Liverpool FC Forum

[account deleted by request]

I like him  , I think if he was given more freedom to play HIS game he could be a very decent player. The problem is he seems to stick to the instructions he is given , this may be the reason why he plays so often but plays below what I think he is capable of. The alternative of course is that he is just cr@p 

[aCe']

I like him  , I think if he was given more freedom to play HIS game he could be a very decent player. The problem is he seems to stick to the instructions he is given , this may be the reason why he plays so often but plays below what I think he is capable of. The alternative of course is that he is just cr@p 

I think he'd be tolerable in a 4-4-2 in a fletcher like role with a little more freedom than he gets now...  As things stand, with our system and the way he's being played... hes somewhere between "a waste of space" and "utterly useless" ... A box to box midfielder is what he is, could potentially become a solid substitute but no more imo..

[Emerald Red]

rafas made kuyt into a defensive centre-forward. He just seems to like players who are COMPACT rafas slang for best form of attack is defense? Thats y he doesnt like aquilani.  Ive never seen a more negative cautious manager in my entire life.

Tripe. Houllier was twice as defensive in his set up. If you're going to argue with that, then it's best not even being on this board.

[account deleted by request]

rafas made kuyt into a defensive centre-forward. He just seems to like players who are COMPACT rafas slang for best form of attack is defense? Thats y he doesnt like aquilani.  Ive never seen a more negative cautious manager in my entire life.

Tripe. Houllier was twice as defensive in his set up. If you're going to argue with that, then it's best not even being on this board.

Houllier's team scored more in one season (all competitions) than Rafa's ever have   

[tubby]

I think he is actually worth more now than when he came. He has definitely improved but is still quite bad at times. Then there is the talk of him being played out of his natural position.... As has been said he is a decent squad player.

Anyone know if he will be going to the world cup?

[rocky29]

I think he is actually worth more now than when he came. He has definitely improved but is still quite bad at times. Then there is the talk of him being played out of his natural position.... As has been said he is a decent squad player.

Anyone know if he will be going to the world cup?

you have a point mate. But u carnt blame lucas and kuyt. Because they know exactly what rafa wants from them. Keep it COMPACT and they know they will be teachers pets and be first down on the teamsheet?

[Owzat]

rafas made kuyt into a defensive centre-forward. He just seems to like players who are COMPACT rafas slang for best form of attack is defense? Thats y he doesnt like aquilani.  Ive never seen a more negative cautious manager in my entire life.

Tripe. Houllier was twice as defensive in his set up. If you're going to argue with that, then it's best not even being on this board.

Houllier's team scored more in one season (all competitions) than Rafa's ever have   

LFC Premiership Goals

99/00 : 51
00/01 : 71
01/02 : 67
02/03 : 61

250 goals in 152 games, 62.5 per season, 1.64 per game

05/06 : 57
06/07 : 57
07/08 : 67
08/09 : 77

258 goals in 152 games, 64.5 per season, 1.70 per game

Before anyone accuses me of selectivity, I picked those seasons before looking at the goals scored and with an open mind to the findings. The seasons were picked to avoid first seasons and last seasons and BOTH include the manager in question's best season where they finished second - 01/02 and 08/09 - can't say fairer than that. Having typed that I'll now fill in the figures, I'll leave out overall totals for a season because of differences in games played, since all Premiership seasons have been 38 games under both managers then it is as fair a comparison as can be made.

Rafa has Torres, most would say he's better than Owen who Houllier had, and perhaps you could argue (with backing evidence) that Rafa gets more goals out of Gerrard.

But as it turns out there isn't a lot in it, eight goals over those four seasons. To be honest you could argue the comparison does favour Rafa because the end of last season was completely out of character, 34 goals in 11 games at 3.09 goals per game is so unlike Rafa. Had we not had a goal rush at the end of last season then Houllier would probably have ended the comparison slightly in front. But the truth is both manage their sides to around the 60 goals per season mark and have one season where their side has scored over 70 goals.

Evans does too, 70 goals in 95/96, but I guess someone will always say he wasn't good enough in a points comparison even though you can't even truly compare the two eras because spending has just rocketed. In 95/96 82 points won the Premiership, last time that would have been enough to win the league would have been 00/01, and in the last five seasons you wouldn't have even finished second with 82 points - last two seasons 83 points have finished third and we finished third in 05/06 with 82 points. It will take some fans a few decades to come to grips with the fact football is different now, some may never or even want to because it suits their purpose to ignore such things.

