Liverpool FC Forum

[Cool Hand Luke]

crouch and zenden? i think a lot of people posting who they want to join our ranks will be dissapointed on here but we`ve got to let rafa get on with the job. the fella`s proved he knows what he`s doing beyond doubt.
the echo and radio merseyside aren`t the tabloid press and they are usually right 90% of the time.
dont forget crouch looks like he`s coming for five million and zendens on a free so rafa`s still got a war chest of around 25m+ so we can still expect some big names later on in the summer.

Spot on.

Players like Crouch and Zenden will be bought in to fill in the gaps in our squad, were not exactly breaking the bank. These players are already playing in the Premiership, even if they don’t play for the first 3 months they will be ready to come in and do a job.

I think most of the money will be spent in areas were we need first team players such as goalkeeper, centre back and right sided midfielder.

[parchpea]

Buying any player is gamble but Crouch has played most of his football career in Championship and not the Premiership. He was a complete loser at this level, firstly at Villa then at Southampton. He was thrown in when Beattie left and banged a few in towards the end of the season. His inclusion in the England squad is nothing to get excited about, just look at who else travelled. If you look at Crouch overall, through his whole career, then any deal, certainly a £5m deal is absolute madness. Not good enough.

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

Buying any player is gamble but Crouch has played most of his football career in Championship and not the Premiership. He was a complete loser at this level, firstly at Villa then at Southampton. He was thrown in when Beattie left and banged a few in towards the end of the season. His inclusion in the England squad is nothing to get excited about, just look at who else travelled. If you look at Crouch overall, through his whole career, then any deal, certainly a £5m deal is absolute madness. Not good enough.

i disagree mate. he`s never been an out and out goalscorer but he`s always been a tidy footballer.
i watched him against us playing for villa and his passing was superb, where he falls down is his goalscoring record but i dont think rafa is buying him for that reason (although 16 goals for a relegated side isnt awful). i think rafa wants someone to get onto the end of passes from the likes of gerrard and alonso and bring others into play.
he was excellent for southampton last season and he shone in a poor side were our strikers couldnt even shine in a good one!
i remember matt le tissier pulling someone up who doubted crouch`s ability, saying he had the best touch of any big man he has ever seen. its players like him rather than the ones who arrive with the big reputations that usually do well.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Ignoring the issue of quality, you are contradicting yourself sir.

In an earlier post you said

'For 5 MIL it isn't bad at all, he would be playing second fiddle to other stikers but there would be no great surprise or outrage if he were not in the team every week.Well we could always spend 10 Mil on some player from abroad who may or may not adjust, then cause trouble when he is not first choice, and no other club will take him of our hand so we will have to pay him wages for the next 4 years even though he doesn’t make the first team squad.'
then you said

'Crouch is a player who could seriously be considered to be in the squad when everyone is fit'

If you were Crouch and you knew you had a chance you could goto the WC, would you want to play second fiddle in the season before a WC? Wouldn't he kick up a fuss? SGE is going to pick players who are playing regularly, the only exceptions being established players such as Owen, Beckham etc who have proved their ability on the international stage.
Crouch is on the fringes of the England squad and at the very least needs to play regularly next season to stand any chance of getting into the squad. He would not be a regular at Liverpool if he was to arrive. 

You also went onto add:

'I think some people have this syndrome against unfashionable English players and some people have a syndrome against foreigners'

after saying

'Well we could always spend 10 Mil on some player from abroad who may or may not adjust, then cause trouble when he is not first choice, and no other club will take him of our hand so we will have to pay him wages for the next 4 years even though he doesn’t make the first team squad'

Isn't there a hint of that very syndrome you refer to in the above statement you made?[/B][B]

1) I think Crouch would take his chances, believing that he would get enough games and a taste of the Champions League which would enhance his chances. It would be worth the risk because he would have the chance to play for a club at the top end of the Premiership. But at the same time say a club like Middlesbrough or Tottenham came in and offered him first team football then he may be inclined to go there. But even if he weren’t playing regularly I really couldn’t see him kicking up a fuss as his position would be made clear from the start.

2) The main issue I was addressing when talking about foreigners was the issue of adaptability. There is always a risk from buying abroad especially when you are not buying from the top bracket, we have bitten too many times with the likes of Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou who we have been lumbered with. Would it be worth buying another striker who would need the time and would not be guaranteed to adapt, when we already have Moreintes and Cisse in the same boat.

