Liverpool FC Forum

[only me]

How Symbolic that Lucas played part  in the worst Brazil performance in years ,and was ejected...

Did you actually watch any off the games ?

Did you not see that the blame lay firmly on their forward players ?

Neymar and Ganso were absolutely shockingly bad .

i wasn't saying he was to blame i just noted to myself that it is no wonder he is a memebr of a failing Brazil Team...Everyone here is praising us for having a Brazil Int. in our squad But what most don't understand is that he plays for Brazil Because he is in Liverpool. I would say that in this equation he is the one ripping the rewards....Same case was with Insua which played for Argentina. Mediocre players riding the greatness of Liverpool to get a national spot.

Look back at your post and tell me you don't rate Lucas. How many years has this been going on? Seriously? He was by far one of our better players last season and consistently put in good performance after good performance. Consistent being the operative word here!
Can we just for a week or so forget which country he comes from? Because he's Brazilian people like you instantly think he should be playing little flicks and nutmegs and all manner of ball playing skills. He is NOT that player. He is a defensive midfielder who's job it is to protect his back four and he does that very efficiently thank you.
His name will be on the team-sheet more often than not so please get used to it and leave your diatribe remarks about our 'Mr. Solid' alone. And trust me he is solid. Ever seen him injured? Or pulling out of a fifty fifty tackle?
No. I didn't think so.

Yep don't rate him at all sorry 
I wouldn't give any of our players the title of a "better player" in a season which could only be described as owefull and disgusting....If you settle for "Mr Solid" good for you ,keep watching him fouling the opponenet near the box due to lack of speed ,keep see him pass his brilliant 3 feet passes. How quickly we settle for mediocrity...Not long ago we had Mash and Alonso which i hardly call Mega stars but still everyone sees as much better then Lucas...BTW is he even a Defensive Midfielder wasn't he playing a more forward position in his club in Brazil?

[jimmy brighton]

Thats fine OM. That's your opinion and you're more than entitled to it. But I digress. You don't think Alonso and Masch are megastars? They both play pivotal roles for two of the biggest clubs in the world (albeit one finds himself currently being played out of position- although you have to admit they are currently the best club side on the planet!).
Now think back when Masch used to play for us. His determination was ruthless. On more than one occasion though, it proved to be too ruthless and ended up with him being sent-off.
Alonso? Every ball Alonso played must have been at least 3 miles long because he never ever played a 3 yard pass. Is that right?
No. I thought not.
As for the AM/DM question, I preferred Lucas at the end of the season before last because Rafa finally took the reigns off him and we got to see him bombing forward and even scoring. Kenny obviously prefers him as a DM and who am I to argue?
Anyway, all things aside, we'll see what this season brings for him. Hopefully he will push on and have a great season. If he doesn't then I may side with you 

[Penguins]

I just don't like idea of Lucas as a dm.
He isn't that fast, can't make any long passes and he isn't that good at protecting the back four. More often than not he is on the back heel fouling someone outside the box.

He is a player that plays it safe 99% of the time. Taking few chances, keeping it tidy never trying the dangerous ball, backward or forward.

He does what he does well, but in that position on the field which is the engine room I expect more skill, will and endevour than what Lucas has in his locker.

[imouthep]

I just don't like idea of Lucas as a dm.
He isn't that fast, can't make any long passes and he isn't that good at protecting the back four. More often than not he is on the back heel fouling someone outside the box.

He is a player that plays it safe 99% of the time. Taking few chances, keeping it tidy never trying the dangerous ball, backward or forward.

He does what he does well, but in that position on the field which is the engine room I expect more skill, will and endevour than what Lucas has in his locker.

I love to read peoples view on this site without commenting too often, but some of the views on Lucas Leiva are a little perplexing.

like in this post you say he does what he does well in that position, by which i assume you mean DM, but with not enough skill.

I hope this does not seem like a personal attack on you but I have heard a lot of people say this but it must be said, I struggle to think of many DM's  that spray the ball from left to right willy-nilly, or unleash zidanesque twirls on on-coming opponents. In fact if I remember correctly, one criticism of Claude Makele (best DM I have ever seen play) was that the man couldn't pass more than 3m and always kept it simple.