Is Rafa more defensive than Houllier? I think neither was out and out attacking, I think our current side is better than Houllier's but not by that much. It's about time Rafa worked out that we need to score goals to win the league

A question of goals - Premiership top scorers

92/93 : Blackburn 68 (2nd), Man Utd 67 (1st)
93/94 : Newcastle 82 (3rd), Man Utd 80 (1st)
94/95 : Blackburn 80 (1st), Man Utd 77 (2nd)
95/96 : Man Utd 73 (1st), Liverpool 70 (3rd)
96/97 : Man Utd 76 (1st), Newcastle 73 (2nd)
97/98 : Man Utd 73 (2nd), Chelsea 71 (3rd), Arsenal 68 (1st)
98/99 : Man Utd 80 (1st), Liverpool 68 (7th)
99/00 : Man Utd 97 (1st), Arsenal 73 (2nd)
00/01 : Man Utd 79 (1st), Liverpool 71 (3rd)
01/02 : Man Utd 87 (3rd), Arsenal 79 (1st)
02/03 : Arsenal 85 (2nd), Man Utd 74 (1st)
03/04 : Arsenal 73 (1st), Chelsea 67 (2nd)
04/05 : Arsenal 87 (2nd), Chelsea 72 (1st)
05/06 : Chelsea 72 (1st) = Man Utd 72 (2nd)
06/07 : Man Utd 83 (1st), Chelsea 64 (2nd)
07/08 : Man Utd 80 (1st), Arsenal 74 (3rd)
08/09 : Liverpool 77 (2nd), Man Utd 68 (1st)

Only ONCE have the champions of the Premiership not been in the top two scorers, but they have been top scorers or joint top scorers in TEN of the 17 previous seasons. And look at the top scoring totals, we managed 77 last season which was our highest in a Premiership season beating our previous best of 71, that's why we're rarely at the races, we don't score enough. Even 71 is high for us, before last season Rafa's average goals per season in the Premiership was a meagre 58. Between his second placed finish and Houllier's we averaged 59, the most in any one season just 67 inbetween those second places.

So it isn't rocket science, sure we don't want to leak goals but we do need to score them.

Liverpool finishes by most goals

08/09 : 77 goals, Runners-Up
00/01 : 71 goals, 3rd place
95/96 : 70 goals, 3rd place
97/98 : 68 goals, 3rd place
98/99 : 68 goals, 7th place*
01/02 : 67 goals, Runners-Up
07/08 : 67 goals, 4th place

*we conceded 49 goals in 98/99, losing 14 games in the process.

This season we're struggling for goals, just 57 so far BUT we did only score 52, 57 and 57 in Rafa's first three seasons so it's not as if his sides have been freescoring, even with the arrival of Torres which led to us adding 10 and 20 goals to our Premiership scoring totals before this season : 52 > 57 > 57 > 67 > 77 > 57 (with three games to go)

[Sir Roger]

I think he is actually worth more now than when he came. He has definitely improved but is still quite bad at times. Then there is the talk of him being played out of his natural position.... As has been said he is a decent squad player.

Anyone know if he will be going to the world cup?

If he doesnt go to the world cup it will be a travesty. Players are selected on how many times theyve played for their club and hes over qualified.
Surely the Brazilian manager has watched him this season and agrees with Rafa that he is the first choice selection and crucial for a team to play attacking creative football and win games?

[LFC1982]

They're actually picked on Youtube clips!!!

[Sir Roger]

They're actually picked on Youtube clips!!!

Lucas is on "youve been framed."..

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I actually think of what little plaudits were merited at Athletico, and considering it was overall  a seriously  dire team performance ,then Lucas along with Reina deserves the lions share .
Surely I cant be the only one who saw this 

[Sir Roger]

I actually think of what little plaudits were merited at Athletico, and considering it was overall  a seriously  dire team performance ,then Lucas along with Reina deserves the lions share .
Surely I cant be the only one who saw this 

The cream of the cr@p

[roberto green]

I think he is actually worth more now than when he came. He has definitely improved but is still quite bad at times. Then there is the talk of him being played out of his natural position.... As has been said he is a decent squad player.

Anyone know if he will be going to the world cup?

If he doesnt go to the world cup it will be a travesty. Players are selected on how many times theyve played for their club and hes over qualified.
Surely the Brazilian manager has watched him this season and agrees with Rafa that he is the first choice selection and crucial for a team to play attacking creative football and win games?

Tell me you are both having a laugh.

[Kopite -7-]

I think the general feeling is Lucas has been under-par this season, but to judge a young player playing out of position in a team thats under pressure seems unfair to me. Just my opinion.

Dont get me wrong, the lad really frustrates me at times. His decision making can be poor. But, that being said, I think he can be effective in a different system. Playing two defensive midfielders seems wrong to me anyway, unless your playing for a point or seeing out an away leg in europe.  Anyway, I hope the lad improves sooner rather than later.

[Penguins]

The thing is, I believe he'll never be good enough.
This season he has been very poor and average is the best he can ever hope for.

He never tackles, has no pace, tries a through ball every 10th game, poor in the air, very poor defensivly and makes clumsy challenges. You can not loose the ball and just jog back making no attempt to win back the ball.

He can't have the excuse of being too young either. He is 23 years old and has got something like 2 goals and 2 assists in 45 games.

Like Insua and Ngog, sometimes you just have to accept that
some players will never be good enough.