Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

It's true you know? (Cue comment from Stu the Red that Gerrard is a world class player but doesn't have world class ability in any particular area or some nonsense like that).

http://wc2006.telegraph.co.uk/Documen....05F5F9D 

Gerrard plays well for his club because of the quality foreign players around him? What a joke that is. He's widely recognised as one of the finest strikers of a ball, passing or shooting, in Europe. In terms of his technique, he's simply one of the best around, surgically precise. He's got great vision, strength which he uses to good effect with those surging runs through the opposition and good positional awareness. He scored over twenty goals last season playing predominantly off the right of midfield, then after almost twelve months of non-stop football went to the World Cup and scored one with his head and one with his left peg. But he's not "world class"?

What more do you want him to do, whistle Dixie and sh#t sixpences?    

Other than that, the article isn't too bad in that it at least attempted to offer some sort of explanation (beyond managerial short-comings) as to why England continue to falter.

I also don't quite understand the love-in with Wenger. He gets a generous press IMO. Last year they scraped fourth by the skin of their teeth. And over the years he has bought some terrible players. All managers have a mixed record in the market, but Wenger's mistakes don't seem to be remembered by the journalists.

My final thought on England is that I can't help but think we would have had a great chance to win this World Cup with someone like a Venables preparing the team and tactics. Lennon on the right, Hargreaves holding, Gerrard rampaging, Crouch playing and allowing Rooney to get the ball facing goal.

When will this clowns in the press stop basing their judgements of players on World Cup tournaments? Judging on this World Cup, Ronaldinho would be distinctly average ffs.

[babu]

It was extremely hard for me to read past the second paragraph of that article.

Wayne & George the only 2 players from England that can be considered world class in the last 20 years?

if the rest of that article is true about the state of the English competitive league games i'll eat me own nut sack.

[weringo]

This article is a joke. Sol Campbell was not a world class player? Ashley Cole isnt a world class player? Michael Owen wasnt a world class player? David Beckham wasnt a world class player? The list goes on.....

[RAGE UK]

GERRARD (doesn't have world class ability in any particular area).

Some people talk right out of the -/-holes.
And I bet that frank fat lampard was the best player in the whole world cup to a stu.
Who I thought was kicked out for racism ?

[LFC #1]

This article is a joke. Sol Campbell was not a world class player? Ashley Cole isnt a world class player? Michael Owen wasnt a world class player? David Beckham wasnt a world class player? The list goes on.....

Depends what your definition of world class is? I think it means one of the top few players in their respective position. Too many players are described as 'world class' these days, when they clearly aren't. Players like Zidane, Ronaldo, Cannavaro, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Gerrard, Figo, Shevchenko and Messi are world class, players who'd walk into any team in the world.

David Beckham was never 'world class' as an overall player. He was world class at crossing or striking a dead ball, but he was never in a player like Figo's league IMO.

Cannavaro is a world class centre-half, Sol Campbell never quite got to that level.

The other two I'd agree with. Owen will never be rembered as world class htough because of all the injuries that have hampered him.

[stmichael]

What gets me is he says Gerrard isn't technical enough to be "world class" and then says Rooney is. Strange because when I see Rooney I think he is technically gifted but 95% of his game is about pace, power and dynamism just like Stevies.

[anti-hero]

I didnt even bother reading the whole article.

To be honest, when I saw the title of the topic I thought St Mike was having a laugh.

But anyone dumb enough to say that Steven Gerrard isnt world class has obviously got their head stuck far up Wayne Rooney's ass. Gerrard would be a benenfit to any team he plays in.

And that's not world class?

[flipmode]

"Not world class" sure this wasnt wrote on April Fools!!!!

[Mark 23]

I think the article does raise some good points, I like the way it is critical of the press coverage and the lack of questioning.  We need real indepth questioning and analysising, which due to time allowences you don't get on the television.  But this is what some of these foreign managers bring to the game (Rafa, Jose, Arsene, etc), fresh ideas and new methods, they are deemed to be far more technically advanced abroad.  Look at the England squad and it is full of world class players, I think Lampard has proven he is not as good as people believe.  The England squad is picked through politics, rumour has it, sponsers were keen to keep Beckham as Captain, it should never be this way.  The squad was full of players who were underused, under-utilised, and some quality players were left back home.

As for Gazza and Wazza being the only two world-class players we produced after Best, that is nonsense, we have produced a load, but think about it logically, players with the ability of those 3 come along every blue moon, same with countrys such as Spain, Italy, France, they don't produce Raul's, Del Piero's or Zindane's every year.  I think the author is harsh on Englan, assuming the grass is greener on the other side. (Although I think the author is ignorant of players such as Gerrard, Shearer, Roy Keane, Giggs, Scholes etc are world class at what they do/or did, but never really showed it on the world stage)

I think the journalist who has penned this article is just trying to differentiate himself from the flood of anti-sven/ronaldo press.  Rather than dwell on the obvious, he has looked at more underlying faults, although I feel they are exaggerated, they would still be avenues to explore.  It is somewhat naiive to for this journalist to act as though he has spotted something the FA, and all the Premiership clubs haven't.

