Liverpool FC Forum

[Sir Roger]

An 8 for me , plenty more good times from Rafa and the team to come . I still have my head buried in the sand - oops sorry i meant i still believe and have faith in him . 

The post was better before you edited it mate. Once more we are seeing the "ooh aren't I clever" phenomenon on here. Why oh why will people not learn, both sides do it and it doesn't matter how many times you point it out.

Pro's being pro's are back slapping away, getting little digs in where they think they are deserved. There's people talking with irony about how Man Utd are a "poor side", people imploring posters to HAVE SOME FAITH IN THE MANAGER!!!!!!!! and now the irony of the "head in the sand jibe".

We watch football for all these years and still we don't pick up on the little nuances. You take three goalkeepers to World Cups not because you'll ever need them, but because you know that if you don't the two goalkeepers you do take will get injured on the bumber cars. It's the laws of football. You have striker back up at all times because you know the minute you don't, both of your strikers will get injured and you'll lose your chance of winning the league. The laws of football again. And you don't get too full of yourself when things go right, because you absolutely know what will happen next. Don't tempt fate lads, FFS.

To that end, I didn't agree with Rafa talking about how Man Utd were "weak" if you attacked them in this way and that way. Apparently hoofing it out of defence so Vidic could fall over it and then Torres could score was part of the grand plan. It looked a bit gloaty to me, and will once again tempt fate a bit. Iwonder if that same ploy will work if we draw them in the Champions League, or whether it's more or less likely to now we've told everyone about it.

The gods of football, don't anger them 

Couple of good posts there
Having watched the man u match five times now (shes going mad but Im not ars.ed) I have to be honest and say that the manner in which we won was far from spectacular in a footballing sense.
Yes Torres mugged Vidic, but it was from a clearance out of our box. Route one, hoofball, etc.
As was the fourth. Each goal being due to the massive mistakes of both Vidic, then Ferdinand not clearing the ball by heading it away. Then we add a penalty and a free kick.
I am by no means undervaluing the massive achievement of battering them tw@ts in their own back yard. Nor am I criticising the way we created and scored the goals. I am just being a bit cautious about maybe thinking that weve turned a tap on here and goals will come gushing out. Theres a renewed energy, belief, attitude thats been missing for a while and long may it continue.
But I agree with you that we shouldnt get too carried away, even though the last week has been the best for a long time.

[Sabre]

Having watched the man u match five times now (shes going mad but Im not ars.ed) I have to be honest and say that the manner in which we won was far from spectacular in a footballing sense.

Bóllocks. You don't watch unspectacular games 5 times in 48 h.

[account deleted by request]

Cant believe how negative people are still being about Rafa. FFS We spanked 2 of the biggest teams in the world and deservedly so and yet people want him out. Well you all he is not going anywhere.

In all honesty, I don't think two games, no matter how brilliant they are will be able to change the opinion about he's the right man for the next 5 years. People have an opinion bearing in mind the whole reign.

In fact, I don't think those who deep down didn't believe he was the man in summer changed their minds when we were top of the table some months. Only a League title will convince the totally unconvinced, and even then, some of them *might* think that Rafa was a tad lucky.

It's normal that the undecided people become a 6 after these two victories, but I didn't and I don't expect many switches from "2" to "5".

Such is the fickle nature of the football supporter, like the concept of love is fickle to some people also. If Rafa's Liverpool does win the league, then what do the people who said they wanted him out and nothing else say about it? What do the people who said he will never win a title have to say about it? Will they all of a sudden just change their minds like the wind changes it's direction? Isn't this a contradiction of the very definition of the term "supporter"? I don't know. It's a parodox.

Certainly not a paradox, ER..... We want what's best for LFC..... I for one will hold up my hands and proclaim loudly I was wrong if he brings back the premiership. An error in judgement I would be happy to admit to.

You see.... I support LFC.... not Rafa Benitez. I only want what's best for LFC. Obviously my opinion of what that constitutes is very different from yours.... which is fine.... horses for courses and all that.

