Liverpool FC Forum

[Penguins]

In 2005 we saw poor players like Biscan and Traore playing out of their skin. I don't know what's happened since then but not everyone seems to be giving 100%.

Well, players are not robots and are affected like anyone else about what goes on around them.

I clearly remember an Article that came out in August where Reina speaks about the lack of investment and that could hurt us.

I am sure the players had hoped for some reinforcements
in the summer to finally take a giant step and instead feels let down and it take the reverse effect.

And no, it doesn't work the way some say:
"Players should shut up and get on with it"

Players are affected and take dissapointment like everyone else.

[Penguins]

Like I say lets stick to the subject matter as the threads not about anyone else. There was absolutely no need to introduce Mourinho into the equation anyway. Given you've finally decided to research Porto, you might want to put up in the Mourinho thread whether or not the UEFA Cup and then the Champions League wins in his two seasons at the helm of that club was good for them or par for the course.

Anyway lets net get into the blanket throwing, this thread is about whether or not the job of Liverpool manager is "doable" under the present circumstances.

But please Mick. My whole point about him which you must agree on is that he has come to the strongest club financially in each country he has managed=set table. Always having more financial muscle than other clubs in that league.
How many unearthed bargains has he ever made?

Like in Inter he bought Mancini and Quaresma for 30 million. Total waste of money. He wasted money like that in Chelski but no one cares cause he had always more money to spend so since he won everyone forgets about it.

[bigmick]

Like I say lets stick to the subject matter as the threads not about anyone else. There was absolutely no need to introduce Mourinho into the equation anyway. Given you've finally decided to research Porto, you might want to put up in the Mourinho thread whether or not the UEFA Cup and then the Champions League wins in his two seasons at the helm of that club was good for them or par for the course.

Anyway lets net get into the blanket throwing, this thread is about whether or not the job of Liverpool manager is "doable" under the present circumstances.

But please Mick. My whole point about him which you must agree on is that he has come to the strongest club financially in each country he has managed=set table. Always having more financial muscle than other clubs in that league.
How many unearthed bargains has he ever made?

Like in Inter he bought Mancini and Quaresma for 30 million. Total waste of money. He wasted money like that in Chelski but no one cares cause he had always more money to spend so since he won everyone forgets about it.

Mate I'm going to disregard this post as it is completely at odds with the subject matter of the thread. Your previous two are good posts (although I don't agree with much of them), this one belongs in the Mourinho thread in Premiership General Discussion.

[Ciggy]

Mourhino is like Marmite you either love him or you hate him, hes a good manager no doubt about it, but his tactics are not easy on the eye either Chelsea where the 1-0 masters under his reign thats why Roman got rid. He wanted to see attacking Arsenal like football from the club he had bought plus that CL trophy that still alludes Chelsea.
And Mourhino's larger than life personality didnt go down to well with Abramovic, imagine him up against our owners there would be trouble every week, he would be asking for money they would say sell to buy he would say fuck you !!!!
Then you have most fans remembering to tell us to SHHHHHH they would not welcome him with open arms and I dont think he suits us anyway to be our manager there is just something about him that doesnt suit LFC.

That list that was drawn up by Parry & Moores contained the names of Mourhino, Rafa, Curbishley & Strachen so I am glad we got Rafa from that short list.

I think the worst thing Rafa done was want control over everything has he taken his eye off the ball taking on to much? He now controls everything in one way its good that he is over everything as the yanks havent got a clue about football, but on the other hand his focus needs to be on the first team and see if some reserve players can break into the team.

The stadium was part of the yanks plans when they bought us, nearly 3 years later no new stadium, the banks are not going to lend them another 200/400 million to build it, so their plans to buy us build the stadium then sell us at a profit have collapsed why they are still here god knows, because things have not worked out the way they planned and I cannot see them being here in another 5 years time if work started on the stadium tomorrow. Plus they didnt bargain on Spurs or City spending fortunes when they gambled on paying the bank loans off with the CL prize money every season.

Where we go from here is anyones guess, I wish I had a crystral ball because everything is going wrong from the owners, Rafa and the players.

[Scottbot]

Same thing there. First you can whine that Rafa spends to much on squad players, quantity over quality and all that and then when he spends big on a few players it is all Rafa's fault for not seeing how thin the squad is.   

So he missed Krancjar. Like Harry ******* Redknapp never missed anyone. Besides we had Masch and Lucas and if he was so great why wewn't manure and chelksi after him?
Why do we always have to bargain chase?
And what if Krancjar would have failed?
Rafa would be burned at the stake for taking a gamble on a player from Portsmouth who hadn't really proved himself.

