Liverpool FC Forum

[metalhead]

who said he was world class? don't be so f#cking daft. 

he's a vital part of the team who allows better players around him to flourish. is that really so hard to comprehend? his willingness to constantly make himself available improves the fluency of the side.

nobody can watch the game last night and say that lucas' presence wouldn't have improved gerrard's performance either as he wouldn't have been wasting his time picking the ball up off the centre halfs all the time.

Yes Lucas improves Gerrard's performance, did you watch the Man City game this season, when Lucas played with Gerrard in the middle they looked like the worst pairing in midfield.

Lucas is too one dimensional, he doesn't have the quality to be ''Brilliant'' or ''Top player'', never will, the sooner people realize that the better. He is a good solid player who does his job but doesn't add any attacking threat to the side or even has the creativity and flair to start an attacking momentum. He is hard working player who gives away silly free kicks and stops plays. The reason he has improved this season because he is starting to gain experience and maturing to a good solid player, but his abilities are still there, they haven't even changed.

[Zidane]

He's not overrated, people just realize that he is important.  Whether you want to admit it or not, he is arguably our best CM.  Never avoids contact, never gives in to 50/50 challenges, rarely ever gives possession away and runs all game long.  You can put it on how bad our squad supposedly is or whatever you want to put it on but the fact of the matter is that he is a very important player, it's why he is constantly started.  If we were to get Charlie Adam I'm 95% sure that Lucas still keeps his place and Adam is played alongside him and we revert to a Xabi/Masch style midfield.  Where that leaves Raul and Stevie, I don't know.. I would hate to see a Adam/Stevie midfield though.  He's still improving and still young I think Kenny will push him on to an even further level.

[stmichael]

we look awful 95% of the time gerrard plays in central midfield full stop, whoever it's with. he's not a central midfielder. gerrard and mascherano looked equally awful most of the time they played together in a midfield two.

metalhead, lets just agree to disagree on lucas.

[worcester_red]

He's not overrated, people just realize that he is important.  Whether you want to admit it or not, he is arguably our best CM.  Never avoids contact, never gives in to 50/50 challenges, rarely ever gives possession away and runs all game long.  You can put it on how bad our squad supposedly is or whatever you want to put it on but the fact of the matter is that he is a very important player, it's why he is constantly started.  If we were to get Charlie Adam I'm 95% sure that Lucas still keeps his place and Adam is played alongside him and we revert to a Xabi/Masch style midfield.  Where that leaves Raul and Stevie, I don't know.. I would hate to see a Adam/Stevie midfield though.  He's still improving and still young I think Kenny will push him on to an even further level.

Rarely gives possession away??? You mean apart from all the freekicks around our 16 yard box?

He is though probably our best DM at the moment and that is just so damned depressing.   

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

The Lad was missed greatly earlier ,anyone who cant see the space he frees up for the likes of Gerrard and Meireles to run into isn't watching ....the Lad consistently breaks up play and his distribution is at times faultless ....another thing posters seem to conveniently  miss is we generally hold a  higher line when Lucas is included in the midfield ,I mean just look at the way we were under the cosh for long periods in the second half because Gerrard tends to drop off so deep .......  its getting that way that Lucas is now essential to the team in order to keep our shape ......if he is fit he should play its as simple as that ,we could have lost that match earlier because there was nobody there to keep harrying their midfielders .....the second half Fulham just looked to comfortable on the ball ,this wouldn't have happened with Lucas deployed there .....ffs some things are just obvious people

Ill say this again then shall I  ? anyone feels the need to refute this  then feel free ....only have a clue then put it into a sentence preferably with  words that don't include sideways   
I am not saying he is the best in the world  in any way shape or form ,all I am saying is his importance to the team should be recognised and not dismissed

[metalhead]

The Lad was missed greatly earlier ,anyone who cant see the space he frees up for the likes of Gerrard and Meireles to run into isn't watching ....the Lad consistently breaks up play and his distribution is at times faultless ....another thing posters seem to conveniently  miss is we generally hold a  higher line when Lucas is included in the midfield ,I mean just look at the way we were under the cosh for long periods in the second half because Gerrard tends to drop off so deep .......  its getting that way that Lucas is now essential to the team in order to keep our shape ......if he is fit he should play its as simple as that ,we could have lost that match earlier because there was nobody there to keep harrying their midfielders .....the second half Fulham just looked to comfortable on the ball ,this wouldn't have happened with Lucas deployed there .....ffs some things are just obvious people

Ill say this again then shall I  ? anyone feels the need to refute this  then feel free ....only have a clue then put it into a sentence preferably with  words that don't include sideways   
I am not saying he is the best in the world  in any way shape or form ,all I am saying is his importance to the team should be recognised and not dismissed

