Liverpool FC Forum

[aCe']

If he goes to Cherlsea then fair enough, but I still wish we'd got him. Can you imagine what would be getting said now if Rick Parry was still at the club Nice to see that things are completely different now he's gone anyway.

You'll be getting stick for that ...

Its not Parry fault though.. surely not Rafas... its the owners mate... Fcking sccumbags only willing to fork out 18.5 mill to get Johnson   

yep let's get  one of the cheaper options from the championship

he'll be just as good... and cheaper too   

or we can convince Arbeloa to stay...
or get Eboue on a free if we sell Arby... fck me but that would actually bring in money wouldnt it ?!
or get one of the million other players out there who would do a decent job FOR CHEAPER and use all our money to address our real problems...
how much did we get Arbeloa for again ?
how much did Arsenal pay for Sagna ?
Manutd for Evra ?
Inter for Maicon ? ...etc etc...

[andy_g]

its not really adding much to the topic but i think a lot of the top premiership players are beginning to worry about this new 50p tax rate thats coming in. the top earners will get hit hardest and so a lot of them are looking at the possibility of going abroad to avoid the tax or pushing for a big wage hike to minimise their losses. i think there will be a lot more angling from most of the big players at the big clubs over the coming months.

You may ell be right Andy. That said, and I obviously aren't talking from experience, but does it make any odds when you are on 80 grand a week?

Feck me that's 4 mill a year, so even if they take 50% off it's 2 million quid a year, plus all the other b0ll0cks they get in boot deals etc.

If it was me, I wouldn't (I don't think anyway) be overly worried about a couple of extra grand here and there.

that makes two of us... well probably thousands of us actually. taking home 40 or 50 grand a week is still unimaginable wealth to the majority of us mortals (peewee excepted, of course ) - but i'm not sure that these pampered millionaires feel quite the same.

the sport is ruled by money now as we all know and we're seeing that more than ever this summer - which is doubly bizarre seeing as we're supposedly in the middle of global financial meltdown. being in your mid twenties and fully immersed in a world where everything is spoken of in terms of 10s and 100s of thousands of pounds must do something to your perception of money.

apart from all that i'd have to admit that whether i was earning 300 or 100,000 a week i wouldn't be so happy at the thought of the taxman getting half of it. especially if there was a relatively easy way of avoiding it. footballers being what they are are going to stop seeing the permiership as the cash cow it has been for some time now.

[Sabre]

What if we do lose a couple of our best players, say Masherano and Alonso, and we are left in the bizarre situation of having plenty of wonga in the bank, but pretty much nobody to buy as the clubs ain't selling and Rafa can't find the players he wants?

Then I'd have to wonder whether Rafa is the right man for the job.

Because the scenario would be different: Liverpool wouldn't be a top european club, but a club that sell their best players. When you're a team like that, you have to learn to become an Arsenal, don't win trophies, and be spot on on your signings.

You'd also need a manager that uses well the youth system. I'd have to reassess whether Rafa Benitez is the best option for a club that sells their best players due to economic reasons.

Anyhow, without Alonso and Mascherano, I think we can forget about the league. Even if Mourinho comes to Liverpool Mick. Managers might be good or bad, but they can't do magic. Right now, if we lose these two players, or we have Gerrard injured 5 months, that is a obstacle too big for any manager.

[Parkinson]

A whole host of scenarios there, blind me.

I would not "blame" Rafa if his players wanted to leave, its like saying should Fergie get the blame for Ronaldo leaving. If players feel the need to move on because their missus isn't settling in, their fed-up with the climate, looking for a new challenge or simply looking for more money that is their prerogative. But Xabi Alonso's reasons for leaving maybe somewhat different from Mascharano's, the Spainard may feel that he's been undermined or betrayed by Rafa. Last season Rafa was willing to listen to suitable offers for Alonso and if the right price came in I think Rafa may of been ruthless enough to pocket the wedge. However these scenarios are largely down to the players themselves, if they leave its Rafa's job to re-build not take on added blame for them packing their bags.