I think the reason you don't find gung-ho DM's is because of what happens if they f**k up. They can't afford to take chances cos if they do the results are catetrophic. Suarez can try a trick or risk left, right and centre as hopefully it will be high in opponents half when a little magic is needed to break down stubborn defences, but I wouldn't feel comfortably seeing step overs from a DM in high pressure situations with strikers bearing down on him, (remember that MUFC keeper that tried it on tevez?).

For me the skill for a DM comes in reading the opponents play, breaking up play or making professional fouls when teams are breaking at us, skillful tackles replace eye-catching passes and step-overs. Off course it helps if you can combine the this with the ability to pick out a pass ala Alonso, but there are not that many of those about. The good thing is that he seems to know this limitation and looks to release as often as possible, and come next season he will be unloading the ball to Adam who can pick out a pass.

Look the guy doesn't set the world alight but last season he was an incredibly safe and consistent pair of hands (or feet rather), and that reliability for a club trying to get some stability next season to mount a decent challenge on the top four is priceless.

[woof woof !]

Good post.

I think too many people confuse the role of a defensive midfielder e.g. Mascherano with that of a defensive playmaker e.g Alonso.

No way can Lucas perform the role that was once filled by a combo of Masch and Xabi, but unfortunately for him it's what some now seem to expect.

[Kenny Kan]

Good post.

I think too many people confuse the role of a defensive midfielder e.g. Mascherano with that of a defensive playmaker e.g Alonso.

No way can Lucas perform the role that was once filled by a combo of Masch and Xabi, but unfortunately for him it's what some now seem to expect.

The thing is, Lucas is nowhere near as good as Haman or Mascherano in that role - is it relative? Well that's debatable because as we've seen with the departure of Hyypia, we still haven't replaced him (it's no easy feat mind) and therefore we're weaker because of that. So yes, arguably it is relative.

We replaced IMHO our best DM (Didi) with another World Class DM Mascher. Then we really down graded in my opinion to Lucas. So again IMHO we are definitely weaker at CB because Hyypia was never replaced and we're weaker with DM's because Mascher wasn't adequately replaced. Even though the majority of supporters (that's how it appears) have come round to the idea that Lucas is now the 'bee's knee's'; I cannot honestly see what all the hype is about. He doesn't read the game as well as Haman, he doesn't tackle or hussle as well as Mascher - yet he's placed on a pedestal and his value to the side IMO is blown way out of proportion.

That said, I don't know if Kenny will go with the the ''defensive midfielder'' this season. He may try and get more of a blend in the middle of the park with two CM's who may strike up some kind of understanding of when one holds back and when one goes forward.

With the players we've signed, I honestly can't see, and in some way am hoping that Lucas' place in the side isn't guaranteed. Come the start of the season his fan club maybe disappointed if the Brazilian is omitted from the team more often than not.

[Thommo's perm]

Good post.

I think too many people confuse the role of a defensive midfielder e.g. Mascherano with that of a defensive playmaker e.g Alonso.

No way can Lucas perform the role that was once filled by a combo of Masch and Xabi, but unfortunately for him it's what some now seem to expect.

The thing is, Lucas is nowhere near as good as Haman or Mascherano in that role - is it relative? Well that's debatable because as we've seen with the departure of Hyypia, we still haven't replaced him (it's no easy feat mind) and therefore we're weaker because of that. So yes, arguably it is relative.

We replaced IMHO our best DM (Didi) with another World Class DM Mascher. Then we really down graded in my opinion to Lucas. So again IMHO we are definitely weaker at CB because Hyypia was never replaced and we're weaker with DM's because Mascher wasn't adequately replaced. Even though the majority of supporters (that's how it appears) have come round to the idea that Lucas is now the 'bee's knee's'; I cannot honestly see what all the hype is about. He doesn't read the game as well as Haman, he doesn't tackle or hussle as well as Mascher - yet he's placed on a pedestal and his value to the side IMO is blown way out of proportion.

That said, I don't know if Kenny will go with the the ''defensive midfielder'' this season. He may try and get more of a blend in the middle of the park with two CM's who may strike up some kind of understanding of when one holds back and when one goes forward.

With the players we've signed, I honestly can't see, and in some way am hoping that Lucas' place in the side isn't guaranteed. Come the start of the season his fan club maybe disappointed if the Brazilian is omitted from the team more often than not.

