being dissapointed, so am I. But unless we have a serious and respected manager internationally like Hiddink available, I wouldn't advocate for a change.

[Kopite25]

Ok lets look at this from a different angle. If the club spoke a few months ago to a psychiatrist and asked the affect of the ownership drama on a motivated social group (LFC supporters) bearing in mind the anticipated stressful run up to the October 6th deadline, what response would he have given?

the group stress levels would gradually intensify in the 2 months before the deadline peaking at maximum levels as we saw in the first week of october,
that upon completion of the takeover saga that fans would feel a great weight lifted,
they would then turn their 'relief' towards the team and expect an immediate response
that the team would be as emotionally drained as much as the fans, further weighed down by fan expectations
that the squad problems of the preceeding 3 years would be immediately forgotten and no tolerance would be given,
that the season performance in the run up to october 6th and immediately thereafter would be taken out on any manager who happened to me in the incumbent seat.

Hence he would have advised not to appoint Kenny fearing that even if the King was in the hot seat right now the fans would have turned on him.

The behaviour of the fans is WAY TOO ctitical at the mo, there is no compassion being shown after 3 years of incredible internal turmoil.

Has the performance of the team been predictable?
Has the performance of the fans been predictable?
Does it matter who is/was manager, is it inevitable that the consequence of the takeover trauma has led to Zero Tolerance?

So whats the way forward? Sack Roy? NO.

We keep Roy until the new owners have mapped out a strategy and got their ducks in a row and until the fans have got over the takeover battle and calmed down.

I'd keep Roy until the end of the season and accept that we´re gonna end up mid-table as a natural consequence of recent events.

Of course its not what people want to hear but there are always consequences of actions and after 3 years of massive turmoil, we have an almighty complex to get over before we can start to move forward. Again... something T&T are grossly responsible for.

Reg I do agree with a fair bit of what you say but i genuinely don't have faith in Roy taking us to mid-table.

Call me a scaremongerer if you like but I don't buy into this we're too good or big a club to go down.

I lived in Leeds at the time they were relegated and also went too 70% of their games that season (was given a season ticket free from a mate at work) and I can assure you that their team that season was fair better than what we are currently seeing. They may not have had the star names left by then but they were a more cohesive team than what we are currently.

I genuinely fear we could go that way if Roy is left in charge.

He doesn't have the balls to drop players that need dropping mainly Carra ,Skirtle. Poulson (as that will be seen as a mistake by him if he doesn't play him). He talks about his 35 yrs exp but can not see with all that exp that the system needs to be changed.

For me it has to be 4-4-2 along the lines of


Kelly    Soto     Agger     Konch


Johnson  Stevie    Raul    Cole / Jovanavic


       Babel            Nando 


Let the full backs defend and use the wide midfielders too add width and stretch teams. That front 6 has pace and flair. Stevie and Raul don't need to drop deep to collect the ball if Agger is there and Soto & Kelly add a bit of an ariel presence at both ends.


Sorry wandered a bit off topic there but was just to make my point about Roy not having the balls to change anything.

Personally i like the guy and i do believe we should (under normal cicumstances) allow a manager time, but 19th in mid Oct is not normal circumstances is it.

We have scored 1 goal from open play this season 7 yes 7 in total but are incapable of not conceading.

All in al i have reached the point of no return with Roy and for the greater good he must leave sooner rather than latter before the damage he is causing is beyond repair.

[worcester_red]

Sabre...I cannot believe you think that Hodgson should be given till the end of the season. HE NEEDS TO GO NOW 

Any Liverpool manager who believes that it is okay to lose the Merseyside Derby in the manner that we did last weekend is SERIOUSLY DELUDED!

That's ok because I've been deluded according to this forum for years for defending Rafa 

Seriously, I understand your feelings and you being dissapointed, so am I. But unless we have a serious and respected manager internationally like Hiddink available, I wouldn't advocate for a change.

Do you really think another manager could do worse though, or do you realisticly think Hodgson can turn this around? becuase in the same way as Rafa lost his way in the final season I don't think Hodgson ever had a way. I am astonished and bewildered how badly we are currently playing and I don't see any glimmer of recovery. I really thought the ownership saga was a big factor in our displays but it doesn't seem that it was, although it is of course brilliant that we finally got rid of tw1t and tw@t, especially with them loosing lots of money. 

[jacdaniel]

The problem with Roy and half the other English managers in the world is that they are small time managers, used to managing small time, mid table clubs.

Them kinda teams don't have much expectations other than finish as high as possible.  Its a win win situation for the managers to be in.  (Once they don't do totally sh.it).

And Roy did this at Fulham.  He finished 7th in the league and qualified for Europe.  There was no expectations at all on Fulham to succeed in Europe or beat the likes of Juve.  Roy really benefited from the underdog card.
Harry Redknapp has done similar things for Spurs.  (lets see how they handle the pressure this year).

You can see Roy is trying to do the same thing at Liverpool.  He is constantly playing down our chances of any success in the hope that he can use this underdog status.

The problem is, we are Liverpool FFS... we're not some midtable club that expects an early onslaught at Goodison.  In his interviews, Roy speaks like a loser when what we need is a winner.