[Lando_Griffin]

Ignoring the issue of quality, you are contradicting yourself sir.

In an earlier post you said

'For 5 MIL it isn't bad at all, he would be playing second fiddle to other stikers but there would be no great surprise or outrage if he were not in the team every week.Well we could always spend 10 Mil on some player from abroad who may or may not adjust, then cause trouble when he is not first choice, and no other club will take him of our hand so we will have to pay him wages for the next 4 years even though he doesn’t make the first team squad.'
then you said

'Crouch is a player who could seriously be considered to be in the squad when everyone is fit'

If you were Crouch and you knew you had a chance you could goto the WC, would you want to play second fiddle in the season before a WC? Wouldn't he kick up a fuss? SGE is going to pick players who are playing regularly, the only exceptions being established players such as Owen, Beckham etc who have proved their ability on the international stage.
Crouch is on the fringes of the England squad and at the very least needs to play regularly next season to stand any chance of getting into the squad. He would not be a regular at Liverpool if he was to arrive. 

You also went onto add:

'I think some people have this syndrome against unfashionable English players and some people have a syndrome against foreigners'

after saying

'Well we could always spend 10 Mil on some player from abroad who may or may not adjust, then cause trouble when he is not first choice, and no other club will take him of our hand so we will have to pay him wages for the next 4 years even though he doesn’t make the first team squad'

Isn't there a hint of that very syndrome you refer to in the above statement you made?[/B][B]

1) I think Crouch would take his chances, believing that he would get enough games and a taste of the Champions League which would enhance his chances. It would be worth the risk because he would have the chance to play for a club at the top end of the Premiership. But at the same time say a club like Middlesbrough or Tottenham came in and offered him first team football then he may be inclined to go there. But even if he weren’t playing regularly I really couldn’t see him kicking up a fuss as his position would be made clear from the start.

2) The main issue I was addressing when talking about foreigners was the issue of adaptability. There is always a risk from buying abroad especially when you are not buying from the top bracket, we have bitten too many times with the likes of Diouf, Diao and Cheyrou who we have been lumbered with. Would it be worth buying another striker who would need the time and would not be guaranteed to adapt, when we already have Moreintes and Cisse in the same boat.

Class comment, matey. Crouch (who I personally don't rate highly!!!) would be purely a 3rd/4th/5th stiker, who could add a new dimension to our play, and not need a year to adapt to the prem. At the minute, our 1st team striker is I  believe 6ft, and are up against defences of 6'.0"-6'-5". Crouch would add some aerial threat (which we lack upfront badly). Skill for skill, he isn't a Pele, but then neither is Koller, and his partnership with Baros for the Czechs is/was deadly. Im actually coming around to the idea of Crouch playing for us!!!!!!!!!

[Lando_Griffin]

I meant our tallest striker is 6ft-ish!!!!! (The fosters has been flowing tonight, friends!!!!!):D

[marcus.c]

Crouch is a raw talent but I do not think he will fit into the squad. He is more of a KP sort of player. We do not have the time to develop him. What we need is someone that has been proven. We need players that have been with top clubs, tasted glory and have the passion for more glory.   

I think RB would be thinking of getting a proven goal scorer, someone like Fernando Torres would fit the bill. He is fast, strong, skillful and most important he can score goals from anywhere. I personally rate him very highly.

If Eto has really fallen out with his manager as what the newspapers have reported. I would say lets make an attempt to get Eto, he is extremely quick and have an eye for goal.

[Paul C]

I'm in shick that Rafa is looking at this muppet, I hope he proves me wrong if he moves to Anfield, I used to work with a Villa fan who just used to take the p155 out of Crouch all the time and the Villa fans gave him a nickname of 'Threads' cos he's tall and skinny, we've already got 2 aerial players in Cisse and Morientes so personally I'd like to see a player thats good on the ground like Owen was,

[KOPSTER]

no crouch! just a waste, he cant play

[dxavier]

Again, I am left in shock. Why does everyone have to immediately criticise because Crouch looks like a lanky pole? I remember clearly that Arsenal Fans had the same thoughts about Kanu when he arrived and he turned out to be amazing. If anyone had actually seen him play, they would realise that Crouch is a very similar player to Kanu and unlike Kanu, he will probably still want to give his all every week instead of going off the boil the minute he has made a name for himself as Kanu did. Crouch has superior ability in the air and very good ball control. Benitez is also a manager who we now love and respect and I think it is out of order that you all doubt Crouch so much. I wonder if we do sign him, how many of you will be back on here eating humble pie when Crouch scores more goals than Baros did this season. Oh dear, I stand corrected, Crouch already did score more goals than Baros did this season and in fact (Baros - 13, Crouch -16), he scored more than any Liverpool player did this season, yet, everyone here is scared of getting a player who has scored more than our three joint top scorers of Baros, Gerrard and Garcia. I hate when people get on the band wagon to have a go at a player without the facts. If he came to Liverpool and was a third choice striker behind Cisse and Morientes, I would be very happy with 16 goals from him.