Good post
Maybe he can adapt and improve like he has been doing (I was going to say he has gone from sh'it to average but I wont)
Im sure KK wil see his strengths and weaknesses and use him accordingly. Good luck to him because despite everything he is a nice guy

[roberto green]

Good post.

I think too many people confuse the role of a defensive midfielder e.g. Mascherano with that of a defensive playmaker e.g Alonso.

No way can Lucas perform the role that was once filled by a combo of Masch and Xabi, but unfortunately for him it's what some now seem to expect.

The thing is, Lucas is nowhere near as good as Haman or Mascherano in that role - is it relative? Well that's debatable because as we've seen with the departure of Hyypia, we still haven't replaced him (it's no easy feat mind) and therefore we're weaker because of that. So yes, arguably it is relative.

We replaced IMHO our best DM (Didi) with another World Class DM Mascher. Then we really down graded in my opinion to Lucas. So again IMHO we are definitely weaker at CB because Hyypia was never replaced and we're weaker with DM's because Mascher wasn't adequately replaced. Even though the majority of supporters (that's how it appears) have come round to the idea that Lucas is now the 'bee's knee's'; I cannot honestly see what all the hype is about. He doesn't read the game as well as Haman, he doesn't tackle or hussle as well as Mascher - yet he's placed on a pedestal and his value to the side IMO is blown way out of proportion.

That said, I don't know if Kenny will go with the the ''defensive midfielder'' this season. He may try and get more of a blend in the middle of the park with two CM's who may strike up some kind of understanding of when one holds back and when one goes forward.

With the players we've signed, I honestly can't see, and in some way am hoping that Lucas' place in the side isn't guaranteed. Come the start of the season his fan club maybe disappointed if the Brazilian is omitted from the team more often than not.

Good post
Maybe he can adapt and improve like he has been doing (I was going to say he has gone from sh'it to average but I wont)
Im sure KK wil see his strengths and weaknesses and use him accordingly. Good luck to him because despite everything he is a nice guy

Double good posts.

It looks like KK will be looking for a lot more contribution going forward from his central midfield this season both in terms of set pieces and assists as well as a fair share of goals and it's quite hard to see where Lucas will fit in with that if indeed that is the case.

[woof woof !]

It looks like KK will be looking for a lot more contribution going forward from his central midfield this season both in terms of set pieces and assists as well as a fair share of goals and it's quite hard to see where Lucas will fit in with that if indeed that is the case.

, not too sure about that, check this out

Lucas playing for Gremio

Video gets going 30 seconds in
(apologies for the sh'ite soundtrack)

[jacdaniel]

yeah i think people tend to get confused by the DM position.  Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi etc are not DM's. 
They sit deep and attempt to control the game through their passing.

I believe Charlie Adam was signed to do this job for us.

A DM just sits in front of the back 4 and breaks up play and covers when say Johnson gets caught in  possession up the opposition end of the field.

[NANNY RED]

doesnt add up this

[url=http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfer-news/Liverpool-eye-Lucas-Biglia-Anderlecht-cut-price-replacement-if-loan-Lucas-Leiva-out-follow

ing-arrival-three-new-midfielders-article781123.html]http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/transfe....23.html[/url]

[Scottbot]

yeah i think people tend to get confused by the DM position.  Alonso, Pirlo, Xavi etc are not DM's. 
They sit deep and attempt to control the game through their passing.

That's true but the very fact they occupy the space in front of the back four and are generally the last line of defence from a midfielder point of view makes them very much a defensive midfielder. People overlook the fact Xabi was in the top 3-4 in the EPL for tackles for a couple of his seasons at LFC. He was an excellent defensive midfielder who could also pass the ball like an angel.

[wrighty (not mark!)]

Pointless getting rid of him after he has just had his best season for the club. I'm not his biggest fan but I'm all for consistency should the player be doing a good job in that position. Maybe we will go 4-2-3-1 with lucas and adam sat back with downing, suarez, merelies or kuyt behind carrol?

[NANNY RED]

Pointless getting rid of him after he has just had his best season for the club.

I agree it doesnt make sense to me , an thats why i think its a bad piece of journo

[imouthep]

Pointless getting rid of him after he has just had his best season for the club.

I agree it doesnt make sense to me , an thats why i think its a bad piece of journo

The issue with the story or fairytale is that we are letting lucas go because we have too many midfielders, and then bringing in another one to replace him.........ok