Liverpool FC Forum

[heimdall]

Gerrard and Torres are doing just fine without any competition.

Tevez for 30 million- off ........ we can spend it better ways.

Ribery and Barry could be got for that amount

And how to you know we could them for that amount, are you their agent or something?

So what happens next season if Torres and Gerrard are injured at the same time, do we play Kuyt up front with Lucas in the attacking midfielder position, bloody hell that would scare any defence wouldn't it.



Tevez is a fantastic striker, suited to the prem at the very highest level and would greatly enhance our team.

[GYBS]

In your mind is the sentence "If we had Tevez then I'm not sure Gerrard and Torres would be automatic starts any more" exactly the same as "gerrard and torres wont be automatic first choice if we get tevez" ?

Am I missing something here?   They read as virtually identical statements to me.

You are kidding right, you can't see the difference between those two statements? In the first I am basically saying that they MIGHT not be automatic choices in the other I would be saying that they definitely will NOT be automatic choices. In my mind that is more than a slight difference.

Ok its a tiny slight difference but it still says that you think Torres and Gerrard might not be first choice which it in itself is laughable when you consider how good they are and they will always be automatic first choice baring injury .

[GYBS]

Gerrard and Torres are doing just fine without any competition.

Tevez for 30 million- off ........ we can spend it better ways.

Ribery and Barry could be got for that amount

I wish we were after Ribery. 

Will he will end up at Man Utd in replacement for Ronaldo or Other at Barce .

P.S. Found the statement about Lucas and Zidane yet ??

[heimdall]

If we had Tevez then I'm not sure Gerrard and Torres would be automatic starts any more

This is what you said in the Tevez thread .

In your mind is the sentence "If we had Tevez then I'm not sure Gerrard and Torres would be automatic starts any more" exactly the same as "gerrard and torres wont be automatic first choice if we get tevez" ?

I guess it must be, to most sane people however I am merely stating that I think Tevez would give both Torres and Gerrard some needed competition for places and would certainly give Rafa a lot more options. It amazes me how you always twist facts to suit your tired inept arguments.   

there is no twisting anything heimdall - Gerrard and Torres and two of the best footballers in the world - there is no maybe about them being first choice or might not be first choice - the fact you even let it enter your brain for a split second is bad enough - those two would be automatic first choices in every single team in the world .

Ok so you'd play Torres and Gerrard even though they looked in training would you or even if they were having bad games which they have both had this season. All I can say is thank god you're not the manager GYBS. 

And yes you are trying to twist things because you know damned well that I consider Torres and Gerrard as two of the greatest footballers in the game today, but competition for places is ALWAYS a good thing and at the moment they have no competition at all.

Lately you seem to be pursuing these weird lines of argument that make no sense at all. Is it so very hard to admit you are wrong just once, is your insecurity really so great?

Yes i would play gerrard and torres every fecking game - its simple you play your best players - the only time they would both even considered not playing is through injury . Simple as that . Permanent Automatic first choices - end of and i expect pretty much 99.9999999999999999999% of liverpool fans would agree bar the odd plank.

Makes no sense ?!??! your the one saying they might not be automatic first choices if we got Tevez

So even if they played complete garbage and you had Tevez in excellent form sitting on the bench you wouldn't take one of them off???
In that case you must hate it when Rafa subs one of them, how dare he, what an idiot etc doesn't he know who they are??

Please tell me you are kidding about this, otherwise you will fall even further in my estimation, and btw I very much doubt that 99.9% of fans would agree with you on this.


Anyway please explain what you see in Lucas instead of dodging that question, what qualities do you see in him which are missed by almost all other fans.

[GYBS]

Now taking them off during a game is a totally different matter heimdall - your changing the goalposts there arent you .

Off course every player can be subbed if they are playing poor no matter who they are .

You were talking about them being automatic first choice

So which is it ? them starting every game or them being allowed to be subbed

[heimdall]

In your mind is the sentence "If we had Tevez then I'm not sure Gerrard and Torres would be automatic starts any more" exactly the same as "gerrard and torres wont be automatic first choice if we get tevez" ?

