Liverpool FC Forum

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

someone called in to the LFC TV after match phone in show and made what i thought was a good point.
he said all our defenders individually are good players but they struggle as a unit to concentrate for 90 minutes.
at least one of our back 4 will switch off at some point in a game, wether it`s losing a marker at a corner or failing to track a runner or a sloppy back pass or whatever but at some point one of them will f##k up.
they seem to take turns in f##king up as well, it`s not one particular player making mistakes all the time, one game player X makes a mistake, the next game it`s player Y and the game after that it`s player Z.

[Penguins]

With maybe the exception of Carra and Skrtel our defenders aren't really defense first players.
Agger is so overrated it isn't even funny. Yes, he is a very good footballer and has a good pass and shoot in him but a very good defender he is not.
Johnson and Enrique are the same both can have been playing further up the field on occassions and often goes on the offensive, which they are pretty
good at for being defenders. But both loose their marking way too often and just doesn't follow their main as well as they should.

Just think when we had Hyppia, Carra, Finnan and Risse. All of them were defence 1st players. Now it is the opposite with offence 1st defenders.

[mart]

Imo its got a lot to do with how we play. The same defense looked very solid last season. We are very naive defensively. Decent teams just soak up our pressure and hit us on the counter.

[ycsatbjywtbiastkamb]

With maybe the exception of Carra and Skrtel our defenders aren't really defense first players.
Agger is so overrated it isn't even funny. Yes, he is a very good footballer and has a good pass and shoot in him but a very good defender he is not.
Johnson and Enrique are the same both can have been playing further up the field on occassions and often goes on the offensive, which they are pretty
good at for being defenders. But both loose their marking way too often and just doesn't follow their main as well as they should.

Just think when we had Hyppia, Carra, Finnan and Risse. All of them were defence 1st players. Now it is the opposite with offence 1st defenders.

i think thats a good point mate, our two fullbacks especially are more renowned for their attacking abilities than their defensive qualities.
add to that an open style in terms of playing philosophy and a formation that leaves you a man short across the middle of the park and it all adds up to a bigger problem.
something has got to change, we cant keep shipping goals at an average of 2 a game

[Penguins]

Like what?

You know as well as I that Rodgers won't change his style.

[Penguins]

Like what?

You know as well as I that Rodgers won't change his style.

[Thommo's perm]

United went through a similar situation some years ago with purple nose talking about "individual errrors" costing them. We are suffering because of these same errors, Skrtel being in the limelight this season as well as Reina. A blip, a dip in confidence, just one of those things, nature taking its course?

[mart]

Like what?

You know as well as I that Rodgers won't change his style.

Maybe he can learn that its not smart to have the centrebacks drop deep while the midfield press high and our fullbacks act as wingers?
Maybe he can learn that Allen is not a DM, and that we really need Lucas when we have no other DM.
Maybe he will realise that Carra and Skrtel (along with most of the team) does not have the technical ability of Xavi and Messi so we should stop playing a passing game in our own half.

The main problem is that we look way too much at individual errors, but imo the problem is a lack of defensive organisation. We dont defend as a team, and we are very naive defensively. I'm sad to say i think Carra makes matters worse as he tends to drop too deep and leaves a huge gap between the defense and the midfield that any attackers love to exploit. Instead of closing down the attacker as we should, we just back towards our own goal and give the attackers a good chance to shoot right outside our penalty area.

[red till i die!!]

the problem is the system imo.
in a 4-4-2 if your fullbacks overlap the winger then its the winger who falls back to cover. when johnson and enrique overlap there is no one dropping back in this system. what we get is the wingers just continue alongside them. gerrard and allen just sit in front of the back 2 now while hendo pushes (again centrally) in to support the front 3. one sloppy pass and we lose it and are in a position to be caught like what happened for the second goal tonight when johnson failed to get back and no one else picked up his man. for the first goal tonight we also got caught short out wide and hulk was allowed to walk into the space between the back 2 and mid 2 and basically have a free pop unchallenged.
we have a decent defense but they are not suited to this system they are being asked to play and we too often get caught with our pants down.