Calm down lad, despite some cracking buys Rafa's record for picking up a bargain is very poor. You're telling people to stop harping on about Krancjar but Rafa hasn't really made any comparable signings where you've thought to yourself, 'Rafa, you clever bugger, what a cracking bit of business'. Yossi at £6 million looks like a great bit of business but I can't think of any other cheap as chips bargain buys. The signing of Fowler on a free was the only time we've seen Rafa really think outside of the box when it comes to transfers. A lot of people talk about transfer restrictions and the fact our biggest rivals have more money to spend than us, with that in mind we really could do with Rafa picking up a few gems at cheap prices (maybe it's a pre-requisite) or taking a gamble on a player who doesn't fit the perceived image of LFC. Give me a Jimmy Bullard, a Danny Murphy or a Niko Krancjar over our current midfield anyday. Similarly I'd be more comfortable with an Obefemi Martins, a Michael Owen or a Roman Pavylechenko over our current stable of Torres back-ups.

[Scottbot]

Then you have most fans remembering to tell us to SHHHHHH they would not welcome him with open arms and I dont think he suits us anyway to be our manager there is just something about him that doesnt suit LFC.

Deffo agree on that, it would be the weirdest thing in the world wouldn't it? Instead of singing 'Fook off Mouuuurrrrinhooo' it would be 'We love........nope, I can't do it! Like kissing ya sister, totally wrong!

[SouthCoastShankly]

Football is always a gamble mate. Who knew that Torres was going to be such a big success or that Morientes would be such a failure?  We could have stuck with Crouch and hoped against hope that he would be good enough. Sometimes you have to take the gamble if you want to progress. Maybe come the end of the season it will be time to gamble that a new manager can do better ?

We had a similar problem with Houllier, early success followed by a tightening of the purse strings when he was told to reduce the squad and then we stagnated, sometimes history repeats itself.  Should we have stuck with Houllier because changing manager is a gamble ?

Winning the league with record points, unbeaten at home in god knows how many years, 5 league titles in 6 years (one year out of football ) 8 cups in the same period including the CL. Yeah Mourinho is way overated   

Crouch wasn't sold to fund the Torres deal.

I think it is clear that Rafa's failing is his failure to make good enough signings. You can't help but think that other managers would not of made the same mistakes.

[NANNY RED]

Then you have most fans remembering to tell us to SHHHHHH they would not welcome him with open arms and I dont think he suits us anyway to be our manager there is just something about him that doesnt suit LFC.

Deffo agree on that, it would be the weirdest thing in the world wouldn't it? Instead of singing 'Fook off Mouuuurrrrinhooo' it would be 'We love........nope, I can't do it! Like kissing ya sister, totally wrong!

Agreed ,
Thats one way of putting it, i just couldnt do it , i just couldnt

[Ben Patrick]

On the subject of the thread which is not surprsing being derailed at times, then i think another manager could come in with the same scenario and do a better job.

We have good players is the main point in all this.
The squad is bare in certain areas there is no doubt about that.
But if someone came in right now with the same squad, i feel that they could get more out of the players at their disposal.
I am not sure the dressing room is totally lost but there are clearly some disallusioned players based on how they are performing right now.
We are consistently making the same mistakes, regarding defending set pieces.
Playing a midfield two with no creativity and playing one up front behind the most negative midfield quartet i can remember.
Thats bound to lead to disjointed performances and a lack of cohesion.
Any manager worth his cloth could come in and shake it up a bit.
Drop Gerrard back and play maybe two strikers.
Be a bit more positive and just try and get the players motivated.
Rafa has seriously failed in doing that this season.
I dont even need to start talking about names who could do it.
Lets just say there arent many managers that would be doing much worse than Rafa this season with the players that we have at our disposal - despite the terrible injuries.

[stmichael]

if it happens I will discuss it then. there is no chance that rafa will be going anywhere until the end of the season at least.

until then the players need to recognise that they are representing the greatest club in the world and need to start looking like they give a flying f#ck when fans like me travel half way across the country to watch them "perform".

[account deleted by request]

On the subject of the thread which is not surprsing being derailed at times, then i think another manager could come in with the same scenario and do a better job.

We have good players is the main point in all this.
The squad is bare in certain areas there is no doubt about that.
But if someone came in right now with the same squad, i feel that they could get more out of the players at their disposal.
I am not sure the dressing room is totally lost but there are clearly some disallusioned players based on how they are performing right now.
We are consistently making the same mistakes, regarding defending set pieces.
Playing a midfield two with no creativity and playing one up front behind the most negative midfield quartet i can remember.
Thats bound to lead to disjointed performances and a lack of cohesion.
Any manager worth his cloth could come in and shake it up a bit.
Drop Gerrard back and play maybe two strikers.
Be a bit more positive and just try and get the players motivated.
Rafa has seriously failed in doing that this season.
I dont even need to start talking about names who could do it.
Lets just say there arent many managers that would be doing much worse than Rafa this season with the players that we have at our disposal - despite the terrible injuries.

spot on mate, agree 100%

[Penguins]

Like I say lets stick to the subject matter as the threads not about anyone else. There was absolutely no need to introduce Mourinho into the equation anyway. Given you've finally decided to research Porto, you might want to put up in the Mourinho thread whether or not the UEFA Cup and then the Champions League wins in his two seasons at the helm of that club was good for them or par for the course.

Anyway lets net get into the blanket throwing, this thread is about whether or not the job of Liverpool manager is "doable" under the present circumstances.