On the Alonso and Mascharano front if I were Rafa I would dig my heels in with these two and fight tooth and nail to keep them amid the speculation. Maybe face to face meetings with the pair might be a better solution than letting everything go through agents and newspapers to find out what is happening. I bet if Rafa came back from his hols and met up with either one they'd be inclined to stay at the club and when the new season begins they'll forget about all this jargon, as they'll appreciate they're playing infront of the best fans in the world who simply love them. Mark my words, I highly doubt they'll get a better rapore with fans anywhere else in the world and for that alone is a reason why they won't leave.

[bigmick]

Good post Parky but I'm not so sure on a couple of counts. Firstly, although some posters are fond of saying "but it's all speculation FFS" there is speculation and speculation. Now I think it's fairly clear that in the case of BOTH of our central midfielders, the speculation has gone beyond press silliness and has advanced onto the "this could possibly happen" stage. Now it doesn't get to that stage unless there is some input from the footballer. Clearly both Masherano and Alonso are AT THE VERY LEAST considering the possibility of playing for somebody else next season.

This in itself creates a problem, and although the "dig your heels in and tell em they ain't fecking going anywhere" approach is tempting, it isn't always the right approach. You can make em stay but you can't make em play is an adage worth remembering, and unhappy players can have a disruptive influence on a dressing room. Equally, there is something to be said for selling a player while clubs are actually bidding on them. We all remember the Alonso fiasco last Summer when despite hawking the player around Europe we couldn't find anyone in the World who was prepared to pay higher than low teens for him. Just to emphasise here, I'm not saying we should sell either, only that the decision whichever way you go isn't clear cut.

As for the fans thing, I'm not sure it's much of a factor. If Xabi wants his little girl to be educated in Spain, and Masha's missus wants to go somewhere warmer where they speak Spanish I don't think how good the fans are will come into it. In both cases, I reckon if the bloke came Home one night and said "look love I've decided to stay because the fans sing my name really loud" he'd probably get a paella pan round the earhole before he got the words out.

No, if it was me I'd be looking to line up at least one central midfielder just in case.

[Parkinson]

Good post Parky but I'm not so sure on a couple of counts. Firstly, although some posters are fond of saying "but it's all speculation FFS" there is speculation and speculation. Now I think it's fairly clear that in the case of BOTH of our central midfielders, the speculation has gone beyond press silliness and has advanced onto the "this could possibly happen" stage. Now it doesn't get to that stage unless there is some input from the footballer. Clearly both Masherano and Alonso are AT THE VERY LEAST considering the possibility of playing for somebody else next season.

This in itself creates a problem, and although the "dig your heels in and tell em they ain't fecking going anywhere" approach is tempting, it isn't always the right approach. You can make em stay but you can't make em play is an adage worth remembering, and unhappy players can have a disruptive influence on a dressing room. Equally, there is something to be said for selling a player while clubs are actually bidding on them. We all remember the Alonso fiasco last Summer when despite hawking the player around Europe we couldn't find anyone in the World who was prepared to pay higher than low teens for him. Just to emphasise here, I'm not saying we should sell either, only that the decision whichever way you go isn't clear cut.

As for the fans thing, I'm not sure it's much of a factor. If Xabi wants his little girl to be educated in Spain, and Masha's missus wants to go somewhere warmer where they speak Spanish I don't think how good the fans are will come into it. In both cases, I reckon if the bloke came Home one night and said "look love I've decided to stay because the fans sing my name really loud" he'd probably get a paella pan round the earhole before he got the words out.

No, if it was me I'd be looking to line up at least one central midfielder just in case.

My fans statement was more of a sentimental issue and one of the reasons why I said a player could be willing to stay. Other reasons for players staying could be because they are settled in Liverpool (Alonso) I'm thinking here of specifically. He may want his daughter to be educated in England too flunetly speak English and Spanish, for every argument for him leaving there is a counter. Apart from the climate and maybe the missus opinion which is important factor also.

Lets not forget about Walter Tamer, Mascharano's agent. He is the one telling the tabloids that Javier's wife is unsettled this could be a simple case of upping the anty (wage) for his player. If both Alonso and mascharano told Rafa face to face they had the hearts set on a move to Spain, well then Rafa could begin the process of looking for new replacements.