But what will never waiver is my love for the club. Through thick and thin I will always support and love Liverpool Football Club. You want to know what's fickle? It's those false fans who only support the teams that are currently on top.

The term fickle, IMHO, does not apply to any true fan on this forum.... be they antis or pros...... a term that is bandied about too often on this boards with little to no justification.

This great divide that has appeared among the fans with regards to the Rafa issue is the great debate of our club's time. A symptomatic sign that things have snowballed to such an extent that the man has become a bigger issue than the club. We have to stop this fickle issue. No one is bigger than the club. No one should be able to hold the club to ransom... something I believe that Rafa is doing with his actions surrounding both his and the players contracts. No one should be allowed to drag our good name through the mud using the media as a tool. In addition to success I want our dignity back..... and the return to the Liverpool way.

You love LFC as much as I do.... Of that I'm positive. But we see the forward path required quite differently. And the one thing I am POSITIVE about is that the pros are not blinkered and the antis are certainly not fickle.

Top post Conn

[yolz]

The scrutiny and judging of Liverpool's managers have been ongoing since the departure of King Dalglish
In all honesty, a club as massive as Liverpool should not have to endure the years in the wilderness as we have
The easiest and most obvious reaction would be to blame the manager
While I agree some of Rafa's antics have been questionable and some have been clear daft ones,
let's sit back and think..... Who then are we going to bring in as the Guv'nor then?
Rafa wins big games coz in those games, teams won't just put 11 men behind the ball and wait for the break
The present team is probably the best team in the world right now playing on the break
What with Gerrard's determination, Torres' clinical efficiency, and Xavi's control of the midfield,
we can destroy any team on the break
But c'mon, have we been so deprived and starved of success that we're now salivating over 2 wins, abeit over Man U and Real?
We're LIVERPOOL, the most successful club EVER in England
How we measure success shouldn't be an average yardstick
We've spent so long waiting for the league trophy, I say what's a few more?
If Rafa doesn't look long term and builds a team for keeps, rather going for short term CL gains,
then he should go, no question about it.
What I hope happens is that Rafa, or someelse, starts re-building a team such that we can look forward to a sustained run of successes
When we thrashed Man U, they had berbatov, giggs and scholes coming on as substitutes!!
We need a manager that will build a team with depth like that

[Sabre]

Pro's being pro's are back slapping away, getting little digs in where they think they are deserved. There's people talking with irony about how Man Utd are a "poor side", people imploring posters to HAVE SOME FAITH IN THE MANAGER!!!!!!!! and now the irony of the "head in the sand jibe".

Iwonder if that same ploy will work if we draw them in the Champions League, or whether it's more or less likely to now we've told everyone about it.

The gods of football, don't anger them 

Yes, or they might slap you back with a 4-0 and a 1-4. Very true.

The same ploy probably won't work in the CL, among other things, because Manchester United would have doubts to have their line advanced that much. Such is football, when you do something wrong and you're punnished, you might correct your mistakes.

I don't know what would happen if we met them, but I'd put my money on Liverpool.

After all, our European record is much better than them in the last years according to the rankings. Plus, a Manchester United with European refs and not being allowed to defend as they do in the Premier League is far from a team to be remembered 20 years later. Nothing especial. Yes, my money would be on Liverpool.

As for the irony of Manchester being a poor side, I don't know what do you expect. People should be ashamed of trying to minimise a 4-0 victory against Real Madrid, a bit of irony is normal after a 1-4 away at Old Trafford when the SKY "pundits" said Real Madrid were poor and there was no way Manchester United would allow doing that. Surely you can understand Gerrard giving a kiss to the cameras? surely you can understand him after all the stick the team got?

Trying too hard to find buts to a victory is something that can be done, but certainly will get my irony as an answer. If besides doing that, people say it's telling things like it is, then they'll get my laughter. Because yes, you can say we huffed a couple of long balls, but if you focus on that, and you don't mention how we won the battle of the midfield 70 out of 90 minutes, then you're not telling the whole picture.