[marcus.c]

Again, I am left in shock. Why does everyone have to immediately criticise because Crouch looks like a lanky pole? I remember clearly that Arsenal Fans had the same thoughts about Kanu when he arrived and he turned out to be amazing. If anyone had actually seen him play, they would realise that Crouch is a very similar player to Kanu and unlike Kanu, he will probably still want to give his all every week instead of going off the boil the minute he has made a name for himself as Kanu did. Crouch has superior ability in the air and very good ball control. Benitez is also a manager who we now love and respect and I think it is out of order that you all doubt Crouch so much. I wonder if we do sign him, how many of you will be back on here eating humble pie when Crouch scores more goals than Baros did this season. Oh dear, I stand corrected, Crouch already did score more goals than Baros did this season and in fact (Baros - 13, Crouch -16), he scored more than any Liverpool player did this season, yet, everyone here is scared of getting a player who has scored more than our three joint top scorers of Baros, Gerrard and Garcia. I hate when people get on the band wagon to have a go at a player without the facts. If he came to Liverpool and was a third choice striker behind Cisse and Morientes, I would be very happy with 16 goals from him.

First of all, I believe all Liverpool fans, well at least most of Liverpool fans are just being rational and plain honest here. The majority of us simply want a player that has proven himself on the international stage.

We do not want to wait and see whether the player prove to be good or not. We want a player that has been proven excellent ! It is just as simple as that.

Don't be mistaken but Crouch is certainly not Kanu. Nwankwo Kanu made his name while he was with Ajax in 1995, where he was one of the dominant attacking players which brought the team the Dutch League as well as the Champions League.

A year later he inspired his Nigerian teammates to win the Olympics Gold in Atlanta.

He moved onto Inter Milan, only to discover that he had a heart defect and required surgery. He joined Arsenal and there won 2 Premier League titles and 2 FA Cups, despite not having the form he was before his surgery

He has won the U-17 FIFA World Cup, Nigerian League, Dutch League 3 times, Dutch Supercup twice, European Supercup, Interncontinental Cup, UEFA Champions League, Olympic Games, Uefa cup and voted African footballer of the year.

He won all these before going to Arsenal. When Kanu left for Arsenal, the whole world all know what a classy player he is. The only thing that worried the Arsenal fans was his heart problem.

Arsenal was building a team of Champions, what they were looking for are players that have won glory and proven themselves. Within five years, Arsenal won the EPL title and the FA cup.

Kanu certainly has an important role there. Again, Crouch is no where near Kanu. The facts are all there.

Kanu left for Arsenal with a reputation he has made for himself. He was a proven player during his time at Ajax and Inter.

Second, there is no comparison between Crouch and Baros. It is because Baros is also not good enough. Baros wasn't bought by RB. The fact that Baros is still in the team, was because of Owen's departure. Benitez coming from a Spanish back ground, having seen the likes of Aimer, Ronaldo, Figo etc will be searching for a player that has the same sort of pedigree.

And I believe, Baros will certainly leave next season. It does not matter whether Crouch scored more goals then Baros. What difference does it make? Crouch scored 16 and Baros 13? We need a player that can put the ball in the net regularly. We are looking for a striker that has the ability to score 20 or more times in a season.

Third, Liverpool does not need a player to come in and wants to be a third choice striker. Liverpool wants a striker to come in and be the first choice.

The reason why RB is brining in so many Spanish players is because he wants to impart the way Spanish players play football. The skill and technical area.

The conclusion is, Crouch is no where near Kanu status, Crouch is at most a little better then Baros (if you are looking at goals scored) and Crouch certainly would not make it to the first team.

[KOPSTER]

The conclusion is, Crouch is no where near Kanu status, Crouch is at most a little better then Baros (if you are looking at goals scored) and Crouch certainly would not make it to the first team.