Am I missing something here?   They read as virtually identical statements to me.

You are kidding right, you can't see the difference between those two statements? In the first I am basically saying that they MIGHT not be automatic choices in the other I would be saying that they definitely will NOT be automatic choices. In my mind that is more than a slight difference.

Ok its a tiny slight difference but it still says that you think Torres and Gerrard might not be first choice which it in itself is laughable when you consider how good they are and they will always be automatic first choice baring injury .

Oh bloody hell GYBS, stop nitpicking. I have always said how highly I rate Stevie and nando but they have both had, and will continue to have, the opccassional game, in that circumstance Tevez is a good option or how about maybe playing 4-4-2 sometimes against teams like perhaps Stoke who park the bus. All I'm saying is that Tevez would give Rafa a lot more options and would allow him to rest Stevie and Torres without lowering the standard of the team too much. Tevez could give the team another foil in tricky matches where we are struggling.

I really think you are just arguing for the sake of it here and it's very childish.

[GYBS]

And as for lucas as i have stated i think he is good enough Passing,Tackling,Hassling ,Energy , creativity to be good enough to be back up for our midfield while also improvin these skills . He has played 20 odd games for us and him played hasnt disturbed us winning so many games so surely he isnt that much of a hinderance while he has also on a number of times contributed to us winning games . He isnt at the standard of xabi etc in our midfield but you dont expect a back up to be but he is good enough to be their back up.

[heimdall]

Now taking them off during a game is a totally different matter heimdall - your changing the goalposts there arent you .

Off course every player can be subbed if they are playing poor no matter who they are .

You were talking about them being automatic first choice

So which is it ? them starting every game or them being allowed to be subbed

And what if they played like in training? I also mentioned that earlier, there is no shifting of goalposts here. What if Rafa wants to play 4-4-2 for example. All I'm saying is that there could be any number of reasons why with a player of Tevez's ability, who can comfortably play in both Stevie's and Nando's position, COULD replace any of them on the teamsheet. If Rafa makes that decision, instead of me offering it as an option, would you condemn him as well?

[GYBS]

In your mind is the sentence "If we had Tevez then I'm not sure Gerrard and Torres would be automatic starts any more" exactly the same as "gerrard and torres wont be automatic first choice if we get tevez" ?

Am I missing something here?   They read as virtually identical statements to me.

You are kidding right, you can't see the difference between those two statements? In the first I am basically saying that they MIGHT not be automatic choices in the other I would be saying that they definitely will NOT be automatic choices. In my mind that is more than a slight difference.

Ok its a tiny slight difference but it still says that you think Torres and Gerrard might not be first choice which it in itself is laughable when you consider how good they are and they will always be automatic first choice baring injury .

Oh bloody hell GYBS, stop nitpicking. I have always said how highly I rate Stevie and nando but they have both had, and will continue to have, the opccassional game, in that circumstance Tevez is a good option or how about maybe playing 4-4-2 sometimes against teams like perhaps Stoke who park the bus. All I'm saying is that Tevez would give Rafa a lot more options and would allow him to rest Stevie and Torres without lowering the standard of the team too much. Tevez could give the team another foil in tricky matches where we are struggling.

I really think you are just arguing for the sake of it here and it's very childish.

its not nit picking heimdall its getting you to clarify your statement of the fact you think they wont be automatic first choice . Yes Tevez can provide something in a 4-4-2 or Come on against Lower oppositions or start in the current formation BUT it wont ever be at the expense of Torres or Gerrard barring injury.

[GYBS]

Now taking them off during a game is a totally different matter heimdall - your changing the goalposts there arent you .

Off course every player can be subbed if they are playing poor no matter who they are .

You were talking about them being automatic first choice

So which is it ? them starting every game or them being allowed to be subbed

And what if they played like in training? I also mentioned that earlier, there is no shifting of goalposts here. What if Rafa wants to play 4-4-2 for example. All I'm saying is that there could be any number of reasons why with a player of Tevez's ability, who can comfortably play in both Stevie's and Nando's position, COULD replace any of them on the teamsheet. If Rafa makes that decision, instead of me offering it as an option, would you condemn him as well?