So, it's not enough to break an incredible winning streak, it's not enough to be as effective as getting a 1-4, now you'll be told that you hadn't enough possession and you used a long ball.

Of course you use a long ball when they have their line advanced and you have Torres, FFS!. Not using it sometimes would be bonkers. Expecting to go to Old Trafford and dominate them in posession when you're 1-2 is unrealistic unless you're a Barcelona at their best. Expecting to be 1-2 at Old Trafford and don't suffer in the slighest in defence is bóllocks.

And I know you weren't reffering to my posts when you wrote the above paragraph, but GYBS' attitude is no worse than anyone here, so I won't accept him being ridiculed just because he defends the team and the players passionately. If he talks about heads in the sand, it's probably because someone talked about heads in the sand a couple of weeks back.

If you were talking about GYBS only, then mention him, but leave the pro-rafas alone.

Some emoticons so that you know the tone of this post         is NOT hostile.

[Sir Roger]

Having watched the man u match five times now (shes going mad but Im not ars.ed) I have to be honest and say that the manner in which we won was far from spectacular in a footballing sense.

Bóllocks. You don't watch unspectacular games 5 times in 48 h.

Ha
Pay attention there sport

I didnt say the game was unspectacular I said the manner wasnt from a football sense.
It was cut and thrust, smash and grab, which is spectacular. But it wasnt a footballing classic was it?

A brilliant win nevertheless and fully deserved against an over-rated team with a dodgy defence.
And I watched the first half again last night
And watched MUTV to see the reaction

[Sabre]

I know you weren't saying that and my comment had a smiley at the end.

But yes, you could say it was a football classic when it got the headlines of Marca, AS, Gazzeta dello Sport, L'equipe, A bola and Olé in Argentina.

For instance the Arsenal game didn't get that repercussion, it's curious that MOTD game of the day wasn't ours. Well it doesn't surprise me in the slightest, to be honest.

Sir Roger, there were many good things to comment about our team in the last game. So many, that focusing in that we scored goals punnishing their defence line with long balls and deeming it unspectacular is a bit... how would I say, trying too hard to find something negative about the team?.

Not that you don't have to mention it, of course you can, but surely someone with the ease to spot football like yourself should comment how well we pressed? how well taken was Aurelio's Free Kick? How we won the battle of midfield without Alonso? How brave is our Torres? How our CB did a hell of a job? How or fans could be heard along he 90 mins?

This things have to be commented? I think yes. What about you?

BTW, I've watched the game 4 times too

[bigmick]

I do wish Sabre if you are going to quote my posts, and try and have a wee go at them you'd actually read them first. I can't even really come back at what you've written, all this talk of "ridiculing" GYBS, and "leaving the "pro Rafa's alone".

The line you need to read is the "both sides do it (the ooh aren't I clever thing) and it doesn't matter how often you point it out".

My "gods of football" is a recurring theme, I've often talked about it. I'm no more ridiculing GYBS that I am ridiculing the most anti of anti's.

Anyway, emoticon away till your hearts content, it makes no odds to the point. Nobody is "trying too hard to find buts to a victory" either, but never mind we can all pretend they are anyway. No need for the FFS either, but there you go.

Anyway, I've lost the will to debate whatever the point was in my post. Oh yes, I was asking people not to tempt fate by being too gloaty. Forget that, tempt away all you like. The goals were all the result oif meticulous planning, we are the best team in the World and Rafa is a genius. There, we can all be happy now.

You guys must post up a guideline on what I'm allowed to say, then I promise I won't get it wrong again. Clearly we're not allowed to talk about the manager when we're losing or not going too well, even if someone who is pro keeps starting threads on him. Even if they start polls on who should replce him, or threads which talk about faith, I mustn't post in them because it winds people up. We're not allowed to discuss how difficult it is to progress in Europe, nor are we allowed to pontificate on how good our opposition there is. I now know that the manner which we score our goals is off limits too, as are light hearted references to people tempting fate by getting too self congratulatory.