Important to the team that is fighting for a europa league spot, yes I agree. But for a championship winning team or title challenging team squad player at best and we need players like Mascherano, Hamann and Alonso to fill in the role.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

The Lad was missed greatly earlier ,anyone who cant see the space he frees up for the likes of Gerrard and Meireles to run into isn't watching ....the Lad consistently breaks up play and his distribution is at times faultless ....another thing posters seem to conveniently  miss is we generally hold a  higher line when Lucas is included in the midfield ,I mean just look at the way we were under the cosh for long periods in the second half because Gerrard tends to drop off so deep .......  its getting that way that Lucas is now essential to the team in order to keep our shape ......if he is fit he should play its as simple as that ,we could have lost that match earlier because there was nobody there to keep harrying their midfielders .....the second half Fulham just looked to comfortable on the ball ,this wouldn't have happened with Lucas deployed there .....ffs some things are just obvious people

Ill say this again then shall I  ? anyone feels the need to refute this  then feel free ....only have a clue then put it into a sentence preferably with  words that don't include sideways   
I am not saying he is the best in the world  in any way shape or form ,all I am saying is his importance to the team should be recognised and not dismissed

Important to the team that is fighting for a europa league spot, yes I agree. But for a championship winning team or title challenging team squad player at best and we need players like Mascherano, Hamann and Alonso to fill in the role.

Sorry mate cant agree on this one ... Dalglish's teams were built on teamwork ,and  players that fitted into their  role perfectly each one with specific instructions and tasks to perform ..there was no individuals no stand out superstars, the football was simple and effective and a joy to watch every player totally in sync with each other .....so with that said ,be honest MH because you strike me as someone who proffers his candid opinion  .......so who if you had to  pick from the current team is the most consistent and reliable player you could choose from the current crop .... and be honest who  you opt for.... as for you suggesting a player the calibre of Little Chief is what we need ....I  think I would have little argument, if I said I believed we would miss Mascherano when he left ....but the job Lucas has done in his absence has for me been highly impressive ,and the Lad keeps getting better and better every game he plays ....first name on the team sheet for me every time

[redtrader74]

Lucas has played well, well as well as he can! The sad fact of the matter is that he has become integral to our team as he is the ONLY disciplined midfielder in our ranks, his importance has come about because we have gone from 'having the best midfield in the world' to an average one. At the moment he IS important to our team and does help the team tick, but in reality he does not have the strength, burst of pace and strong tackle required to be a top class defensive midfielder. A squad member at best going forward, but for now a definite starter.

[redtrader74]

The Lad was missed greatly earlier ,anyone who cant see the space he frees up for the likes of Gerrard and Meireles to run into isn't watching ....the Lad consistently breaks up play and his distribution is at times faultless ....another thing posters seem to conveniently  miss is we generally hold a  higher line when Lucas is included in the midfield ,I mean just look at the way we were under the cosh for long periods in the second half because Gerrard tends to drop off so deep .......  its getting that way that Lucas is now essential to the team in order to keep our shape ......if he is fit he should play its as simple as that ,we could have lost that match earlier because there was nobody there to keep harrying their midfielders .....the second half Fulham just looked to comfortable on the ball ,this wouldn't have happened with Lucas deployed there .....ffs some things are just obvious people

Ill say this again then shall I  ? anyone feels the need to refute this  then feel free ....only have a clue then put it into a sentence preferably with  words that don't include sideways   
I am not saying he is the best in the world  in any way shape or form ,all I am saying is his importance to the team should be recognised and not dismissed

Important to the team that is fighting for a europa league spot, yes I agree. But for a championship winning team or title challenging team squad player at best and we need players like Mascherano, Hamann and Alonso to fill in the role.

Sorry mate cant agree on this one ... Dalglish's teams were built on teamwork ,and  players that fitted into their  role perfectly each one with specific instructions and tasks to perform ..there was no individuals no stand out superstars, the football was simple and effective and a joy to watch every player totally in sync with each other .....so with that said ,be honest MH because you strike me as someone who proffers his candid opinion  .......so who if you had to  pick from the current team is the most consistent and reliable player you could choose from the current crop .... and be honest who  you opt for.... as for you suggesting a player the calibre of Little Chief is what we need ....I  think I would have little argument, if I said I believed we would miss Mascherano when he left ....but the job Lucas has done in his absence has for me been highly impressive ,and the Lad keeps getting better and better every game he plays ....first name on the team sheet for me every time

No superstars? Individuals? Our team back then was hardworking, but we also had Barnes, Beardsley and Rush, considered superstars of the day.