But please Mick. My whole point about him which you must agree on is that he has come to the strongest club financially in each country he has managed=set table. Always having more financial muscle than other clubs in that league.
How many unearthed bargains has he ever made?

Like in Inter he bought Mancini and Quaresma for 30 million. Total waste of money. He wasted money like that in Chelski but no one cares cause he had always more money to spend so since he won everyone forgets about it.

Mate I'm going to disregard this post as it is completely at odds with the subject matter of the thread. Your previous two are good posts (although I don't agree with much of them), this one belongs in the Mourinho thread in Premiership General Discussion.

Sorry for going it a bit too much ot here 

[Penguins]

Same thing there. First you can whine that Rafa spends to much on squad players, quantity over quality and all that and then when he spends big on a few players it is all Rafa's fault for not seeing how thin the squad is.   

So he missed Krancjar. Like Harry ******* Redknapp never missed anyone. Besides we had Masch and Lucas and if he was so great why wewn't manure and chelksi after him?
Why do we always have to bargain chase?
And what if Krancjar would have failed?
Rafa would be burned at the stake for taking a gamble on a player from Portsmouth who hadn't really proved himself.

Calm down lad, despite some cracking buys Rafa's record for picking up a bargain is very poor. You're telling people to stop harping on about Krancjar but Rafa hasn't really made any comparable signings where you've thought to yourself, 'Rafa, you clever bugger, what a cracking bit of business'. Yossi at £6 million looks like a great bit of business but I can't think of any other cheap as chips bargain buys. The signing of Fowler on a free was the only time we've seen Rafa really think outside of the box when it comes to transfers. A lot of people talk about transfer restrictions and the fact our biggest rivals have more money to spend than us, with that in mind we really could do with Rafa picking up a few gems at cheap prices (maybe it's a pre-requisite) or taking a gamble on a player who doesn't fit the perceived image of LFC. Give me a Jimmy Bullard, a Danny Murphy or a Niko Krancjar over our current midfield anyday. Similarly I'd be more comfortable with an Obefemi Martins, a Michael Owen or a Roman Pavylechenko over our current stable of Torres back-ups.

But wasn't Reina a bargain at only 6 million that is nothing for such a quality gk. Aurelio on a free is what I would call a bargain as well as picking up Arbeloa for 2.5 million. Even Crouch, who Rafa was critizised for, turned out to be a bit of a bargain.
Agger at 5.8 is close to a bargain.

[Penguins]

On the subject of the thread which is not surprsing being derailed at times, then i think another manager could come in with the same scenario and do a better job.

We have good players is the main point in all this.
The squad is bare in certain areas there is no doubt about that.
But if someone came in right now with the same squad, i feel that they could get more out of the players at their disposal.
I am not sure the dressing room is totally lost but there are clearly some disallusioned players based on how they are performing right now.
We are consistently making the same mistakes, regarding defending set pieces.
Playing a midfield two with no creativity and playing one up front behind the most negative midfield quartet i can remember.
Thats bound to lead to disjointed performances and a lack of cohesion.
Any manager worth his cloth could come in and shake it up a bit.
Drop Gerrard back and play maybe two strikers.
Be a bit more positive and just try and get the players motivated.
Rafa has seriously failed in doing that this season.
I dont even need to start talking about names who could do it.
Lets just say there arent many managers that would be doing much worse than Rafa this season with the players that we have at our disposal - despite the terrible injuries.

Well, first of all we don't even have 2 quality strikers and our currebt squad can't cope with 2 up top as one injury would force us to play 1 anyway.

And believe me Kuyt has shown what he can do as a striker already....
And if players are disillusioned one can only speculate if that is down to the current situation at the club or due to the manager.

I do feel we have to smallish players an very few good headers of the ball, both offensivly and defensivly and I want Lucas dropped for Aquilani asap but I still believe strongly that there is no quick fix to this overall problem that is stabilty in the club as a whole. I honestly was surprised it took this long for the 2 clowns ownership to take effect.

It isn't as easy as pressing some damn button to get players motivated. I have been hearing Gerrard in interviews these past few years and often he mentions the importance of investment into the team. Players might not be scientists but they are no mug either. In todays game no investement=no trophies(Sorry, reality) and players will be hit by that.

But it is important to talk about names if he is to be replaced, very important. Both because there has to be vialble options out there who has some kind of pedigree and most important of all they have to have excellent marketing abilty as twit and pack him.
You have no proof that most managers out there would do better than Rafa, as that is you subjective opinion which you somehow try to make out as fact.
The team has a thin squad like you mentioned and just can't afford injuries. Who cares if the 1st 11 is worth 1xx million if only 80 million worth of players is out on the field?

[bigmick]

You have no proof that most managers out there would do better than Rafa, as that is you subjective opinion which you somehow try to make out as fact.

This is a strange arguement. Obviously there is no cast iron "proof" because they haven't had a go at it yet. There is no "proof" that Lionel Messi woulod be better than Kuyt, but my money would be on the Argentine making up for the fact that he can't quite match Dirk's workrate.