However if I were to go and line-up a potential replacement for either player without them telling me they wanted a move away. I certainly would not advertise it, equally that could be the final nail in the coffin as far as our midfield duo are concerned, especially if they got wind of it.

Like I said Rafa should speak to them and play it by ear find out what they think and what they think the future bodes for them. I would not hit the panic stations just yet because some of my key players are reported as 'unsettled'. Ride it out, see what they say and go from there. However if they decided to move it would not be Rafa's fault. Again if they moved on and Rafa did not have an imminent replacement lined up which could be for a whole host of reasons unbeknown to us, I would not "blame" Rafa. I would be more angry at the fact he did not do his utmost to keep them at the club. Their just not any old players one can replace by scouting quickly around Europe for, they are key players and ones that need to be made to think twice about leaving.

[destro]

I agree they should come out and say if they want to stay or not, as far as Mascherano goes he is represented by the same bloke who is trying to force United into making Tevez their top wage earner, which no doubt he will get a little slice of himself.

So if its all about the money off you go son.

The Alonso situation IMO is different, he knows he would have gone if Barry had joined the first time, so despite the fact I want him to stay he is entitled to be slightly p!ssed and I would have no ill feeling if he decided himself he wanted to move.

I have said before that he could have let his head drop and played poorly last season but he didnt, he had a fantastic season and in doing so probably bumped his transfer fee up in the process.

I would be gutted if he left because if we want to challenge for Trophies then we need to keep our best players, but we cant have it both ways, we need to treat them like they are best players  and not try to ship them out then realise how good he is and tell him we want him to stay.

So far all I have read is from agents and reporters, until they comne out and say what they want to do they get my full support, when and if they decide to speak out if they want to stay great ,if they want to go one will lose all respect from me the other will go with my blessing and thanks.

[The_Rock]

or is it because he doesn't give it the old arm around the shoulder routine?

There is only so far Benitez can go by treating players like pawns..... Eventually the players are gonna act like one. They are gonna become practical.

"If torres gets a huge wage increase why can't i ?".....    seems to be what they will be thinking.

Benitez man-mangement $ucks.... and he hasn't been long enough in previous clubs to see the adverse efffects of this. He has been here for 5 years...and we are slowly gonna see more of players wanting to leave...

[supersub]

its not really adding much to the topic but i think a lot of the top premiership players are beginning to worry about this new 50p tax rate thats coming in. the top earners will get hit hardest and so a lot of them are looking at the possibility of going abroad to avoid the tax or pushing for a big wage hike to minimise their losses. i think there will be a lot more angling from most of the big players at the big clubs over the coming months.

What you mean is , they are that fu.cking greedy and selfish, picking up £70,000 each week after tax is such an abomination they feel justified in holding me and my club to ransom....
   Thieves

[bigmick]

It's rare, but I 100% agree with Supersub here.

[tonyeh]

Post deleted.

Nothing to do with the original topic anyway.

[akumaface]

This is basically a money game. If masher and Alonso really wanted to go, there is nothing we can do to stop this. Even if they stay while their heart is not here, there is no point keeping them either. Today, most professional althetes are selfish . They would not tell you they will leave or officially put in a written request as this would put them in an inferior position. If they lie about their intention, they have more room to manuver behind the scene until they make certain they know what they are going to get out there. Thus, these players will keep denying them and let their agent go behind the back of the club to find out as much as they can. Once they are certain, they will then force the club's hand without thinking that would put the club into a really difficult position. Whether the club can have enough time to get a replacement will not be their concern at all. Majority of them will not think about their obligation about their club. This is just the way it is. Most of the nice thing they say is only trying to preserve their own image and for their own public relation purposes.

[Reg]

Post deleted.

Nothing to do with the original topic anyway.

Dont break a habit mate!

[tonyeh]

Ooooooohhhhhhhhhh.....

....Cheeky monkey!


   <--- I'm sending one of these after you now, Reginald.