  Incidentally today on the BBC website (the rumours & gossip bit), Graham Taylor is meant to be saying that that was our best chance up in smoke becuase of the influx of foreigners. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 152842.stm)

[GOAT]

Incidentally today on the BBC website (the rumours & gossip bit), Graham Taylor is meant to be saying that that was our best chance up in smoke becuase of the influx of foreigners. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 152842.stm)

Yeah, ive heard about that, now fans of clubs like west ham with english talent are having a go at clubs like us because they think all the foreigners caused england to lose the world cup. When will these people realise we dont care about England

[Mark 23]

Incidentally today on the BBC website (the rumours & gossip bit), Graham Taylor is meant to be saying that that was our best chance up in smoke becuase of the influx of foreigners. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 152842.stm)

Yeah, ive heard about that, now fans of clubs like west ham with english talent are having a go at clubs like us because they think all the foreigners caused england to lose the world cup. When will these people realise we dont care about England

I have lost faith with England after all the Sven carry on, but I am all for the development of English players but I am llberal in my views, and it should be the best player in each postion regardless of colour or creed.  Think what we paid for Gonzalez, and what it would cost for say the English equivalent, Stuart Downing who from what I have read and seen of the two, is inferior to Gonalez in everyway, but Downing would cost more.

[JC_81]

The article's a joke.  As others have stated this writer is looking for something that isn't there, based on shockingly wrong assumptions that Gazza and Rooney are the only truly world class players England has produced in the last 20 years.  I can think of far more than that.

To say that Lampard and Gerrard are not world class but are made to look so in the premiership due to being surrounded by technically superior foreign players may be true of the former, but correct me if I'm wrong but up until Benitez started bringing in quality players, it was Gerrard who carried a team of 'technically superior foreigners' in most premiership games.  This writer's refusal to place Gerrard on a higher level than Lampard highlights either his ignorance and poor understanding of the game or his bias.  Probably both I suspect.

At the end of the day he can dig as deep as he wants to look for the 'root of the problem' as far as England is concerned, but a simple change in management, captain and tinkering with the current personnel will make a hell of a difference to the England side

[Judge]

The article's a joke.  As others have stated this writer is looking for something that isn't there, based on shockingly wrong assumptions that Gazza and Rooney are the only truly world class players England has produced in the last 20 years.  I can think of far more than that.

To say that Lampard and Gerrard are not world class but are made to look so in the premiership due to being surrounded by technically superior foreign players may be true of the former, but correct me if I'm wrong but up until Benitez started bringing in quality players, it was Gerrard who carried a team of 'technically superior foreigners' in most premiership games.  This writer's refusal to place Gerrard on a higher level than Lampard highlights either his ignorance and poor understanding of the game or his bias.  Probably both I suspect.

At the end of the day he can dig as deep as he wants to look for the 'root of the problem' as far as England is concerned, but a simple change in management, captain and tinkering with the current personnel will make a hell of a difference to the England side

THANKS jc, thats not a bad post mate


as the egyptians would say ''tamam''

[48-1119859832]

[quote="GOAT"][/quote]
I think everyone has their own definition of World Class. Mine would be a player that consistantly carries out their role each week to a high standard. The Makelele's, Hamann's, John Terry's of the footballing world is what I would call World Class. I don't think being able to score spectaclur goals and pull of tricks and flicks makes a player world class.

As for Graham Taylor having a go at the top clubs for investing in foreign talent he has a valid point. Every League should have a fair amount of it's own players, but the problem with English players is that English clubs slap ridiculous price tags on the home grown talent, so someone like John Terry is rated at £50million for that much money you could buy three centre backs from the Spanish leagues, a centre midfielder and perhaps a winger and striker.

I also think that it's the fact that a lot of English, British and Irish players are so one dimensional and untechincal that foreign manager's won't sign them. If the British players learn't to mix up tempo, mix passes, show a strong mentality and so on there could well be a rise in English talent in the clubs run by foriegn managers.

[ivor_the_injun]

Yay! Another thread about what constitutes class!

It's almost a very good article, but to argue that only two English players in the last 20 years were "technically good enough to be among the world's best" is absolute folly. I admit there was a real lull in the 3 or 4 years following Italia 90, but players like Gerrard, Adams, Campbell, Ferdinand, Scholes, Beckham, Owen, Shearer and Sheringham all were among the best in their respective positions, and at their respective peaks would be/would have been an asset to any national side.

With the right coach in place, ie: one that has a clue and isn't prone to eccentric and alien tactical changes, England could be a genuine world force. If Venables was given the job today and the World Cup started again in a fortnight, we'd have every chance of going all the way. From Euro 96 onwards we've had the players available to make inroads on both the European and World stages, but tactical ineptness, injuries and - alas - sh*teness at penalties has really held us back.

A very average but organised Greece won Euro 2004, and the World Cup is about to be decided between a gunshy Italian team and a monstrously inconsistent French side. In one off games I'd back England to beat both of these sides, but not with Sven at the helm.