[metalhead]

Sorry mate cant agree on this one ... Dalglish's teams were built on teamwork ,and  players that fitted into their  role perfectly each one with specific instructions and tasks to perform ..there was no individuals no stand out superstars, the football was simple and effective and a joy to watch every player totally in sync with each other .....so with that said ,be honest MH because you strike me as someone who proffers his candid opinion  .......so who if you had to  pick from the current team is the most consistent and reliable player you could choose from the current crop .... and be honest who  you opt for.... as for you suggesting a player the calibre of Little Chief is what we need ....I  think I would have little argument, if I said I believed we would miss Mascherano when he left ....but the job Lucas has done in his absence has for me been highly impressive ,and the Lad keeps getting better and better every game he plays ....first name on the team sheet for me every time

Dalglish had a great team back in the day, He had players who are footballers not athletes who we are seeing in modern football.

Yes, I would agree that I would pick Lucas as Mr. Reliable and a consistent player. However, I don't think he is the type of player we need to push for the title. He is very limited, and it shows in most games. He strikes me as a very hard working ala Kuyt type of player who gives a 110% to the team, but he doesn't influence games for me enough to think that we need him for a title challenge. He isn't as good as any of our midfielders we had in the past 3 years. The reason we went so close in 2008/2009 season because we had two absolutely top holding midfield players playing in the side (Alonso and Masch). I don't think Lucas will ever reach that potential, to be honest with you mate I think he already had reached his potential to be a very solid reliable midfielder, when needed he would do a good job. Excellent squad player to have to freshen things up. He has matured into a good player, that is why we are seeing improvements, though I don't think he is the answer.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

No superstars? Individuals? Our team back then was hardworking, but we also had Barnes, Beardsley and Rush, considered superstars of the day.

It seems you have missed my point Lad ...when I used the term "Superstar it was used in the derogatory sense ,like how Prima Donna and Diva is used to describe Today's more fashion concious and material players .... as far as I am aware Barnes ,Beardsley and Rush could never fall into that particular collective
they played for a team and they played as a team

[red till i die!!]

its pretty clear the fanbase will always be split when it comes to lucas.
yes i agree that this season he has been important in an awful side but he has a lot more work to do to erase the many many bad displays he has put in thus far.
is he better than poulsen or spearing? hell yes and lets face it only just and a lot of that has to do with the experience he's gained over 150 odd appearances.
ok so he made the brazil squad again??? , for a nothing friendly in paris,picked by the now brazil manager who was his coach at gremio.also it makes perfect sense to pick a squad who are primarily based in europe.he's got a call alongside da silva,anderson,gomez,andre and a whole load of other players who wouldnt usually play.
he wasnt selected by dunga for their wc campaign despite being a prominent member of a top european team.
brazil over the years have been absolutely fanststic and you associate skill,flair,passion and sheer awe at watching them play.the only thing brazillian about lucas is his passport.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

brazil over the years have been absolutely fanststic and you associate skill,flair,passion and sheer awe at watching them play.the only thing brazillian about lucas is his passport.

I seem to remember Dunga being referred to in a similar vein besides being a very valuable member of a few world cup squads
must be the expectations placed on South American players that they need to be flair players rather than the type every team needs   

[supersub]

It's a shame there are still individuals who fail to recognise the importance of players like Lucas to Liverpool football club........same individuals seem to believe 11 galaticos will bring success .....

[LFC2007]

He is utterly mediocre and after all of this time, I find the high praise he still gets from our own fans absolutely baffling. The view has gained currency that he's a vital player for us - our best midfielder even (incredible) - the "heartbeat of our team" etc.. (or perhaps he is, in which case it would go some way to explaining why we've conceded so many chances and have been so lacking in rhythm) but it's just so far from the truth it is unreal. He does the rudimentary defensive work tidily and efficiently (this season at least), but that is about the extent of his ability. He has hardly anything to his attacking game and unlike a really top DM like Masch, Lucas doesn't have the extra gears, the pace or the physique, the "slide" or the "bite" in the tackle to be considered a top player. He's a shadower, a harrier, a stick your thigh and ar'se in tackler, an intercepter, a decent header of the ball, a hard-ish worker, but not much more. What I will say, though, is that if at some point in the future he's a first team regular in a title-winning side, then he will have proven his worth. With his limitations, I just can't see that happening. You could ask the question about Darren Fletcher, but in my opinion - although both are unspectacular - Fletcher is a better player all-round than Lucas (as is Carrick). Quite simply, one is able to influence the game a lot more than the other.