Do you ever expect Torres of Gerrard to be sh.ite in training ?!? even if they did have a poor training session they would still be in the first team straight away no matter what .

yes he could play in a 4-4-2 but not in replacement of torres or gerrard if they are fully fit . And yes if rafa did drop torres or gerrard when they are fully fit for tevez or whoever then yes i would question the desicion. You dont leave any of your two world class players out of the team if they are fully fit .

[heimdall]

And as for lucas as i have stated i think he is good enough Passing,Tackling,Hassling ,Energy , creativity to be good enough to be back up for our midfield while also improvin these skills . He has played 20 odd games for us and him played hasnt disturbed us winning so many games so surely he isnt that much of a hinderance while he has also on a number of times contributed to us winning games . He isnt at the standard of xabi etc in our midfield but you dont expect a back up to be but he is good enough to be their back up.

Ok I totally, with respect, disagree. I do not think he is good enough, I don't think he is improving and I don't think he will ever be good enough. I don't want sub standard backups. I want young lads who are pushing the established players for regular starts and I don't think Lucas will ever do that, Spearing just might but I haven't seen enough of him because Lucas keeps taking his spot. It could be that spearing is not good enough but then Rafa needs to use his vast scouting network to find someone who is.

[GYBS]

The problem youo have got is what high quality midfielder would arrive to be content to be back up to Masher and Xabi and Gerrard ?? not many Hence why man utd kept fletcher and improved him - hence why i want lucas to stay and spearing to improve them . Both still very young lads with lots of time to develop yet .

[heimdall]

Now taking them off during a game is a totally different matter heimdall - your changing the goalposts there arent you .

Off course every player can be subbed if they are playing poor no matter who they are .

You were talking about them being automatic first choice

So which is it ? them starting every game or them being allowed to be subbed

And what if they played like in training? I also mentioned that earlier, there is no shifting of goalposts here. What if Rafa wants to play 4-4-2 for example. All I'm saying is that there could be any number of reasons why with a player of Tevez's ability, who can comfortably play in both Stevie's and Nando's position, COULD replace any of them on the teamsheet. If Rafa makes that decision, instead of me offering it as an option, would you condemn him as well?

Do you ever expect Torres of Gerrard to be sh.ite in training ?!? even if they did have a poor training session they would still be in the first team straight away no matter what .

yes he could play in a 4-4-2 but not in replacement of torres or gerrard if they are fully fit . And yes if rafa did drop torres or gerrard when they are fully fit for tevez or whoever then yes i would question the desicion. You dont leave any of your two world class players out of the team if they are fully fit .

This is where I disagree GYBS. If they are not in the right frame of mind or are just not in the "zone" then I would not hesitate to drop them for a game, it might just give them a  bit of kick up the if they needed that, not that I'm suggesting that is the case for Stevie or Nando. It could be that Tevez, who after all is a fantastic striker, lets all agree on that at least, would be better suited against certain opponents.

[GYBS]

Then thank the christ himself you have feck all to do with the management of the club and player selection - The fact you wont hesitate to drop two of the best players in the world is beyond belief when either one of them can produce a match winning goal or performance out of nowhere and thank god our Manager realises that .

[Bad Bob]

Now taking them off during a game is a totally different matter heimdall - your changing the goalposts there arent you .

Off course every player can be subbed if they are playing poor no matter who they are .

You were talking about them being automatic first choice

So which is it ? them starting every game or them being allowed to be subbed

And what if they played like in training? I also mentioned that earlier, there is no shifting of goalposts here. What if Rafa wants to play 4-4-2 for example. All I'm saying is that there could be any number of reasons why with a player of Tevez's ability, who can comfortably play in both Stevie's and Nando's position, COULD replace any of them on the teamsheet. If Rafa makes that decision, instead of me offering it as an option, would you condemn him as well?

I look forward to the day when Rafa rotates Gerrard or Torres to the bench and explains in an interview that he did so because he saw something in training.  I expect you'll be full of praise for the boss on that day, mate, for making a tough call for the good of the team and won't be joining the chorus of dissenters who scream for him to play his best players and knock the fecking rotation on the head.