[Thommo's perm]

the problem is the system imo.
in a 4-4-2 if your fullbacks overlap the winger then its the winger who falls back to cover. when johnson and enrique overlap there is no one dropping back in this system. what we get is the wingers just continue alongside them. gerrard and allen just sit in front of the back 2 now while hendo pushes (again centrally) in to support the front 3. one sloppy pass and we lose it and are in a position to be caught like what happened for the second goal tonight when johnson failed to get back and no one else picked up his man. for the first goal tonight we also got caught short out wide and hulk was allowed to walk into the space between the back 2 and mid 2 and basically have a free pop unchallenged.
we have a decent defense but they are not suited to this system they are being asked to play and we too often get caught with our pants down.

Johnson was absolute dogsh'ite on monday but he was much improved tonight
However if you watch their second goal again Johnson stood watching as the ball went past and the defender he hadnt spotted came in from behind him and slotted the ball. Schoolboy error unworthy of an international...

[Kenny Kan]

A case for the defence - Major overhaul?

No, not yet.

I'd point my finger at the system employed first. Allen DM, Lucas DM either of which are part of a 3 man midfield.

There's your problem. Teams waltz straight through our midfield  like incredible Hulk showed tonight.

[only me]

the problem is the system imo.
in a 4-4-2 if your fullbacks overlap the winger then its the winger who falls back to cover. when johnson and enrique overlap there is no one dropping back in this system. what we get is the wingers just continue alongside them. gerrard and allen just sit in front of the back 2 now while hendo pushes (again centrally) in to support the front 3. one sloppy pass and we lose it and are in a position to be caught like what happened for the second goal tonight when johnson failed to get back and no one else picked up his man. for the first goal tonight we also got caught short out wide and hulk was allowed to walk into the space between the back 2 and mid 2 and basically have a free pop unchallenged.
we have a decent defense but they are not suited to this system they are being asked to play and we too often get caught with our pants down.

Johnson was absolute dogsh'ite on monday but he was much improved tonight
However if you watch their second goal again Johnson stood watching as the ball went past and the defender he hadnt spotted came in from behind him and slotted the ball. Schoolboy error unworthy of an international...

Johnson is not a good defender ,never was never will ,he is admired for his run's forward but his defending is pathetic ,kinda opposite of Enrique which is a tough almost impossible to passthrough defender but is pretty limited in his run forward ,Our CB's are shaky as well ,Agger again good going forward and developing play from behind but lacks that intimidation feature ,Skertle is a goat rapist his one year success last year is just a fluke. Our DM's are also inconsistent ,neither Lucas nor Allen really swept the field for consecutive games.

[LFC1990]

A case for the defence - Major overhaul?

No, not yet.

I'd point my finger at the system employed first. Allen DM, Lucas DM either of which are part of a 3 man midfield.

There's your problem. Teams waltz straight through our midfield  like incredible Hulk showed tonight.

Bang on.

Mascherano instead of Allen and we concede at least half of what we have this year. Masch was a monster took Kaka out of the game in 2007. Hasnt been replaced properly.

Diame of West ham would suit us down to the ground. With a 3m buy out clause why we never bought him is laughable

[stmichael]

the under 21's just drew 3-3 with west ham. all three goals conceded came from set pieces. it's a problem that is incessant within the club at every level. our defending from set pieces is comical at times.

as i said in the match thread yesterday we've never replaced hyypia. we need a leader at the back who is also dominant in the air. if skrtel leaves (which is highly likely) you can make that two. a left back is also required as enrique is better further forward and robinson is not ready yet.

[Pig Catcher]

We had no problem defending set pieces last year and we are using the same defenders this year so I don’t think finding the new Hyypia is so vital to improve from set pieces. The difference is that last year in Steve Clarke we had a coach who specialises in defensive work whether it is from set pieces or open play. I think Rodgers main defensive strategy is to keep possession of the ball. We have looked really disorganised when defending set pieces and that’s something that can be improved on the training ground.