Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

It's time that everyone came to grips with the fact that Stevie will spend 90% of his time this year playing as a striker or one of the attacking 4 in the 4-2-3-1 formation. It's not the ability to play in central midfield that he lacks, it's the discipline and mentality to play there, especially when he gets moved there three quarters of the way through the game and has to remember how to defend.

The one thing that really stood out to me watching the last half hour against Villa, was that there was no one between SG & Masch, and the front 4. It seemed at times that the formation was not 4-2-3-1, but 4-2-[7 Villa players]-Space-4-[4 Villa Players]. With no link in place, there was no one for the play to go through. Hopefully, Aquilani is going to be able to take that position for us, or otherwise remedy the problem.

On a separate note, if we'd played without the 2 holding midfielders in that match, we would have been destroyed to a greater degree by the pace in the front players Villa started with. Milner, Agbonlahor and Young were all far too quick for any of Insua, Carragher, Skrtel or Johnson, so the extra 2 players helped to deny them space on the counter.

[aCe']

I absolutely disagree with  both posts StMike... its an overly simplistic way of looking at things imo (no offense like) and to suggest that having Lucas and Mascherano in that Villa game helped keep the scoreline 'respectable' is just shocking to me...

Tottenham played 2 in the middle against us and absolutely destroyed us through the middle... Villa played 3 and seemed quite comfortable controlling the game down the middle... to me its pretty obvious that the problem lies in OUR setup, and personnel... If Gerrard is played in the middle i'd be looking more at him starting attacks rather than linking up play higher up... With a 4-4-2 you expect the wingers and forwards to get on the ball more often and provide that extra bit in terms of impact in the final third... the 2 in the middle have somewhat restricted roles, they play the balls to the attacking players, and if the opportunity arises, they try to get on the end of things in the final third (usually wither crosses or from counter attacks)...

Our problem is that even with the 4-2-3-1 we have no one who is able to provide the 3 (Gerrard, Kuyt, Benny) or Torres with the balls behind midfielders or defenders for them to make any sort of impact... Not only do we lack creativity through the middle (Lucas and Masch), we also seem very sluggish and slow in taking the ball out of our areas against decent opposition..

With Gerrard playing there, i dont think that would be that much of a problem, so in that sense we'll be fixing things a little... The biggest worry is that the likes of Torres, Kuyt, Benny, Riera..etc will have to step up their game quite a bit... Kuyt loses too many balls, Torres has been too sloppy in possession in recent games, Riera hasnt started a game yet... To me, Benny is probably our most important attacking player atm...
IF Gerrard is pulled back to the middle, Benny will be the one to look for to cut in from the flank and and try and open up spaces for our other attacking players....

Anyways, to sum it up... Gerrard moving back to a midfield role is the only solution for us as things stand...leaves us with 1 of 2 options.. either stick to the 4-5-1 with Benny playing the Gerrard role... or change to a 4-4-2 with Kuyt playing upfront.. in both cases it would have to mean that we'd be relying heavily on Torres, Kuyt, Benny, Riera to improve in the attacking end and to provide the goals to compensate to what we'll be missing from moving Gerrard.... Not the ideal situation but its our best shot until Aquilani is back i guess...

[tubby]

We should drop Lucas and play Stevie in the middle with Masch. Then Riera on the left and Yossi up front with Torres.

[Dalglish]

The thing Im worried about is that Aquilani probably wont be fit til late September.
In which time we have these games:

Tottenham v Liverpool
Liverpool v Stoke
Liverpool v Aston Villa, 20:00
Bolton v Liverpool,
Liverpool v Burnley,
West Ham v Liverpool, 17:30
Liverpool v Hull, 15:00

Question is; would you play Lucas and Masch in all those games, or would you drop Gerrard back til Aquilani
was able to play?

I think I'd drop Gerrard back; play Kuyt up front with Torres and play Bennayoun on the right
of a 4-4-2.

Crystal Ball Or what ! 

You have turned out right to be worried.

However if we play as we did against Spurs and Villa a few more times this season your worries about the title won't be an issue cos we won't be in the running ! 

What was glaringly obvious in our performance on Monday night was the inability to ping a few decent clever passes together. Villa are a decent side and worked hard to stop particularly Johnson and then Torres, Gerrard etc.....

Lucas and Masca in the middle has on occasion been the answer but it's usually been when we have played against one of the fellow Top 3 or 4 sides when the need to be defensive, compact and organised has been paramount but when we are expected to attack (as we were on Monday ) then there is little by way of creativity coming from either player. Lucas usually cops for the criticism in this partnership but Masca was non existent.

Worrying times ahead and we're not even into September ! 

[Effes]

Gotta admit - I think there were a fair few others on here who said the same.

The thing is though mate - I don't think everyone expects much creativity from Masch anyway.
All we expect from him is to read the play, get back possession and give it short - because that's
all he ever has done.

But for Lucas to then step into Xabi's shoes in that midfield pairing, is asking too much of the fella.

Gerrard is the only one who can step into Xabi's shoes - he knows that role from when he played for Houllier.
He used to ping long balls about like Xabi, and as quickly as Xabi.

Of course - we wouldn't have been in this dilemma if Rafa had signed someone who wasn't injured.

[Effes]

I cant believe this thread wasn't re-visited after yesterday.

Well, it's definitely a viable option I guess - maybe just when we are away from home?

Looking at the games ahead - Stoke at home mightn't be necessary to do this.

Maybe Villa at home?

This was more crystal ball