It's getting very tough to come on here and say the right thing. I know it's fully OK for people to openly call me a c... and all that, and I know that they want more football threads even though they don't post in them, but it gets a bit baffling trying to keep up with whats going on.

Anyways like I say, I take it all back.  We are fantastic, I am a c..., I'm not a real fan for suggesting that we profited from some direct play, and Real Madrid are great. Think it's time for me bed anyway.

[Sir Roger]

I know you weren't saying that and my comment had a smiley at the end.

But yes, you could say it was a football classic when it got the headlines of Marca, AS, Gazzeta dello Sport, L'equipe, A bola and Olé in Argentina.

For instance the Arsenal game didn't get that repercussion, it's curious that MOTD game of the day wasn't ours. Well it doesn't surprise me in the slightest, to be honest.

Sir Roger, there were many good things to comment about our team in the last game. So many, that focusing in that we scored goals punnishing their defence line with long balls and deeming it unspectacular is a bit... how would I say, trying too hard to find something negative about the team?.

Not that you don't have to mention it, of course you can, but surely someone with the ease to spot football like yourself should comment how well we pressed? how well taken was Aurelio's Free Kick? How we won the battle of midfield without Alonso? How brave is our Torres? How our CB did a hell of a job? How or fans could be heard along he 90 mins?

This things have to be commented? I think yes. What about you?

BTW, I've watched the game 4 times too

Im coming across wrong then
I am not looking for negatives. I am just trying to put things into perspective.
After the game I partied like it was 1999. I loved it. And as I also said in the thread 'Man for Man' I knew we had the measure of them and that they werent the "invincibles" that they were made out to be.

Once again all credit to Rafa and the lads for a magnificent win

[loopyliverpool]

Three times has not sated my appetite for more of the same... favourite moment was the look on Vidic's face when Torres knicked the ball off him, leaving him in some malfunctioning heap on the deck, expectantly hoping the rather heavy legged Van der Sar would save his blushes.. no such luck for the player touted to be 'player of the year'.. made to look a fool by the best striker in the world..Oh Joy of Joys!

[Sabre]

Sir Roger: No, I should apologise too. Look, I'm so tired of hearing bad things about the team when I read articles and when I hear Andy Grays, that I do expect too much to read praises from the fellow fans. My thoughts are Kind of "if we don't praise our team, who will?", we get enough of that perspective from outside. That's where I come from mate.

Anyhow, both you and Bigmick who I addressed before the first thing you did was to say it was a magnificent win of Rafa and the lads. So I apologise if I sound as if you didn't say such a thing mate.

It's just that I think the team deserves the positive comments and those are needed after so much frustration.

[Sir Roger]

Three times has not sated my appetite for more of the same... favourite moment was the look on Vidic's face when Torres knicked the ball off him, leaving him in some malfunctioning heap on the deck, expectantly hoping the rather heavy legged Van der Sar would save his blushes.. no such luck for the player touted to be 'player of the year'.. made to look a fool by the best striker in the world..Oh Joy of Joys!

It was full of great images:

Old Red Nose scowling the day after Red Nose day
Shrek screaming at his team mates then trying to hold his fat head in his hands
The male model with his head sticking out of first Aurellio then Carraghers pocket.
Van der sar doing his finest statue impression
The chuckle brothers at the back: To me, to you!
The rows of empty seats five minutes before the end..

Magic!

[GYBS]

WHat have i done now to wrong you Mick

[kazza]

Once more we are seeing the "ooh aren't I clever" phenomenon on here. Why oh why will people not learn, both sides do it and it doesn't matter how many times you point it out.

Physician heal thyself 

[Boocity]

Rafa showed why he is tactically brilliant against the top sides this week, I wish though that against the lesser teams he would just send the best team out to beat them and not over analyse every game