[dxavier]

Marcus.c 

I do not agree with you at all on several points.

Firstly -  Your comment..........
"We do not want to wait and see whether the player prove to be good or not. We want a player that has been proven excellent ! It is just as simple as that."

Absolute rubbish. Who do you support, Real Madrid or Chelsea?? They are the only team interested in buying players who have proven to be excellent at top prices. Yes, we won the Champions League but we need several new players and if we follow your lead, we will buy Torres for £20mil or perhaps Wright-Phillips for the same price and that will be it for our tranfsers??? Yes, we have had our fingers burnt by poor signings who are suppose to be players of the future but this man is not Houllier or Ferguson. He made a mistake with Nunez, I grant you that but I would prefer if he went out and got players at good prices who he knows will turn out to be amazing.  If we could get five or six players for £30million we could challange for the title rather than buying one expensive player. Remember, Arsenal spent nothing much on Senderos and Toure, approx, £5mil on Vieria, £10mil on Henry, £7mil on Pires, £5mil on Ljunberg. Would you be against having players of that quality who hadn't completely made a name for themselves for those prices?

Secondly............ Your Comment..........

“……..Kanu certainly has an important role there. Again, Crouch is no where near Kanu. The facts are all there.”

Again that is rubbish. So what if Kanu has been part of many successful teams and Crouch hasn’t been? Are you saying that Smicer or Kewell are better players than Shaun Wright-Phillips because they have been part of a successful teams when he has not been? What kind of point is that. Crouch is young and has a lot to learn, but for a striker who scores 16 goals in the Premiership and still has a lot to learn, what could he become? In fact, maybe your right, perhaps he will end up scoring 30 goals a season when Kanu has never been a prolific goal scorer. I just think it is very sad that you would prefer not to use your obvious knowledge of football to judge a player and instead decide to disregard a player because his movements and appearance are not visually classic.

Thirdly…………Your Comment

“Third, Liverpool does not need a player to come in and wants to be a third choice striker. Liverpool wants a striker to come in and be the first choice.

What nonsense is that. Any player with any intelligence wants to be first choice but players do realise that that is not always going to be the case. Do you think Baros joined Liverpool thinking he is going to be first choice? If Crouch comes in, he will realise he is third choice and then it is up to him to work hard and take his chance should he get a game.

I admit, I don’t get starry eyed about the potential of Crouch playing for LFC, but I HAVE actually watched him play and I am very surprised with his skill, smooth touch and ability in the air. Do you think David “Big Mouth, I love seeing myself talking on Sky Sports every day” O’Leary is really happy about letting him go. His strikers couldn’t score a goal if they tried and if he wasn’t so obsessed with seeing a “Cool” looking striker upfront like you, then maybe he would see he had a good player on his hands. Also, if you disagree so much with Crouch, it means you doubt Benitez’s ability to judge a players abilities and to be honest, unlike my thoughts about Houllier, I trust Benitez completely.

[stmichael]

Peter Crouch.. hmmm about a year ago I would've laughed my a$$ off if we ever were to be mentioned in the same sentence as that 'beanstalk' but after this season I'm not any where near as 'prejudiced' against the guy as I was. In our dreadful away game at St. Marys he played an absolute blinder. Created one. Scored one. Combined with loads of nice first touches and tricky flick-on's. That baffled me.
I then saw him do the exact same game after game after game.

That doesn't make any Summer I know, but I for one had to revise my fairly one-sided opinion of the lad.

Part of me thinks the anti Crouch thing is because he is 6'7" and does not look like a conventional footballer. As the way I see it he has been as successful as Andy Johnson this year, and huge concerns were not voiced here about our apparent interest.

He scored more than any of our strikers this year, in a relegated team (and most goals were from open play). He also scored some beauties - the one against Boro I seem to remember. he also did not look out of place in the England team the other day, playing a lovely through ball through to Owen.

If he signs for us he'll have my support throughout his Liverpool career, and I hope he will prove his detractors wrong!

[Adebisi]

That was a good point made about the Koller/Baros partnership, I'd  say Crouch could be a similar player to Koller though perhaps not as strong at the moment but that could be worked on. Both seem to be very silky for their size and some teams find it hard to defend against a forward of such stature, teams will sit deep due to fear of the long ball.

If Baros stays then could be potentially fruitful partnership (to bring on as two subs for last 20 min )

But if not Crouch then we should just sign Koller